[DPR Mafia] Call-Your-Shot Mafia- Points being posted...

[Alys Kinch]

FDM, it's role fishing because that's the picture he wants painted.  He screwed up now he needs to deflect attention. Or rather deflecting attention is the point of his play. H might be asking for it.

 

What I don't see is how he ever thought it would help him to say OMG I have a role but I can't tell you anything else when he should have said anything but the role. I also have an issue with Kivam defending that he did it. Kivam may be distracted, but he sees much. And he ought to see that even unknown role names can give info that might not need to be given.

 

Maybe I shouldn't have agreed with Pandy.  I thought he was fishing for something and I have nothing to hide and had no problem being the guinea pig.

In my experience, that kind of thing usually results in a player being targeted instead of the original.  It’s an issue especially since panda has revealed, false or not.  I figure if anyone is going to target him tonight, it will be deflected. Good or bad.  So really what we have is a role name reveal that tells us nothing about the player, a play that suggests someone else may pay for panda, and a person who claims to be townie but won’t explain his actions. RE: Please someone try to kill me already.

 

 

(If I die tonight, so be it, at least my death will gain the town some useful info.)

Please people note that he is asking for someone to target him by the reveal and comments such as this.

 

 

I'd get out the rifle but i honestly think we're all a little rusty.

I agree. I’m feeling it. More than a year since I’ve played. *shakes head*

 

Alys.. I may have FOS Far for that.. and you after for your defence of it.. but I did not vote.

You know me, Nae. Some call it suspicious, but I talk about anything that catches my eye. And that did, so I typed about it.

 

This game is already one of the most interesting one's I've been in and it's day one Oo

Welcome to the reason we got addicted.  :D

 

Miss me!

Only when I am trying to compile reasons to kill you and you are not online to respond!

 

[Naeann]

Alys... I remember in one of my earlier games... the first I ever did with the alt accounts.. that I got accused of being you.  I know you respond to everything that catches your eye... so do I.

 

I am laughing that you also seem to find Far suspicious now.  Might be stupid but it's not enough yet to make me vote her... in part because it's been so long since either of you played that I kinda wanna keep you both around for now.  It was getting pretty sad when I was considrered one of the oldbies of mafia.

[Tynaal Consen]

So far the main focus of everything is on Pandy's "reveal". Everyone is just kinda going on that atm. Wouldnt it be an easy situation for teh mafia to hide in? Arguing the point all the time, and so "wasting" day without really bringing suspicion upon them?

[DPR]

Put your big boy/girl panties on and come run with the big dogs.

 

That one get's framed. The crack about Mynd was good, so I was already laughing, but this almost had me go on a Photobucket binge. Almost...heh

[Kivam]

Ok, I'll start by saying I don't trust any of you. Remotely. That goes without saying.

 

I can understand the "jolly banter" etc. from the older members of the group reminiscing about the good old days etc., but its ideal cover for faint gambits. Pandy's reveal makes me slightly uneasy - I'm trying to think why he would reveal that early, and am clearly missing something. Kivam's claiming that everybody saw Pandy role before he stated means he's either making it up or is a lot sharper than me for one (probably the case, but not necessarily).

 

Go on Kivam, what prompted you to think Pandy had a role?

 

For one thing, I think DPR said in the signup thread that everyone would have a role.   ;D

 

Secondarily . . . lets see.

 

He says "I need someone to agree with me, can't say why"

 

Wombat does it.

 

And that's the end of it.  No further discussion, no joke about the agreement, no "gotcha, now you're my slave for a week."  Just "what I needed to happen happened, lets move on"

 

That screams "I have a role".  And what I meant by saying "I don't understand why he didn't cover it better" - he should have done something, anything, to create an explanation other than "I needed that to happen for my role."

 

BTW, it's pretty clear to me that Pandy is not mafia (he may or may not be scum, but he's definitely not mafia).  If his role requires someone else to trigger an ability (which it apparently does), and he was on a team to start with, he'd just have a teammate slip in "I agree" if nobody else happened to say it during the day.  No reason not to, really - take your chances on someone naturally agreeing with you, and if it doesn't happen, then the teammate steps up.

 

That said, it also seems as though Pandy has a recruiting role.  That makes him very useful if he's a townie, and very dangerous if he isn't.  People with the appropriate roles can weigh what to do with that uncertainty.

 

 

[WWWwombat]

The thing about someone agreeing could be contingent on it not being a team member agreeing with you in order to prevent abuse.

[Kivam]

Gentlemen (and Ladies) (and Ed  :P), I'm about to suggest something I typically would argue vehemently against.

 

It's time for a mass role reveal.

 

No, not details.  But role names.  Here's why.

 

We've been given a list of roles.  Among them are a few scum/solo win roles that can either kill a large number of townies/mafia, or can be turned into townies and only go after mafia:

 

All of the possible roles are listed below (all but three pulled from the mafia wiki). These roles may or may not be featured in the game, but if it's not on the list, it won't be in the game. Study the roles so that you can pick them off or have an idea of how you would use it if you get it.

 

Cop

Doctor

Vigilante

Mason Group

Serial Killer

Roleblocker

Double Voter

Voteless Player

Socialite

Tree Stump

Jail Keeper

Evangelist

Backup

Governor

Firefighter

Arsonist

Psychiatrist

Psycho

Posion Doctor

Poisoner

Fortune Teller

Traitor

 

The arsonist can be turned by the firefighter.  The Psycho can be saved by the shrink.  The list has 22 roles, in a game with 21 players - and one of our players (who I think could be a key townie, if I'm reading his role correctly) has already revealed. In these circumstances, I think a mass role reveal helps far more than it hurts.  Needless to say, our cop and doc should lie about their roles.  Any other townie should tell the truth.

 

And we should let Random.com generate the reveal order, so that we might force the mafia/solo wins into claiming a role that someone else has if they end up listed for an early reveal.

 

Thoughts?

[Kivam]

The thing about someone agreeing could be contingent on it not being a team member agreeing with you in order to prevent abuse.

 

Meh - DPR doesn't think that far ahead in his role design  :P, and "teammate agreement" can be dangerous, anyway (creates links if he's ever killed and role details are revealed), so I doubt Wes would forbid it in any event.  Like anything else, it's a play, with risks and benefits

[Talmanes]

I'm just saying that when I was reading up on all the roles, I came across one (cannot remember which), that said if you can make someone say a certain phrase, usually without saying it, then you would become invincible at night. This may not be word for word, but it sounds to me like what Pandy was doing.

 

Also wouldn't a mass role reveal kind of ruin the whole point of this game? I mean we are supposed to not only predict our moves, but guess people's roles.

[Talya]

Unfortunately I have seen Pandy reveal on day one before for no real reason, I think he was a townie then, not that that means anything. I've noticed in other games how quick it is for people to claim roles when there has been no reason too.

 

Pandy to me is  abit like Mynd, he does things which disrupt it, mainly for his own means, but it can then cause problems throughout the game.

 

I can also say I do not like role reveals. I would imagine that people were more likely to lie anyway, they wouldn't want people knowing what they have, or even what they don't have. So I'm not so sure that it woulod help us at all. In fact it is more likely to cause more disruption!

[WWWwombat]

I don't know about the mass reveal.  I've never seen someone attempt to game the setup before so idk how it turns out usually.

[Alys Kinch]

Arguing the point all the time, and so "wasting" day without really bringing suspicion upon them?

Might be more valid if days were timed. But as long as people keep throwing out fodder, we might as well peruse it.

 

I am laughing that you also seem to find Far suspicious now

I don’t trust anyone yet. If there is someone I’m not looking at atm, it’s because they haven’t been here posting.

 

That said, it also seems as though Pandy has a recruiting role.  That makes him very useful if he's a townie, and very dangerous if he isn't.  People with the appropriate roles can weigh what to do with that uncertainty.

Rather thinking that might be a problem over here. It seems like a protection for himself action to his role.

 

It's time for a mass role reveal. …  The list has 22 roles, in a game with 21 players –

That’s never, ever been a good idea. I’ve never seen it work. Also, I think one (or more) of the roles are doubled.

 

And we should let Random.com generate the reveal order, so that we might force the mafia/solo wins into claiming a role that someone else has if they end up listed for an early reveal.

And how does that work with the doctors and healers fake reveal thing? Kivy, you are better than that.

 

[Liathiana]

I don't think a mass reveal is a good idea at all. I think most likely this is a ploy to get Kivam points :P

[Barmacral]

Kivam, this role reveal idea of yours is really sloppy, which is unlike you. It is VERY easy for people to lie and get away with it, especially since you are encouraging some of the town to lie (which, while logical, defeats the point of a mass reveal).

[Reyoru]

Thank you Kivam for the explanation.

 

Role revealing? I agree with with Barm ^^, people can lie very easily and no one would be any the wiser.

[Kivam]

Doc and cop will lie.  Scum (mafia and solo wins) will lie.  Townies will tell the truth.

 

Nobody will claim Mason who isn't a Mason, unless we have multiple mason groups (finder can confirm) or Mafia are dumb enough to all claim mason as a team (easily caught by finder).  So . . . I'd expect to see multiple backup, double voter, etc. claims.  There'll only be one firefighter, one shrink, etc. (they should tell the truth, and get doc protection).  It'll significantly narrow the field for these guys in terms of who to target - for the cop, too.  Bottom line, it'll help more than it hurts.

 

[Alys Kinch]

Kudos to me for saying that point first, Rey! Barms so can't have the points for it. *glares*

 

Thanks for agreeing though. :P

[Reyoru]

Sorry Alys, credit to you to  ;D

[Alys Kinch]

Doc and cop will lie.  Scum (mafia and solo wins) will lie.  Townies will tell the truth.

 

Nobody will claim Mason who isn't a Mason, unless we have multiple mason groups (finder can confirm) or Mafia are dumb enough to all claim mason as a team (easily caught by finder).  So . . . I'd expect to see multiple backup, double voter, etc. claims.  There'll only be one firefighter, one shrink, etc. (they should tell the truth, and get doc protection).  It'll significantly narrow the field for these guys in terms of who to target - for the cop, too.  Bottom line, it'll help more than it hurts.

 

 

While at the same time it completely narrows the field of who the mafia has to hit to take out the doc and healer... And makes it more likely that we'd hit the same... And the firefighter, psychiatrist, etc are docs of a sort too. No way taking out all of our help by lumping them in with the mafia and/or forcing them to reveal is going to help us.

[Verbal32]

Like Barm said, making townies lie is only going to hurt us in the long run.  The firefighter would narrow down their list....probably true, but like Alys said, it does the same for the mafia.

 

I can't believe you actually want a mass reveal.  Methinks it's your called shot to sacrifice yourself for a mafia team win by setting up a buffet for them.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Kivam[/glow]

[Alys Kinch]

Kivam Gambit 2? With Kivam as the initial target?

 

I also thought his goal might be to get himself killed. (Should you all be playing Kivam's McCarthy game??) The fact that it seems so obvious presents WIFOM, but yeah. Is he blatently trying to get us to knee jerk lynch him or is he trying to get us to think he wants us to do that? And that's why WIFOM pisses me off.

[Kivam]

Meh.

 

 

l------------l

l ALL OF YOU l

lARE THINKINGl

l  HERE    l

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I'm thinking here.

[Reyoru]

^^ No doubt. You've fallen outside the box  ;D

[Kivam]

Dammit!  That was supposed to format like this:

 

Meh.

 

 

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l ALL OF YOU    l

lARE THINKING l

l   HERE               l

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I'm thinking here.

[Alys Kinch]

And he bumped his head.

 

Sorry, box thinker here. You still haven't proposed a way out of the conundrum I previously stated. You want your plan, help us to see why it might work.