Hinderstap Situation (spoilers and speculation)

[dholm]

I seriously doubt Fain would bother setting something like Hinderstap up.

[water_seeker]

I seriously doubt Fain would bother setting something like Hinderstap up.

 

It's Hinderstap specifically that makes me skeptical that it was him.  I could see him doing something like that, but Hinderstap seems too random.

[mikael]

Not that its unlikely that the Fain theory is wrong, but testing ones abilities and causing plenty of pain at the same time should be enough of a motive no? Its been said earlier that he wasnt really sure of his abilities so it would make sense for him to experiment since its basically uncharted territory.

[water_seeker]

I guess, but Hinderstap seems so...out of the way.

[bronnt]

I guess, but Hinderstap seems so...out of the way.

 

Fain's mental instability can explain away any of the random decisions he makes.  He hasn't exactly been following a logical plan since TGH.

[water_seeker]

Terrorizing the Two Rivers to draw Rand to him was a logical plan.  It just brought the wrong person.  Ambushing Rand in Far Madding was logical since there shouldn't have been any OP access and the apartment was close quarters...good for knives, but not for swords.

 

He's crazy, but even crazy people can have moments of lucidity.  He's crazy, but he's driven towards destroying Rand.

[Rongomai]

Surely Hinderstrap will come up in the next book or the last at least, well I hope so, I do not like questions unanswered, Why write about the effort Matt put in to save Delarn and have Matt comment about dying on the battle field is one thing but to die here another, showing his dedication to his men and yet not once asking where or how his other Redarms are, he could have asked Joline when they went to the inn, could have commented to Thom when they were camped as to why he wanted to go back to Hinderstrap, He could have asked the Mayor when they went back, I will be a little peeved if it doesn't come up again,.... something I also saw on another post about Hinderstrap being able to give Rand the option of the quote, "To live you must Die"

[Disco]

Some good theories here, I'll just be pissed if this is just a random page-filling event. Even if it is Balefire (which I think is a good theory) I still am unsure if it needed to be in there.

 

Fain though, now THAT makes sense.  Nice first post.  Got any more like them?

[lillcheese]

Although the Fain idea has a lot of merit, as someone else mentioned, Hinderstap had the lace chapter icon.  That seems to directly point at bubble of evil (DO efforts at destroying pattern) or BF.  I lean toward the bubble simply because Hinderstap is so remote from all known BF uses & users.

 

Unless, I don't recall Fain ever advancing a "destroy the pattern" motive or plan. 

 

 

[Arath Faringal]

I like the Fain idea, but I don't think the timing fits.  According to the Mayor of Hinderstrap, it all started happening shortly after the Bowl of Winds was used.  After the weather broke, but before the snows came.  Fain was in Cairhien giving Rand his second side wound just days before that.  Despite his ability to use the ways safely, I doubt he would be able to get to Hinderstrap in time.  Nor would he have a reason to.

 

If Hinderstrap had been located much further to the west, I'd be more inclined to believe it was Fain. 

[Charles Mahan]

Could be related to the OP anomaly which conincided with the abuse of the bowl of the winds.  Perhaps the problems with the OP were a manifestation of damage to the pattern in the local region.  The affect was thought to be fairly widespread around the Kin's compound.  Perhaps it was widespread enough to cover Hinderstap.  Perhaps other anomalies abound within this region we just haven't heard about yet.

[Dreamwalker]

Could be related to the OP anomaly which conincided with the abuse of the bowl of the winds.  Perhaps the problems with the OP were a manifestation of damage to the pattern in the local region.  The affect was thought to be fairly widespread around the Kin's compound.  Perhaps it was widespread enough to cover Hinderstap.  Perhaps other anomalies abound within this region we just haven't heard about yet.

 

I think you're close, but I suggest a slightly different cause. I think it probably is damage to the pattern like you say, but not from the use of the Bowl of the winds; rather from the gateway that Elayne unraveled badly and blew up on that same day. (That could have been what you were referring too though, but I'm not sure from the way you wrote it). That caused the power to behave oddly for channelers in the area for weeks, made damane sick, made the OP difficult to control, etc. If it was bad enough to majorly mess up the OP, I would not be at all surprised if it also messed with the pattern.

[Charles Mahan]

I thought the consensus opinion was that Elayne had difficulty unravelling the gateway at least in part because the OP was already acting wonky? The misuse of the Bowl of Winds, which was never intended to affect the global climate, and was meant to be used by men and woment working together, is the most likely cause of the goofiness.  Wasn't it mentioned recently that that weirdness was passing?  Probably a result of the self healing nature of the pattern.  Now that I think about it, this is an decent arguement against my previous supposition.  We have evidence that the Bowl induced damage is largely healed, and yet Hinderstap is still fubar.

[Dreamwalker]

I'd always attributed it to the unraveling explosion, but I've done some more research and I think you're right, it was the bowl.

 

As far as explaining Hinderstap - it may or may not be related. I kind of think in the end it's not going to be tied to a particular event, it's just going to be one of the bubbles of evil/unraveling of the pattern that seem to be happening all over the place as we approach TG.

[Dakota]

I thought the consensus opinion was that Elayne had difficulty unravelling the gateway at least in part because the OP was already acting wonky? The misuse of the Bowl of Winds, which was never intended to affect the global climate, and was meant to be used by men and woment working together, is the most likely cause of the goofiness.  Wasn't it mentioned recently that that weirdness was passing?  Probably a result of the self healing nature of the pattern.  Now that I think about it, this is an decent arguement against my previous supposition.  We have evidence that the Bowl induced damage is largely healed, and yet Hinderstap is still fubar.

I think it was more due to the fact that unravelling a weave like that is extremely difficult and takes years of practice to master, as Avienda said they usually start with small weaves like candle flames.  The difficulty was due to the fact that her first attempt was on one of the most complex and powerful weaves there is.

[mb]

posted possibilities on cause:

-Bowl of Winds

-balefire

-miasma (bubble of evil)

-Fain

 

I doubt Bowl of Winds contributed to cause since it was used before the situation started.

Balefire, it does unravel the Pattern; but it also make its targets disappear.

Miasma, the on screen miasma we have seen have had different effects.

Fain, not sure if he could cause this sort of thing if he was at (or near) the location.

 

[thewalrus777]

Hinderstap IMHO, is a result of the DO's growing touch on the world. The dead are already walking the land night and day. Whole villages are already turning against one another without the curse that Hinderstap have. Hinderstap is a very unfortunate village that the DO's touch hit a lot harder than most other places. I believe it was brought in to Mat's storyline, because Mat really needs that swift kick in the ass, to show him that TG is literally on his doorstep. And that he has a MASSIVE part to play in it. And also to show to us readers how bad things have truly gotten in Randland. This villages problems were nothing compared to what had happened on the AoL.

[FarShainMael]

Although the Fain idea has a lot of merit, as someone else mentioned, Hinderstap had the lace chapter icon.  That seems to directly point at bubble of evil (DO efforts at destroying pattern) or BF.  I lean toward the bubble simply because Hinderstap is so remote from all known BF uses & users.

 

Unless, I don't recall Fain ever advancing a "destroy the pattern" motive or plan. 

 

 

Nor me, but I do recall him 'stepping ooutside' the Pattern entirely, and I think ripping it in the process.

 

Also, in the previous chapter 'The Tipsy Gelding', Mat's infused memories call Aridhol/SL to his mind, and he starts thinking about Fain's dagger, feeling its pull. I don't recall this being mentioned since he was separated from it at TV! Does this mean Fain was close by?

 

The reminder that Fain can cause 'loops' makes me look at the prophecy about 'Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed' again.

 

[mb]

According to the Mayor of Hinderstrap, it all started happening shortly after the Bowl of Winds was used.

The Bowl was used on Taisham 19 (or January 9 in our calendar); more than 2 months in either calendar.

 

[rane008]

Not that it really matters, but I think we have some foreshadowing of Hinderstap from Taim in LoC.

 

“No,” Taim said, voice unsteady. Not with fear, precisely; more like a man who had felt a cliff unexpectedly crumbling under him and had somehow found himself back on solid ground. “That is the only one I . . . I’ve heard all sorts of rumors since I escaped the Aes Sedai. Monsters leaping out of thin air. Strange beasts. Men talking to animals, and the animals talking back. Aes Sedai going mad like we’re supposed to. Whole villages going mad, killing each other. Some could be true. Half what I know to be true is no less insane. I heard some of the seals have been broken. A hammer could break that one.”

 

Chapter 1. 

 

Just thought I'd share.

[Charles Mahan]

 

Nor me, but I do recall him 'stepping ooutside' the Pattern entirely, and I think ripping it in the process.

 

 

That wasn't Fain.  You're thinking of Morridin using the True Power to travel.

[FarShainMael]

 

Nor me, but I do recall him 'stepping ooutside' the Pattern entirely, and I think ripping it in the process.

 

 

That wasn't Fain.  You're thinking of Morridin using the True Power to travel.

 

Oh, right. Thanks.

 

[lillcheese]

Not that it really matters, but I think we have some foreshadowing of Hinderstap from Taim in LoC.

 

“No,” Taim said, voice unsteady. Not with fear, precisely; more like a man who had felt a cliff unexpectedly crumbling under him and had somehow found himself back on solid ground. “That is the only one I . . . I’ve heard all sorts of rumors since I escaped the Aes Sedai. Monsters leaping out of thin air. Strange beasts. Men talking to animals, and the animals talking back. Aes Sedai going mad like we’re supposed to. Whole villages going mad, killing each other. Some could be true. Half what I know to be true is no less insane. I heard some of the seals have been broken. A hammer could break that one.”

 

Chapter 1. 

 

Just thought I'd share.

 

I don't think the timing of Hinderstap allows for it to be the town causing that rumor.  However, I agree that it does set up a good basis for the zombie fun.  Though, I never agreed that hinderstap was jarring or out of place.

[JakeBarnes]

I'm using linear, indexed dates from the Timeline.

 

Day 657:  Bowl of Winds is used.

Day 657:  Elayne unweaves the gateway

Day 659:  Rand and Moridin cross balefire streams (OP/TP)

Day 675:  Feast of Abram

 

The first 3 items on that list are all within a 2 week timeframe of the turning and could have caused the NOLD.

 

Creating an argument to connect one of these events to the NOLD is something I would leave to others.

 

 

[FarShainMael]

If it really is BF, maybe Demandred did it? After all, the DO asked him if he was going to use BF for him and Demandred smiled. I have never seen anyone evil use balefire against Rand after LoC. However, the idea seems plausible. Nobody really knows what BF can do to the Pattern.

 

We do know what BF does to the pattern, courtesy of RJ in interviews. Massive use of BF can and will unravel the pattern. That's why both sides agreed to never use it again in the War of Power. Even the Forsaken really don't like using BF. EXTREMELY hesitant to use it. As a matter of fact, they've only used it in retalliation of it being used against them(case in point, Rahvin for example).

 

So the DO doesn't want the Pattern unravelled.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................