Brandon's Confusion About Cyndane's Strength. (Full Spoilers)

[Impressive Bosom]

I have an idea on this subject that I would like thoughts on...

 

When someone first beginus channelling, they are no where near as strong as they are going to become. They kind of have to work up to it, flexing that 'channelling muscle', as it were until they become as strong as they are ever going to. Everyone would have a natural, inborn limit but only through practice will that limit ever be reached.

 

When one is severed/stilled, it has been thought up til now that that was a permanent effect, which explains why there is little to no intelligence with regards to what to expect should one become Healed... but just like muscles atrophied after an injury, it may very well be that Siuan and Leane felt weaker because they had not yet rebuilt the atrophied muscles, like a man learning to walk again after months abed. He would certainly feel weaker than he had been, and if he didn't KNOW that he could become strong again, the feeling might be hopeless indeed.

 

That's one theory, though it does not address Logaine supposedly returning to full strength or very nearly. That particular effect might have to do with his being Male or his healer being Female, a theory I've never particularly liked.

 

We're also discounting the possibility that such hard numbers aren't really applicable to individuals as they might be to groups as a whole. Just as some are stronger than others, some learn quicker and have different strengths in various aspects of the Power, some may recover their ability quicker or mor epotently than others... it would seem that there is a great deal of room for individual variation and as such statistics, however logically gathered and applied, might be misleading when it comes to individual cases.

 

When it comes to recovery after being Stilled and then Healed, we simply do not have enough data to know what to reasonably expect.

[Nightstrike]

I don't think it's a matter of atrophied muscles.

 

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

- For Alys Kinch, the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective.  A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration.  It all ties into that theme I keep harping on.  Men and women have to work together to be their most effective.  And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

 

 

[Paerish Swar]

I picked up my copy of WH and reread the encounter between Cyndane and Alivia.  I found the wording there to be very interesting.  Here's the passage:

 

"the ready ball of fire streaked from Cyndane's hand . . . Just as it reached the woman . . . the web of Fire unraveled . . . the net simply came apart!  Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that would break a web, but it must be that.  Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock.  She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!  That was impossible; no woman could be stronger.  She must have an angreal, too.  Shock lasted only the time it took her to slice the other woman's flows."

 

Cyndane's emotional state is described in this passage a couple of times as being "shocked."  I'm pretty sure that we are not any self-deception on the part of Cyndane going on here, so we have little reason to doubt a lot of the things she thinks.

 

The whole point of me stating all this is to say that the paragraph above explicitly says, "She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!"

 

The sentence does not read, "She was stronger than Cyndane had been before she had been burned out and healed," or "before that so-called Aes Sedai had been ordered to restore her powers," or "before that strange old man had come to heal her severing," or " before the Great Lord saw fit to punish her," or "before she was thrown into this inferior body."

 

The defining moment that Cyndane herself refers to when thinking specifically about her old strength as Lanfear in comparison to her new strength as Cyndane is the time when she is held by the Finns!  Again, there is a single point of interest in Cyndane's own mind between Lanfear level and Cyndane level strenth and it is specifically her captivity with the Finns.

 

She also characterizes her time with the Finns as being "held" there.  Obviously she was not just "stuck" there; she was being actively held there against her will.  What was the extent of Lanfear's interaction with the Finns?  They obviously did something to her while she was being "held" there.  What did they do exactly that would cause Cyndane to reference that captivity specifically when thinking of her present and former strength levels?

 

I think, perhaps, that the secret to Cyndane's strength and BS's confusion lies within this question.  Something very tricky must have happened there.

[wipe]

This was suggested often when Cyndane first appeared weaker, and at first glance it does hold some merit in that we know it takes the Shadow some time to find suitable bodies to contain their disenfranchised Chosen. However, if this were the case, how was it that Moridin, Osan’gar and most importantly Aran’gar retained their strength and connection to the Source? If Demandred’s thoughts on Cyndane—specifically that her reduced strength made it unlikely that she was Lanfear—then we know that the other Recycled Forsaken strength’s were all exactly the same as what they had been before. Moreover, if this aspect of channeling were a function of the body and not the soul, than how is it possible that Aran’gar still channeled saidin?

 

How do we know this? All of those you mention are male. We have no other way to know a male channelers strength than them holding all they can and showing each other- in my opinion Moridin, Osan'gar and Aran'gar are unlikely to have done so in front of Demandred. Therefor we don't actually know that the same haven't happened to them (if they stated so OK, but they are not that trust worthy either). Not actually disagreeing with your statements though, just pinting out that we actually have no way of knowing if the same happened to the reincarnated men.....

[jemron]

 

"That was impossible; no woman could be stronger.  She must have an angreal, too.  Shock lasted only the time it took her to slice the other woman's flows."

 

I've read his speculation before, but in my breezing quickly through this thread, did not see it mentioned.  Could it be that Cyndane is equally as powerful now as she was as Lanfear, but that as Lanfear she seemed stronger and/or was actually stronger because she used some sort of ter'angreal or angreal ALL OF THE TIME, which gave the impression of her being stronger than she actually was?

 

"She must have an angreal, too."

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Others have made similar comments, but I figured I'd add them in my own flavor nonetheless...

 

Luckers comes at this from a very interesting angle. It would go a long way toward explaining that “all day” conversation Brandon and Maria had about Cyndane. But consider the payoff if his theory is right: All we get out of it is that certain previously severed characters are modestly stronger than they have been presented to be.

 

From a dramatic standpoint, that's very unsatisfying—like eating cotton candy for dinner. It offers some mild promise for a minor plot twist on the part of some of the other characters, but it really wastes Lanfear's dramatic value. Lanfear has been gone for more than half the series and we still don't know for sure what happened to her after she fell through into Finnland. Even Cyndane has been around for many books now and her power reduction from Lanfear's level still hasn't been explained. If Luckers is right, then there's nothing to explain: Lanfear was severed and Cyndane had to be healed. That would be one hell of an anticlimax for the number of books that it's taken us to get to the point where we're finally going to find out what happened to Lanfear. It's even more of an anticlimax when you consider that Lanfear doesn't play for Light or for Shadow (which itself is an unresolved plot thread) and so far has been the only non-good character and the only Forsaken to enter Finnland—and totally against her intention, I might add.

 

We only know two significant things about Cyndane: First, she's mindtrapped and answers to Moridin. Second, she's not as powerful as Lanfear was. If the second most significant detail about Cyndane is purely the result of a same-sex healing and has nothing to do with all that fancifulness in Finnland...it would be a terrible waste.

 

I don't know whether Lanfear was severed or not, or burned out or not. I don't even know for sure that she died and that we'll never see Lanfear's original body again. There are too many question marks hovering over Finnland. What I can do, though, is weigh the possibilities on a dramatic level. Many of the theories about Lanfear make use of common knowledge in the series, and, as a result, a lot of the guesswork in these theories is predictably simplistic. For instance, there's the thread that Lanfear and Moiraine switched bodies. The problem with these kinds of ideas is that they don't account for the unknowns of Finnland. Luckers' theory wouldn't even require Lanfear to have entered Finnland at all.

 

I suspect we'll find a totally new plot element in ToM; something that RJ had been saving for the climax of the series. An alternative to Luckers' theory is that Brandon's conversation with Maria took as long as it did because of some of these Finnland shenanigans. If Cyndane is being set up as a pivotal character, which is a distinct possibility, then her reduced power level—which is lower than Lanfear's but way higher than Brandon had thought—could be a matter of considerable plot significance and considerable ambiguity as well. After all these years, it would be far more satisfying for the mysteries of Cyndane to have some really heady answers.

[Dreamwalker]

EDIT: I just realized I missed a page reading through this topic and that Paerish Swar and Luckers discussed my first paragraph already. I think that my alternate theory is still interesting though.

 

Couldn't Cyndane's weakened state be the price she paid to the Finns? That, in essence, the Finns took some of her power as their price? We know that if you don't name a price, the Finns will make one for you (typically one you would not like) and the thing that would be most precious to Lanfear would be her strength in the OP.

 

An alternate theory would be that simply being held captive by the Finns for a long period of time could drain your soul somehow. In tSR Ch. 15 when Mat goes through the first doorway ter'angreal, the Aelfinn keep breathing in deeply and one of them remarks, "The savor of him, it has been so very long." This almost seems like they are sucking in something off of Mat, almost feeding on him in some way. It could be that they are somehow eating people's souls or life force, and this could be why Lanfear/Cyndane is weakened, since channeling is tied to one's soul.

 

I think if either of these is the case, the discussion with Maria could have taken all day because it may have been rather unclear exactly how much power the Finns took from her, and Brandon thought that it would be quite a lot whereas Maria was able to pull out evidence from encounters between Cyndane and other channelers, etc. that helped hone in more exactly on Cyndane's strength.

[water_seeker]

They obviously did something to her while she was being "held" there.  What did they do exactly that would cause Cyndane to reference that captivity specifically when thinking of her present and former strength levels?

 

Something happened while she was with them, which is why I agree that her experience there was the defining moment, but I don't think they had anything to do with what happened.  Otherwise her thought would have been, "...before the Finns [did what they did]..."

 

but that as Lanfear she seemed stronger and/or was actually stronger because she used some sort of ter'angreal or angreal ALL OF THE TIME, which gave the impression of her being stronger than she actually was?

 

I believe you read that wrong.  At the beginning of that quote she thinks to herself that Alivia must have a ter'angreal, THEN she thinks that she must also have an angreal (thus, "she must have an angreal too".

[Disco]

luckers i havent read all of this thread, nor do i think what i'm about to say discounts your theory:

Quite clear. If they could be bought up to half of what they were they would be better off. That suggests to me at least a 60% strength loss, and probably more. Only there is a problem. Despite Siuan’s comments both Siuan and Leane stand above the Aes Sedai cut off strength. Indeed, they stand a step or two above that cut off strength, as we can show here.

 

Your problem is that you are assuming an even distribution. If 36% of people are under the cut off, and we have 100 people, you are assuming that on average we have: 1 person on 100, 1 person on 99, 1 person on 98, etc.

 

That might not be the case.

 

You might need a 10 out of 100 in the power to be an Aei Sedai

 

But thanks to the still of male channellers, these days 36% of channelers are under the 10%

 

And Suine happens to be an 80/100 and when she is reduced by 'more than half' she could still be well above the necessary amount to be an Aei Sedai.

[RUSH]

I fully agree that Cyndane's specific thoughts about being held by the Finn are very significant.  RJ could have used so many other wordings there, like "before she was burned out" or "before she died/received a new body" but he specifically chose to say "before the Finn held her."  She also includes both the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn, when we've only seen them separately.

 

The other part I've always found to be curious is her line, ""That was impossible; no woman could be stronger."  Why is she so certain that no woman could be stronger?  Was she genetically modified somehow?  Even so, the physical body doesn't seem to matter in regards to channeling strength.

 

An angreal that she always kept with her also seems wrong.  Anyone with an angreal could do the same thing, but in all the heads of channelers we've been inside, nobody has ever included an angreal as part of their personal strength measurement.  It'd be like us claiming we can easily lift something heavy, without bothering to mention it was underwater.

 

I find the idea of an implanted angreal interesting and amusing, but someone probably would have noticed something odd about her and mentioned it.  Come to think of it, why didn't anyone do that?  Implanting a small angreal into your body seems like a good idea to me.  It's sneaky, and with Healing, there'd be no scar.

Maybe she had herself made into some sort of living angreal.  Got all the molecules in her body lined up just right, like a One Power antenna (side effect: extreme beauty).  But again, the physical body thing.

 

It's something I've wondered about ever since first reading that line.  I suspect that whatever made her so confident that no woman could be stronger is now gone, and that's the reason she's weaker. 

 

I sure hope it's not just her massive ego talking, because that would be a boring let-down.  Villians do have a habit of saying stuff like "impossible!" or "I am unstoppable!", after all.

[Nightstrike]

They must actively be embracing the source through the angreal all the time, otherwise it wouldn't be included in apparent strength. So I don't think that's the case.

 

"No woman could be stronger" has to be seen in the light of the circumstances. Lanfear was one of the very strongest women (probably the strongest) during the AoL. There were more than a hundred thousand female channelers at that time. Now they are... What? Less than 10 000 on all continents?

[lumber]

I also feel that Cyndane seems certain that no woman could be stronger than she (as Lanfear) was. Could she, e.g., have visited the Finns earlier, in the Age of Legends, and requested to be the strongest a woman could be?

 

I seem to remember a quote from Brandon where he states that the Finns cant permanently alter one's ability to channel, but maybe that is why she is now weaker? She has now reverted to her original strength?

[cannon]

I disagree with the entire premise of this post, namely that there's any mystery here at all based on Brandon's comments about arguing with Maria.

 

When I read those posts, I interpreted it to mean that they had a debate about one section of RJ's notes, and then Maria found another section of notes which backs up her point.

 

They probably weren't even in the same room.  When Brandon says he was arguing with Maria "all day", it most likely means he was trading emails with her all day, until she found an additional piece of the notes which backed up her point.

 

"All day" in emails probably would have taken no more than 15 minutes of conversation face-to-face.  Therefore, there's no long timeline of having to convince Brandon.  Therefore, there's no mystery here in the first place.

 

Occam's Razor says your making up theories where there are none to be had.

[Lord of the Morning]

I also feel that Cyndane seems certain that no woman could be stronger than she (as Lanfear) was. Could she, e.g., have visited the Finns earlier, in the Age of Legends, and requested to be the strongest a woman could be?

 

I seem to remember a quote from Brandon where he states that the Finns cant permanently alter one's ability to channel, but maybe that is why she is now weaker? She has now reverted to her original strength?

This would make sense to me, Mierin is always described as power hungry, and if she heard about a doorway that takes her to a place she can get 3 wishes, i think shed go there and request to be the most powerful channeller of Saidar. 

 

My question then becomes what else did she ask for?  I think it would be something along the lines of, strongest female channeler in the world, most beautiful woman in the world, and able to leave safely.  this would also explain why she was one of the most powerful people in AoL without earning her third name.

[Beli Tsar]

I also feel that Cyndane seems certain that no woman could be stronger than she (as Lanfear) was. Could she, e.g., have visited the Finns earlier, in the Age of Legends, and requested to be the strongest a woman could be?

 

I seem to remember a quote from Brandon where he states that the Finns cant permanently alter one's ability to channel, but maybe that is why she is now weaker? She has now reverted to her original strength?

This would make sense to me, Mierin is always described as power hungry, and if she heard about a doorway that takes her to a place she can get 3 wishes, i think shed go there and request to be the most powerful channeller of Saidar. 

 

My question then becomes what else did she ask for?  I think it would be something along the lines of, strongest female channeler in the world, most beautiful woman in the world, and able to leave safely.  this would also explain why she was one of the most powerful people in AoL without earning her third name.

 

 

I've read on from postings of some of his other interviews (I'll have to go backtrack and find the precise source) where Brandon hints that Lanfear was naturally the most powerful woman and a very beautiful woman but that perhaps her mythical amount of power before her re-birth and her unmatchable beauty might have been enhanced from a ter'angreal/angreal albeit a not too powerful so as not to raise suspicion that they were not natural.

[Anoxanmore]

I also feel that Cyndane seems certain that no woman could be stronger than she (as Lanfear) was. Could she, e.g., have visited the Finns earlier, in the Age of Legends, and requested to be the strongest a woman could be?

 

I seem to remember a quote from Brandon where he states that the Finns cant permanently alter one's ability to channel, but maybe that is why she is now weaker? She has now reverted to her original strength?

This would make sense to me, Mierin is always described as power hungry, and if she heard about a doorway that takes her to a place she can get 3 wishes, i think shed go there and request to be the most powerful channeller of Saidar. 

 

My question then becomes what else did she ask for?  I think it would be something along the lines of, strongest female channeler in the world, most beautiful woman in the world, and able to leave safely.  this would also explain why she was one of the most powerful people in AoL without earning her third name.

 

 

I've read on from postings of some of his other interviews (I'll have to go backtrack and find the precise source) where Brandon hints that Lanfear was naturally the most powerful woman and a very beautiful woman but that perhaps her mythical amount of power before her re-birth and her unmatchable beauty might have been enhanced from a ter'angreal/angreal albeit a not too powerful so as not to raise suspicion that they were not natural.

Even if she did have a ter'angreal, angreal on her, women can sense someone's innate ability to channel (volume able to hold), so the ter'angreal, angreal, sa'angreal would not have dimished it.

[Beli Tsar]

Which is why in the books the female forsaken mention Lanfear as being one whose true power was often hidden by her. Entirely plausible since we know female characters can do that, and if whatever kind of "greal" she has is small enough so that she's not channeling a ridiculously higher amount then they might be easily mislead on what her real power is if she doesn't use it everytime she channels.

[Anoxanmore]

Which is why in the books the female forsaken mention Lanfear as being one whose true power was often hidden by her. Entirely plausible since we know female characters can do that, and if whatever kind of "greal" she has is small enough so that she's not channeling a ridiculously higher amount then they might be easily mislead on what her real power is if she doesn't use it everytime she channels.

 

Or the fact she can match almost all men. :P

[dcat]

 

The first thing that must be kept in mind is that Siuan and Leane’s opinions on this issue are skewed by the influence of the Hierarchy. The Aes Sedai represent only a limited range of strengths, with Daigian establishing the bottom limit for the social range, whilst the upper limit is established by Siuan’s previous strength, where Romanda and Lelaine now sit (note: I exclude Cadsuane and the Wonder Girls because they are outliers; the former is thought dead and the latter aren’t truly included in the Aes Sedai range by most Aes Sedai due to the way they were raised).

 

RJ said 36.2% of all female channelers are below the Aes Sedai cut off strength. For the sake of argument lets just assume that strength is evenly distributed, and that means the cut off strength is around the 30 mark on a scale of one hundred. Also, again for purely argumentative purposes, lets presuppose Siuan’s original strength was around 60. This means that the Aes Sedai Hierarchy roughly includes only about 30% of the full strength range for female channelers.

 

All of this means that a very small loss in strength results in a far greater loss in social standing. At a ratio of about 1:3, to be exact. All of this is a bit irrelevant in truth, I’m just pointing out that we should tread warily in giving too much credence to any Aes Sedai’s judgement of the degree of Siuan and Leane’s decline.

 

 

I was just reading this and it occurred to me that this makes a lot of sense if you thinking of channeling power being distributed in a normal curve, rather than a flat function.  Say Siuan Leane start off at 2 standard deviations above the mean. This would have made them more powerful than 97.7% of the general population and 96.3% of Aes Sedai, taking into account the very specific cut off of the bottom 36.2%. (Yes, I did the math. I'm a geek.)

 

Now, if they lost 2 standard deviations of power, this would make them exactly average, population wise, but they would only be more powerful than 13.8% of Aes Sedai. If they got back half the power they lost, getting them to 1 standard deviation above the mean, they'd be stronger than 84.1% of the general pop. and 75.1% of Aes Sedai. These numbers sound pretty much in line with Suian and Leane's talk of what they've lost.

 

This also explains Lanfear's power. Let's say she start's out at 6 standard deviations above the mean. This would make her stronger than basically everyone. A loss of 2 standard deviations -- the same as Siuan and Leane as discussed above -- would put Lanfear at only 4 standard deviations above the mean. She would still be stronger than 99.99% of the population, which is pretty much everyone, especially in a world with only about 10,000 channelers.

 

Note - Absolute power loss and ratio of power loss here is entirely a function of mean and standard deviation: If the mean is 200 and the standard deviation is 10, then a loss of 2 standard deviations only costs Siuan and Leane 9% of their absolute power. However, if the mean is 200 and the standard deviation is 150, then a loss of 2 standard deviations costs them 60% of their absolute power.

 

[Shazzai]

 

I was just reading this and it occurred to me that this makes a lot of sense if you thinking of channeling power being distributed in a normal curve, rather than a flat function.  Say Siuan Leane start off at 2 standard deviations above the mean. This would have made them more powerful than 97.7% of the general population and 96.3% of Aes Sedai, taking into account the very specific cut off of the bottom 36.2%. (Yes, I did the math. I'm a geek.)

 

Now, if they lost 2 standard deviations of power, this would make them exactly average, population wise, but they would only be more powerful than 13.8% of Aes Sedai. If they got back half the power they lost, getting them to 1 standard deviation above the mean, they'd be stronger than 84.1% of the general pop. and 75.1% of Aes Sedai. These numbers sound pretty much in line with Suian and Leane's talk of what they've lost.

 

This also explains Lanfear's power. Let's say she start's out at 6 standard deviations above the mean. This would make her stronger than basically everyone. A loss of 2 standard deviations -- the same as Siuan and Leane as discussed above -- would put Lanfear at only 4 standard deviations above the mean. She would still be stronger than 99.99% of the population, which is pretty much everyone, especially in a world with only about 10,000 channelers.

 

Note - Absolute power loss and ratio of power loss here is entirely a function of mean and standard deviation: If the mean is 200 and the standard deviation is 10, then a loss of 2 standard deviations only costs Siuan and Leane 9% of their absolute power. However, if the mean is 200 and the standard deviation is 150, then a loss of 2 standard deviations costs them 60% of their absolute power.

 

 

The application of the bell curve to the distribution of channeling power levels intrigues me.  I also wonder how channeling strength relates to the production of testosterone.  What about people with XXY chromosomes?  Do they channel saidin or saidar?  Or do they get access to both?  I see your math geekery and raise you biology geekery.  :P

[chuckievi]

The application of the bell curve to the distribution of channeling power levels intrigues me.  I also wonder how channeling strength relates to the production of testosterone.  What about people with XXY chromosomes?  Do they channel saidin or saidar?  Or do they get access to both?  I see your math geekery and raise you biology geekery.  Tongue

 

A couple of things here.  Most human attributes fall along a normal distribution, which is why it is entirely logical to apply stats to this problem.  Secondly, someone asked RJ your question about chromosomes once, and his response was along the lines that only a sick twisted person would contemplate/ask such a question.

[TheAngryDruid]

OK, forgive me if some of this has been disproved, I'm not as knowledgeable on the state of disproved theories throughout the series, but I find this an interesting discussion, and would like to say the following.

 

1) Paraphrase of Luckers' position: difference between "burned out" and "stilling" before being healed + some ambiguity in the Leane/Siuan strength comments led the discrepancies in the Brandon/Maria positions on Cyndane's strength. Along with something in the notes.

 

Hope that is accurate.

 

OK here goes my thoughts.

 

First, I always thought the idea that a channeler lost a certain percentage of their strength if still and same sex healed to be inaccurate, or at least disputed. Reason being is that half of Lanfear's strength is a hell of a lot more than Diagain's, or Siuan's. Therefore the better option was that a certain amount of strength is lost (not a percentage) if stilled and same-sex healed. If a channeler isn't that strong, then the loss would be magnified. If the channeler is VERY strong (Lanfear), then the loss wouldn't be as significant.

 

Is that still a valid theory?

 

Second, I noticed that BS refused to say that Lanfear was never under any shennanigans. I've always been supportive of some of the ideas proposing that Lanfear's strength was augmented somehow (Finns, DO, or some other way). And somehow she lost that in her escape.

 

As evidence I'd quote from Cyndane's POV at the cleansing when she says "no women COULD be stronger." Kind of odd to assume that it was impossible for anyone to ever be stronger than you. Not that she WAS the strongest, but no one could be stronger, ever. How would she know that unless she made a Finn wish, or had some deal with the DO?

 

Is the Lanfear augmentation theory still possible? It seems to be given BS's quote. And if it isn't, how do we explain Cyndane's comments in her POV?

 

Anyway, I think it is a very interesting discussion, and wanted to check on the status of some of my previous thoughts on the subject.

 

[DemandredFO]

Since I didn't see this I'll point it out.  Regarding Sheriam's comment about the women who tested the novice to accepted ter'angreal; you must remember she's BA and hence could've and probably did lie.

[chuckievi]

@ TheAngryDruid:

 

This quote would seem to come into play, and there was one from RJ that I can't find that seemed to say as much

Matt: Would the 'Finns have the ability to accentuate someone’s beauty and/or quantity or access to the One Power through their own capabilities and talents?

Brandon: Yes, but it might involve third party ter’angreal, angreal, this sort of thing.

Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channeling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability.

 

i.e. it seems that the Finns cannot increase someones raw strength in channeling, only add to it via *angreal.  If I am recalling correctly, the RJ quote was clearer about the Finns not having that ability, but I am thus far unable to find it.  I'll keep looking.  Also, unless I am mistaken, Luckers' position is that stilling/burning out are the same, heal-able condition.

[TheAngryDruid]

@ TheAngryDruid:

 

This quote would seem to come into play, and there was one from RJ that I can't find that seemed to say as much

Matt: Would the 'Finns have the ability to accentuate someone’s beauty and/or quantity or access to the One Power through their own capabilities and talents?

Brandon: Yes, but it might involve third party ter’angreal, angreal, this sort of thing.

Matt: So, they don’t have power to affect the soul’s capability of increasing its total channeling?

Brandon: Certainly not permanently; as far I understand, that is outside the realm of their ability.

 

i.e. it seems that the Finns cannot increase someones raw strength in channeling, only add to it via *angreal.  If I am recalling correctly, the RJ quote was clearer about the Finns not having that ability, but I am thus far unable to find it.  I'll keep looking.  Also, unless I am mistaken, Luckers' position is that stilling/burning out are the same, heal-able condition.

 

Thanks. Much appreciation.

 

But that still leaves me with the question of why Cyndane thought (form her POV) no woman could be stronger (ever), and BS refusal to say Lanfear wasn't under any shennanigans.

 

Although the Finn wish was a popular theory, it wouldn't be the only possibility. An imbedded ter'angreal/angreal (maybe that silver belt or stars?) or some gift of the DO would still be in play.