How Will Rand Defeat the Dark One? (Full Spoilers)

[Durinax]

I think fain has an important role in the sealing of the bore, after all the two evils conflict

[ed2funy]

Then what part of the world ceased to exist when he lost his hand?

 

Hopefully the Land of Madmen...:P

 

idk...hmmm...let me think....:-\

 

Not al things are literal...but the side wound is.

:P

That explains it.

Maybe...it could be!

 

:)

[Kara]

I keep thinking about the schools Rand started and the gunpowder Mat is about to use.  I think both the One and the True power will have to be used up to defeat the DO and the world will have to learn existance without super powers.

[Diederichos]

I'm not entirely sure that that won't occur. I meant, what's the point of the OP now? The Fourth Age is supposed to be that of regular folks, else what's the point of the train(btw, a train that travels hundreds o fmiles after being invented?0, the cannons and all that crap. It just makes no sense to spend so much time beating that over our heads without it mattering somehow. I think that the OP one or another will be greatly diminished post TG.

[Dakota]

Well, yeah, those two got out, but it was mentioned that they were closest to the edge of the bore, which is why they were so ravaged by age when they got out, whereas the other exited at roughly the same age they were when they were sealed.  You had those two, and Ishamel and his every-forty-year thing.

 

Aside from those three, unless I'm mistaken, we didn't see any of the others out and about until after the battle at Falme.  Aside from the aforementioned three, the first forsakens we heard from were Sammael ruling in Illian and Belial in Tear.  So it's possible that the bore was weakening, but Rand getting his wound is what opened it enough to let the others ou.

 

What about Lanfear?

 

Hmm.  Yup, I forgot about her.

[Durinax]

I'm not entirely sure that that won't occur. I meant, what's the point of the OP now? The Fourth Age is supposed to be that of regular folks, else what's the point of the train(btw, a train that travels hundreds o fmiles after being invented?0, the cannons and all that crap. It just makes no sense to spend so much time beating that over our heads without it mattering somehow. I think that the OP one or another will be greatly diminished post TG.

All the technological stuff would still be used in warfare, and hopefully the channellers will all change to peaceful endeavors

[Nethran Thaimal]

Until they develop teleporters and bridges that unfurl on demand where ad when you need them, and technology to right the weather, and ships that make their own wind, and food that "Keeps" itself, and metal that itself never dulls or rusts, or create pottery that can't break, or manage to find a way to create ter'angreal without the OP... it will always have a purpose in the WoT universe.

[Impressive Bosom]

I keep thinking about the schools Rand started and the gunpowder Mat is about to use.  I think both the One and the True power will have to be used up to defeat the DO and the world will have to learn existance without super powers.

 

I have been thinking the exact same thing for a long time... maybe used up, or maybe simply 'seperated' in some way from it, giving it up and leaving it to be re-discovered in another Age.

 

That sure would wreck some of Egwene's plans, though...

[Auld Manriva]

The AoL had planes, trains, automobiles and buildings that floated in the sky with channelers who's powers dwarfed most of those in the Third Age. Why would the Fourth Age not have both too?

 

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

And you can't "use up" the Powers.  Rand probably channeled the entire "pool" of saidin when he cleanes it.  I don't think it would have been cleansed successfully otherwise.  It just gets used and goes back into the "pool".  Like water.  It evaporates, but it eventually makes its way back to the ground.  It's a cycle.

[Tetani]

To completely defeat the dark one seems unlikely. All the creator could do was imprison him, so for the dragon to do more seems unrealistic.

 

To me, it seems that the way the dark one is 'not' going to be defeated is the way Rand thinks. Ie, a mass attack on shayol Ghul, give the DO a black eye, remake the seals, and go home.

My reasons..

The dark one doesnt seem to be doing anything to prevent it. The opposite in fact. He's told his minions not to kill Rand, but to bring him suffering and misery. Presumably as an attempt to goad him into a fight.

And to then give him an extremely potent weapon??

 

To me, the dark one seems to be setting Rand's path now, and thats scary.

 

In the Age of Legends, the bore was open, the DO had followers in far greater numbers than he had now, he had much greater strength in the one power through dreadlords/Forsaken than he does now. He couldnt break out of his prison then, so it seems reasonable to assume that he cant now.

 

Not without something that he didnt have before.

 

Here's a controversial idea then. Perhaps Rand's blood must be spilt on Shayol Ghul, because it is Rand who is the shadow?

Is it possible that with all the dark ones influencing, Rand ends up thinking he's going to destroy the dark one, where in fact, he'll be the one to set him free?

 

We already know that the Darkfriends have their own prophercies regarding the coming of the dark one. Perhaps the Dragon Reborn is instrumental in them too?

 

This is just a theory, dont shoot me for it.  ;)

 

As an aside... In the previous age, the 'one power' or at least the access to it, was much higher than this one. We've another 5 ages to go before that comes round again, so it seems likely that the use of the power could drop again into the next age before resurfacing in an age yet to come.

 

The AoL had planes, trains, automobiles and buildings that floated in the sky with channelers who's powers dwarfed most of those in the Third Age. Why would the Fourth Age not have both too?

 

 

 

To my understanding, most of those were objects of the power. Ter Angreal that powered themselves. I cant remember when, but I'm sure I recall a reference to a forsaken complaining that the standing weaves had been forgotten, so most of these devices were useless now.

[Crael123]

well its simple. he will lose.

[Sharaman]

Can the Bore be "unwoven" using some form of the anti-compulsion technique?

The Bore was drilled somehow by Lanfear and a male AS Bedmedown (whatever) who must have used the OP.

Can Nynaeve/ Alivia - Rand or some other paired Saidar-Saidin channeler couple unweave the Bore by laying on the mirror image weaves as is done to remove compulsion?

Or unpick the weaves using Aviendha's technique?

Then it could be like the Bore winks out of existence and GLoD is locked away again in an undamaged prison.

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

I don't think you can unweave a weak spot in the pattern.  It has to be repaired.  That's my understanding, anyway.

[wotjunkie]

[quote author=Questor link=topic=52423.msg1431350#msg1431350 date=1262833757

Anywho, if he is healed then how will his blood be spilled on the rocks of SG? According to prophesy, IIRC, that must happen in order for the Light to win. Healing leaves no mark. While I think that is interesting, I don't think it probable.

 

i guess it could mean Rands blood, i always suspected it meant the Aiel it seems to fit in with a remnant of a remnant prophesy.

[Baramos]

I was always under the impression that the solution would involve Balefire somehow since its properties makes it as if things never happened. So if you hit Lanfear with a big enough dose of Balefire you could technically keep her from drilling the Bore 3,000 years ago. But what with The Gathering Storm pointing out the strain put on the pattern from the huge use of Balefire and how it changes history, combined with Rand destroying the statue that gives him access to the Choedan'kal and the power needed to reverse something 3,000 years ago, I don't think Balefire is going to be the solution.

 

The solution will probably involve multiple circles of channelers linking (which involves both male and female channelers since that's the only way to link two circles, otherwise it tops out at 13 female channelers), the lost song of the Tu'athan and Aiel, Ogier, etc. Not sure what's going to be revealed as the mechanism but all this stuff has to play some part in it or there's not a lot of reason for the mechanics being painted out if they're never used for major plot points. I guess they could be used for something else, though.

[Luckers]

Plus Brandon told Matt from Theoryland that even using the Choedan Kal at full burst you could only remove a small amount of time. A few days, maybe a week.

[water_seeker]

To completely defeat the dark one seems unlikely. All the creator could do (?) was imprison him, so for the dragon to do more seems unrealistic.

 

All the Creator did (as far as we know from the saying).  Who knows what the Creator is capable of? 

[thewalrus777]

To completely defeat the dark one seems unlikely. All the creator could do (?) was imprison him, so for the dragon to do more seems unrealistic.

 

All the Creator did (as far as we know from the saying).  Who knows what the Creator is capable of? 

 

I would imagine the creator is capable of anything, he IS THE CREATOR after all. However I doubt we'll get to know the extent of what he can truly do, mainly because he refuses to interfere with his creations.

[Sab]

I was always under the impression that the solution would involve Balefire somehow since its properties makes it as if things never happened. So if you hit Lanfear with a big enough dose of Balefire you could technically keep her from drilling the Bore 3,000 years ago. But what with The Gathering Storm pointing out the strain put on the pattern from the huge use of Balefire and how it changes history, combined with Rand destroying the statue that gives him access to the Choedan'kal and the power needed to reverse something 3,000 years ago, I don't think Balefire is going to be the solution.

 

The solution will probably involve multiple circles of channelers linking (which involves both male and female channelers since that's the only way to link two circles, otherwise it tops out at 13 female channelers), the lost song of the Tu'athan and Aiel, Ogier, etc. Not sure what's going to be revealed as the mechanism but all this stuff has to play some part in it or there's not a lot of reason for the mechanics being painted out if they're never used for major plot points. I guess they could be used for something else, though.

 

The amount of balrefire to wipe out 3000 years would destroy the world.  Just as RJ said the amount of balefire that would be required to kill the DO would destroy the world.  That would be the same risk of having too many people linked together firing off balefire. 

[Sharaman]

I don't think you can unweave a weak spot in the pattern.  It has to be repaired.  That's my understanding, anyway.

The weak spot in the Pattern remains. But the Bore that was drilled through that weak spot used Saidin-Saidar wielded by just two channelers (even if they were both freakishly strong). It may be possible to "unweave" that Bore using either some version of mirror-imaging Mierin's and Bedmedown's weave or by unpicking their weave as Avi did with her Gate.

 

[ed2funy]

If the Bore is a hole, how can it be 'unweaved'?

 

It is like if a thread of Spirit just tore a hole into the Pattern. You can't unweave a hole, because it is just a hole.

[mossman87]

If the Bore is a hole, how can it be 'unweaved'?

 

It is like if a thread of Spirit just tore a hole into the Pattern. You can't unweave a hole, because it is just a hole.

 

The same way a gateway made with Saidin is a "hole" in the Pattern and they learned to unweave that.

 

All the Bore is, is a hole cut into the Pattern, they just need to figure out how to repair it.  Anything that was done with the Power can be undone with the Power, that's one of the big themes of the books.

[ed2funy]

But a Gateway is an active weave.

 

It is not something, as far as I know, something that is still there.

 

If you cut a hole in a shirt, you can't uncut it. You have to sew it back up (maybe with a 'patch').

 

"unweaving" the Bore is different from repairing it.

[Nethran Thaimal]

But a Gateway is an active weave.

 

It is not something, as far as I know, something that is still there.

 

If you cut a hole in a shirt, you can't uncut it. You have to sew it back up (maybe with a 'patch').

 

"unweaving" the Bore is different from repairing it.

 

This.

 

 

Think of it this way... Balefire.  Burns a thread out of the Pattern.  That part of the Pattern is now gone.  You can't unweave the lack of that thread.  You can't weave something to undo the Balefire, unless you Balefire the Balefirer, and Mierin and Beidomon(not BedMeDown, lol) cannot be balefired.  Maybe Cyndane can, but I think her dying probably messed the possibility of an impossibly large balefire undoing her actions as Lanfear.