WoT Favorites: Military Leaders

[Dionysus]

The polls are all done, if you haven't voted in any of them you better do so quickly. On Sunday, April 9, the finals will begin.

 

The tenth poll question is Who is your favorite foreigner?

 

note: Loial isnt really a foreigner to Randland, but Ogier are seperate societies, and I havent been able to place him in a poll question yet, so I made this one specifically to put him in, and some more of the Aiel which have been under represented (Aviendha).

 

Poll 1: Who is your favorite Forsaken

 

Poll 2: Who is your favorite Military Leader

 

Poll 3: Who is your favorite Aes Sedai

 

Poll 4: Who is your favorite Land Ruler

 

Poll 5: Who is your favorite Post-Breaking Pre-Rand Character

 

Poll 6: Who is your favorite Blademaster

 

Poll 7: Who is your favorite of the original travellers

 

Poll 8: Who is your favorite warder

 

Poll 9: Who is your favorite Asha'man

 

Poll 10: Who is your favorite foreigner

[Dionysus]

I voted for Bashere, hes had to defend the borderlands for years, sparred with Taim, has been around Rand for many of his battles, and is a complete wildcard for the final book.

[LonGunmn49]

For me, I gotta vote for Mat. He hasn't been at it too long, but he has all the experience of those dead generals to go by. Not to mention his work with fireworks and the crossbows.

[Guest Majsju]

Right now, I think it's a toss-up between Bashere and Bryne. With Kadere as a dark horse, we haven't really seen enough of him yet, but I think he's got great potential.

 

Mat does IMO not deserve to be on that list. It's not his experience, his skills, that makes him such a great general.

[Briakale Nirene]

I like Bryne the best. He is a strong man, yet has a sense of humor and is able to feel.

[Guest Egwene]

Gareth Bryne for me as well. He has a nice sense of humour (and I am hoping to get invited to the wedding of course!!)

[Kadere]

Are you kidding me? It's GOT to be Mat! He's the rencarnation of the Creator only knows how many past generals! He's got cannons, guns, crossbows. He's the leader of the Band of the Red Hand for crying out loud! Mat is Ta'veran and that's enough for me to place him as the best general out there.

[TaeaDawn]

OK.. the poll says Favorite.. not best :P

 

So I voted for Mat. How can you not love a General who started out winning his first set of battles by trying to escape battle?

 

However if you were to ask for the best,I'd have to go with Gareth, even if he has the Dark One's luck with women :P

[Guest cwestervelt]

How did Sammael get on this list? His only attempt at generalling that we saw resulted in him getting eaten by Mashadaar. Not a very good strategy.

[Graendals favourite]

I think I remember that in "The Strike to Shayol Ghul", it was mentioned that Sammael made the decisive break that brought the territories, where the Choedan Kal ter'angreals were, under the Shadows rule, and when following him Be'lal and Demandred also advanced, things were getting desperate enough for the Strike.

[Guest cwestervelt]

That could be why I don't recall it. I'm not familiar with the "Strike at Shayol Ghul" short story.

[Graendals favourite]

It's at http://www.tor.com/shayol.html

[Guest cwestervelt]

Thanks. I'm not sure how I missed it unless I just don't remember having reading. I'll definitely read it soon though.

[RJ Haran]

The Interalude(SP?) guy, I just love hearing him think, "I always have a plan".

[Myth]

Mat is my favorite guy in the whole series. as for the whole general thing, he has by far what i feel is the most logical attitude towards fighting: a guy could get killed out there! :D

 

he isn't the only person who does what he has to do, but at the same he doesn't seem like it's no big deal that thousands of bad guys want to stick three feet of steel through his body. i think i'd feel the same way. of course, i probably wouldn't get to have such a nice hat.

[ajfurst]

Leaving aside the likes of Sammael and Demandred - as we haven't seen any battles by them, my list of generals to rank are : Mat, Ituralde, Bashere, Byrne, Agelmar and Niall.

 

'Favourite' general is a bit ambigious.

 

Does it mean favourite character who's a general ?

In which case my order would be how interesting I find the character to read, which only in part has to do with their battle skills. My order is :

1) Mat - favourite character since book 3. For me the best parts of the whole series is when Mat is leading the Band - IMO the reason why books 7 to 10 suffered so much. Created this fantastic reluctant leader, then took it away for baths and silk washing.

2) Niall - a Whitecloak with all that baggage, but a really interesting character

3) Ituralde - would make a great poker player

4) Byrne - the Byrne / Siuan storyline is good

5) Bashere

6) Agelmar - haven't seen much of him apart from the TEOTW cameo.

 

Or is it who you think HAS been the best general ? Even this is unclear. If you go by who's done the most as a general (and for Mat this means Mat, not his past lives) - my order would be :

1) Bashere - kept the blight at length AND brought bits of Saldaea that had drifted away back into the fold

2) Niall - with few forces managed a draw against the combined Illian, Altaran and Amadician's in the Whitecloak war

3) Agelmar - similar to Bashere

4) Mat - for his actions with the Band of the Red Hand

5) Itulralde and Bryne - for great generals, both were military leaders of countries that were falling apart - or just held together - even before Rand and the forsaken and Seanchan burst on the scene. Unlike Bashere in Saldaea, Bryne wasn't able to enforce Andorian law again in the Two Rivers. Heck we don't even hear of any battles were his brilliant skills caused a lesser Andorian force to defeat Tairens or Cairheinin. It's a similar situation for Ituralde.

 

Or the third option - who would be your favourite if you needed one to win a battle - assuming each has access to the same force and faces the same enemy.

Then my order would be :

1) Mat - he has memories of numerous generals. Most importantly for battles in this age, he's the only one with 'experience' of very large scale battles

2) Bashere - has fought large battles against Shadowspawn. And against Taim, and now with Rand against the Seanchan against human forces.

3) Niall (assuming he's alive for this comparison)

4) Ituralde - I think he's a tricky bugger. And hope we get to see him break a few Seanchan noses before Rand gets his truce with them.

5) Agelmar

6) Bryne - yet to see anything to justify his reputation. Really, really hoping there's at least one battle at Tar Valon - be it Rebels vs. Tower or Rebels vs. Seanchan or Rebels + Tower vs. Seanchan - where Bryne's skills are the difference between winning and losing.

[Dionysus]

Leaving aside the likes of Sammael and Demandred - as we haven't seen any battles by them' date=' my list of generals to rank are : Mat, Ituralde, Bashere, Byrne, Agelmar and Niall.

 

'Favourite' general is a bit ambigious.

 

Does it mean favourite character who's a general ?

In which case my order would be how interesting I find the character to read, which only in part has to do with their battle skills. My order is :

1) Mat - favourite character since book 3. For me the best parts of the whole series is when Mat is leading the Band - IMO the reason why books 7 to 10 suffered so much. Created this fantastic reluctant leader, then took it away for baths and silk washing.

2) Niall - a Whitecloak with all that baggage, but a really interesting character

3) Ituralde - would make a great poker player

4) Byrne - the Byrne / Siuan storyline is good

5) Bashere

6) Agelmar - haven't seen much of him apart from the TEOTW cameo.

 

Or is it who you think HAS been the best general ? Even this is unclear. If you go by who's done the most as a general (and for Mat this means Mat, not his past lives) - my order would be :

1) Bashere - kept the blight at length AND brought bits of Saldaea that had drifted away back into the fold

2) Niall - with few forces managed a draw against the combined Illian, Altaran and Amadician's in the Whitecloak war

3) Agelmar - similar to Bashere

4) Mat - for his actions with the Band of the Red Hand

5) Itulralde and Bryne - for great generals, both were military leaders of countries that were falling apart - or just held together - even before Rand and the forsaken and Seanchan burst on the scene. Unlike Bashere in Saldaea, Bryne wasn't able to enforce Andorian law again in the Two Rivers. Heck we don't even hear of any battles were his brilliant skills caused a lesser Andorian force to defeat Tairens or Cairheinin. It's a similar situation for Ituralde.

 

Or the third option - who would be your favourite if you needed one to win a battle - assuming each has access to the same force and faces the same enemy.

Then my order would be :

1) Mat - he has memories of numerous generals. Most importantly for battles in this age, he's the only one with 'experience' of very large scale battles

2) Bashere - has fought large battles against Shadowspawn. And against Taim, and now with Rand against the Seanchan against human forces.

3) Niall (assuming he's alive for this comparison)

4) Ituralde - I think he's a tricky bugger. And hope we get to see him break a few Seanchan noses before Rand gets his truce with them.

5) Agelmar

6) Bryne - yet to see anything to justify his reputation. Really, really hoping there's at least one battle at Tar Valon - be it Rebels vs. Tower or Rebels vs. Seanchan or Rebels + Tower vs. Seanchan - where Bryne's skills are the difference between winning and losing.[/quote']

 

great post...

 

For the favorite military commander, I meant it as however you interpret it as. For me, I voted Bashere, because I think he has the most experience and through the books he has participated in so many battles and so many major plotlines, plus he is a total wildcard in the final book (the viewing of darkness by Min). There is definitely tough competition, but for Mat, I think he has benifitted from his Tav'ereness a bit too much, Bryne hasnt had the exposure Bashere has, Karede ditto although I would love to see his brilliance come into view, Ituralde has been behind the scenes and we havent seen his ultimate plan yet, etc etc.

[Marak]

Mat. I think everyone else has adequately summed up my thoughts on this subject.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Mat would probably win the prize for best Tactician.

 

But, it takes a lot more than tactical brilliance to be a great general. Talmanes is the best all-round general in the books, so far. He's the one who has recruited the Band of the Red Hand, trained them, supplied them, kept them out of trouble, and found a way to keep them paid.

 

Mat just supplies good tactics when he bothers to show up.

 

We haven't had an opportunity to see much from the others, so far. Bryne has, like Talmanes, recruited and trained, and supplied a growing fighting force under very trying conditions.

[alCal]

Here comes a short one:

Bashere, for beeing so damn cool.

[Nygma]

Favorite for me is Mat. Of course, being a great general is only one facet of him we see, while we don't see much of the others.

 

I have to disagree with you, Majsju. Mat's ability is more than just his past memories. He is very good at stones, which Thom says is a trait of good generals and players of the Game. He defeats Tuon more often than he loses when he applies himself. He is also highly inquisitive and interested in how things work. We know he took a clock apart trying to find out how it worked, and did the same with fireworks. Everyone else accepts that both are "next thing to Aes Sedai work". Mat has a more critical mind. He has a very pragmatic mind. Honor, pride are not reasons to fight and he avoids battle where ever possible. "A man could get killed in there!" So when he has to, he makes sure he wins. He's willing to spend gold, try new technologies, adapt, differ from current military thought. The tactics of the Legion of the Dragon, guerilla warfare, and adoption of fireworks are some innovations that appear to be his own, not borrowed from previous ages.

 

Other than Mat, Pedron Niall, Ituralde, and Bashere are pretty cool. Niall in particular I liked a lot. We know more about his abilities than the others. While Bashere and Jagad mainly fought the masses of Myrdraal and Trollocs, and Ituralde and Bryne fought the notoriously un-unified Taraboners and Murandians, Niall has proven his mettle against what seems to be more formidable human foes. He was also the most interesting of the Whitecloaks by far. I always enjoyed his PoVs. Another pragmatic mind. Series lost something when he died.

[girl-in-the-army]

how can you not love gareth bryne? His I will do what i need to do but you will not back out on me attitude is great, he nailed a queen without any kind of cumpusion or leverage, and he is just flat cool!! :P

[valheru]

Got to agree with myth-it's mat all the way.

Furthermore I've got to disagree with maj on this .Sure he has the memories of previous generals and battles to draw upon but I dont think that these alone make him a great general.Certainly they help but without his own innate talent and luck I believe he would be competent at best.

To use a football analogy having a large pot of money does not in itself make Man U or now Chelski a great team-certainly it helps but it is the managers(Fergie & TSO)who shape the team and provide the tactics-witness Newcastle or Liverpool under Houllier as a contrast.

[Dionysus]

how can you not love gareth bryne? His I will do what i need to do but you will not back out on me attitude is great' date=' he nailed a queen without any kind of cumpusion or leverage, and he is just flat cool!! :P[/quote']

 

Mat had to do everything in his power just to get away from nailing a queen, and then he gets married to the empress of an entire nation :)

[Dark Justice]

It had to be Ituralde. Reading his storyline is so amzingly supercool..

 

I know Mat has new inventions, and uses the same tacticks as Ituralde, but Ituralde has in difference to Mat, obtained his quality in battle and experience, where Mat just walks through a door. (that should count for something...)

 

But choosing a battleleader for the last battle? I would choose Mat as the Super-General, with Ituralde, Angelmar and Bashere as under-generals. Helping him with strategys, and other things he might need.. (fetching coffe and so on..)

 

Possibly also a couple of clan-leaders, to give input on how to best use the Aiel.