Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

Repeating last post (in case it was missed first time); currently unable to do private messaging.

I didn't forget about you. The notice I got for your quoting me is still in my inbox, so I wouldn't forget. It's just I'm busy with ToM right now to go check TSR for Perrin's dreams. I'll do it eventually, don't worry.

 

Did Rand channel in Whitebridge when the fade came at Thom them, and is that the cause of the blue flashes?

RJ was asked about that, and he gave two answers, and insisted both were correct. The first is that the flashes began before Thom reached the Fade. The second is that Thom's favorite pair of daggers is very special indeed (i.e. Power-wrought, I think, though he didn't say that).

Oh, and Thom definitely did not channel himself. He can't channel. RJ was clear on that.

As to your idea, later books suggest that one needs to see where he channels at to do most things. I don't know if that would work, but I certainly can't dismiss the idea offhand.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Did Rand channel in Whitebridge when the fade came at Thom them, and is that the cause of the blue flashes?

 

I am currently readin EotW, and being very thorough about it due to spotting when Rand learns about the Black Ajah (will return to that another time). I have just finished the Whitebridge episode, and thought of the mystery of the blue flashes.

 

The following leaped out at me combined with knowing that next time we see Rand (it goes to Perrin for the next chapter) he is having a fever and other bad symptoms.;

The black cowl froze Rand where he stood. He tried to summon up the void, but it was like fumbling after smoke. The Fade's hidden gaze knifed to his bones and turned his marrow to icicles. [...]Rand tore his eyes away - he almost groaned; it felt like tearing a leech off of his face - but even staring at the stones he could still see the Myrddraal coming, [...]

Thom then pushes Rand who is still fixated on the Myrddraal, Thom crashes into the fade "before theblack blade was half drawn, and both went down in a thrashing heap"

Thom yells for them to run and then "the air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue".

From the description the Myrddraal has not gotten its sword out, Rand is fixated on the tableu, and the preceeding pages description of the feeling in his bones parallels the descriptions of Saidin several other places. Rand was reaching for the void and in a state of fear for his life (like the previous - and later - times he channels.

 

Jordan did say that the flashes were because "Thom's best knives are very special indeed." But, he also said that Thom's best knives were not Power Wrought Blades. So how "Thom's best knives" caused the blue flashes has never really been explained.

[Nooska]

The statement RJ made about the flashes starting before Thom reached the fade are incorrect (in neither of my EotW versions are they mentioned before Thom has taken down the fade) - unless he means that the cause started before Thom reached the fade (which doesn't preclude Rand channeling, since that starst aboutt 1 page (paperback) before the flashes.

 

As to having to see, Rand was still looking at Thom and the Fade when the flashes came, then he turned around / got turned and fled (along with half of whitebridge). As to Thoms knifes, he is holding them, but the fade does not have its sword drawn when Thom bears down on it, and the powerwrougth / thakan'dar forged effect can't be the cause of the flashes the way the encounter is written.

 

IF rand did not channel, what caused his fever? (I haven't reached that yet, so I can't remember if there is an obvious alternate reason for the fever)

[Durinax]

rand didnt get a fever until a few days later I believe, after he kills hark and escapes the inn in 4 kings

 

the flashes are curious

 

what I find really strange is the dagger that mat takes from the fox faced lady when rand cannot hold himself up due to using the power, it is a blade that feels cool to the touch but burns anything it is stabbed into, like when it gets stabbedi nto a piece of wood and it starts smoldering, then when tossed into a bucket the water starts hissing.

 

why do we only see this kind of thing once, not counting SL stuff because that is corrupted stuff by the evil that they found.

[WhiskyJack]

What were flashes supposed to be? Twice Rand channeled and both times those weaves created something meaningful (weariness drawn from the horse and lightning hitting the window. 4th July celebration is sky will do what? Or he was so scared that he just flashed? Power never came to him unless he was truly desperate. At that moment, he wasn't.

[Durinax]

i always figured that the flashes where basically sunlight off of oiled steel

[didymos]

Rand channeling is probably the best explanation for the blue flashes at Whitebridge. When Moraine and Co. show up, people refuse to explain what happened, but everyone in town is completely freaked out. A bunch of random buildings are burnt down. People claim someone knocked over a lantern, but not a single burnt building stands next to another. A few women confide in Moiraine that, really, someone was meddling with the Power, and they think it might have been a man.

 

OK, so what about the "Rand couldn't see" thing? Well, look at what happened in aPoD when he didn't have adequate control of saidin: a bunch of lightning nailed a bunch of people behind him. Also, consider what happens just a little while after Whitebridge: Rand is desperate to escape from Howal Gode, and while watching the door begin to open, he calls lightning and it hits the bars of the window he isn't looking at and blows the wall behind him open. Mat had to tell him what had happened.

 

So, I say Rand called some lightning and it just randomly nailed the area he was running from, and set some buildings on fire. And yes, I know the blue flashes are associated with OP-wrought weapons and myrrddraal swords. But not exclusively. That also occurs with lightning, and far, far more often (especially when the Power is involved, though not always). Seriously, it happens a whole lot:

 

tSR:

 

Whirling it hilt uppermost, he drove it down. Into the stone floor. Bluish lightning arced wildly toward the dome above.

 

A bar of white-hot fire ten feet tall streaked between the pair in a blur surrounded by arcing blue lightning...

 

tFoH:

 

Stark silver-blue lightning struck into the Aiel...

 

Lightnings arched silver and blue around the ter'angreal...

 

LoC:

 

Thunder boomed again, and lightning sheeted blue across the sky.

 

aCoS:

 

All save Dashiva, who made blue lightnings crackle in a jagged web above the square.

 

aPoD:

 

On the horizon to the south lightning flashed,dozens of bolts vivid silver-blue against the afternoon sky...

 

Elayne screamed, falling backwards, out of sight of the farmyard, and silver-blue lightning shot through the gateway with a roar that filled her ears...

 

Thunder tolled repeatedly, and lightning writhed in silver-blue snakes...

 

Lightning flashes filled the entrance with blue-white light...

 

Lightning flashed out of the sky, blue-white bolts shattering earth and men alike.

 

Lightning streaked down into the forest not far from where the tall flames had bloomed, single slashes like jagged blue-white lances.

 

A hundred bolts at once, hundreds, forked blue-white shafts stabbing down as far as he could see.

 

WH:

 

Lightnings such as Cadsuane had never seen streaked down from the cloudless sky, not jagged bolts but lances of silver-blue that struck at the hilltop where she stood...

 

CoT:

 

...the black sky split with more lightning than any storm had ever birthed, silver-blue streaks stabbing down inside the walls.

 

Lightning lit up the wagon's windows with a blue flash...

 

Lightning forked silver-blue across the sky...

 

KoD:

 

That silver-blue lightning, three-tined, five-tined, was striking inside Caemlyn, causing damage and maybe deaths.

 

Lightning began flashing down out of a clear sky, silver-blue bolts that struck the ground...

 

Silver-blue bolts struck continuously so close to the house that the hair on Rand's arms and chest tried to lift, the hair on his head.

 

Silver-blue lightning bolts forked down, and most of those struck too.

 

Lightning began flashing down out of a clear sky, silver-blue bolts that struck the ground with thunderous crashes and threw men and horses like splashed mud.

 

 

And now look at one of the similes for the blue weapon flashes RJ used in tEotW:

 

...a flash of blue light filling the air like sheet lightning.

 

And again in tDR:

 

The night air flashed actinic blue, like sheet lightning...

 

In tSR:

 

...light flashed like sheet lightning in the room, a sharp bluish-white that hurt the eyes

 

...black blades meeting his raven-marked steel with flashes of blue light like sheet lightning...

 

tFoH:

 

...blue light flashed around them, a crackle of sheet lightning...

 

Like sheet lightning, eh?

 

Sheet lightning is an informally applied name to cloud-to-cloud lightning that exhibits a diffuse brightening of the surface of a cloud caused by the actual discharge path being hidden. Also it can be applied when the lightning itself cannot be seen by the spectator, so it appears as only a flash, or a sheet of light.

 

Now add in the fact that lightning is just about the most common offensive use of the OP throughout the entire series. Hell, it's the official symbol for sul'dam, and the Asha'man use it in their recruiting slogan ("Wield the lightnings"). So, someone either channeled lightning in Whitebridge, someone else besides Thom showed up with Power-wrought steel and started fighting the Fade, or something totally unknown happened for unknown reasons and it just so happened to mimic the flashes of OP-steel and lightning.

 

The best fit to the facts and the simplest explanation is that Rand did it.

Edited November 4, 2010 by didymos

[didymos]

what I find really strange is the dagger that mat takes from the fox faced lady when rand cannot hold himself up due to using the power, it is a blade that feels cool to the touch but burns anything it is stabbed into, like when it gets stabbed into a piece of wood and it starts smoldering, then when tossed into a bucket the water starts hissing.

 

The blade did not feel cool to the touch. The hilt did. No one ever touched the blade in that scene. Also, some more appear in tSR, when a couple Gray Men make an attempt to kill "Ordeith":

Later Bornhald had buried the daggers deep. Those blades looked to be steel, but a touch seared like molten metal. The first earth thrown on them in the pit had hissed and steamed.

[Durinax]

what I find really strange is the dagger that mat takes from the fox faced lady when rand cannot hold himself up due to using the power, it is a blade that feels cool to the touch but burns anything it is stabbed into, like when it gets stabbed into a piece of wood and it starts smoldering, then when tossed into a bucket the water starts hissing.

 

The blade did not feel cool to the touch. The hilt did. No one ever touched the blade in that scene. Also, some more appear in tSR, when a couple Gray Men make an attempt to kill "Ordeith":

Later Bornhald had buried the daggers deep. Those blades looked to be steel, but a touch seared like molten metal. The first earth thrown on them in the pit had hissed and steamed.

do we have any clue how these blades are created?

[didymos]

do we have any clue how these blades are created?

 

Nope. Some secret Shadow recipe. Probably a good signing/chat/twitter/whatever question. I highly doubt they're plot-crucial, so an answer (assuming one exists) is likely. Personally, I think they're just there for evil flavor.

Edited November 4, 2010 by didymos

[Val Mickey]

Could it be that Thom used one of his flash-and-bang powders?

[didymos]

Could it be that Thom used one of his flash-and-bang powders?

 

Uh, why? Everyone had already run the hell away, and I really doubt that would help with something that sees without eyes. Also: what are you talking about? What "powder"? I don't remember that at all.

[dovien]

Either way, speculation about Whitebridge is not suitable for this particular thread. If someone makes a different thread for it then I'll post my pet theory :)

[Val Mickey]

Could it be that Thom used one of his flash-and-bang powders?

 

Uh, why? Everyone had already run the hell away, and I really doubt that would help with something that sees without eyes. Also: what are you talking about? What "powder"? I don't remember that at all.

 

Rodel's anecdote about the master juggler may not be about Thom; but if it is, maybe Thom (or maybe any gleemen) carries a flash-and-bang ball or powder with him. Whether or not it would be effective, might not be something Thom would be thinking when he's grappling with a Fade; it may work as a distraction, and that alone is worth something. Way too many 'mays' and 'mights' in it for me; but it is a simpler explanation than Thom channeling sheet lightning or a rogue male channeler saving the day or Rand channeling without a later reaction. And by Occam's razor..

[didymos]

but it is a simpler explanation than Thom channeling sheet lightning or a rogue male channeler saving the day or Rand channeling without a later reaction.

 

As far as Rand goes: what exactly, like in detail, happens after Whitebridge and before the Howal Gode incident? I don't know. Why? 'Cause it's not really covered when we finally come back to a Rand POV. It just sort of glosses over their initial days on the road by themselves, and the timeline is less than clear (and I'm not talking about the scarves thing, either. It's all very vague: "few days" this, "one afternoon" that, etc.) And what reaction was he supposed to have? Because there wasn't any great consistency: in Baerlon he got a headache and all foggy and detached, almost like he was drunk. On the river, he went a bit manic and was suicidally reckless. After Four Kings, he had a full on flu-like illness with fever and delerium. Point being, with all the Whitbridge craziness and post-Whitebridge fear and paranoia (on top of Mat's supernaturally-enhanced issues, that is), would Rand have necessarily noticed if he felt a bit off mentally, or even somewhat physically (i.e. something like that headache in Baerlon)? What's "off" in those circumstances anyway?

 

Oh yeah, BTW, we've all overlooked something rather obvious: Rand watched Thom attack the Fade. That chapter was his POV: there's absolutely no way to have the description of Thom crashing into it in that chapter unless Rand saw the whole thing. He just stands there frozen during all that, including when the flashes occurred, with Mat trying to drag him away. It wasn't until Thom's last scream of "RUN!" that he finally turned and fled the square. So, that really eliminates a lot of explanatory options. Basically, anything Rand should have been able to see is out. Unless we're talking something that could fit in his peripheral vision. It's easy to not notice that stuff if you're intent on something else in direct view.

Edited November 4, 2010 by didymos

[Durinax]

ok I realize this is not the best place to post this but the search wont work for me and i dont want to cycle through a potential few hundred pages of topics

 

the number 2000 that alviarin mentioned to elaida as a dangerous number, I believe she is referencing the last time the Black Ajah publicly moved. Moraine mentioned it in tGH at the end as rand was waking from his duel with ishy

 

sorry but i just made the connection, and couldnt remember if we came up with a good answer to what the 2000 meant (I think she said 2000 I am workin my way through a reread and I cant recall so please correct me)

[didymos]

ok I realize this is not the best place to post this but the search wont work for me and i dont want to cycle through a potential few hundred pages of topics

 

the number 2000 that alviarin mentioned to elaida as a dangerous number, I believe she is referencing the last time the Black Ajah publicly moved. Moraine mentioned it in tGH at the end as rand was waking from his duel with ishy

 

sorry but i just made the connection, and couldnt remember if we came up with a good answer to what the 2000 meant (I think she said 2000 I am workin my way through a reread and I cant recall so please correct me)

 

2000? No, that's way, way, way too high. Twenty-four. And it referred to men being gentled extra-judicially during a period after the Aiel War. I.e., the Vileness that's occasionally mentioned. Summary severing if you will, with the men just abandoned to die and given no help afterwards, with a public announcement often being made that so-and-so was a channeling male before the Red Ajah "severing squad" moved on to another target. That's what happened to Thom's nephew Owyn.

 

As far as 2000 goes, that's how long ago the Black Ajah was founded.

Edited November 5, 2010 by didymos

[Pinzarn]

Is the Guardian in Far Madding like a pseudo-stedding or a large version of Mat's medallion? More specifically, could someone BF Far Madding from a distance?

[Val Mickey]

It's a pseudo-stedding (never heard that phrase before, but it's succinct) and since it doesn't stop a weave from outside the Guardian, someone could balefire Far Madding. That's a curious notion, huh.

[Sharaman]

It's a pseudo-stedding (never heard that phrase before, but it's succinct) and since it doesn't stop a weave from outside the Guardian, someone could balefire Far Madding. That's a curious notion, huh.

Rand came close to BF-ing the Borderland armies. Assuming possession of a well, somebody could use BF inside FM as well.

[yoniy0]

It's a pseudo-stedding (never heard that phrase before, but it's succinct) and since it doesn't stop a weave from outside the Guardian, someone could balefire Far Madding. That's a curious notion, huh.

I'm not so sure. For one, I doubt Shadowspawn will hesitate to enter the city. For another, I have a strong feeling that one can't channel the TP in a stedding, and we only know of two halves to the Guardian - one that guards against sai'din and one sai'dar.

[didymos]

For another, I have a strong feeling that one can't channel the TP in a stedding

 

At one time, Jordan RAFOed this, though he may have started to say "Yes". But later, he decided to give a straight answer: no, you can't.

[yoniy0]

Repeating last post (in case it was missed first time); currently unable to do private messaging.

Okay. I didn't find anything in Perrin's meetings with Hopper in TSR. Nevertheless, I did find this quote from Winter's Heart that could be interpreted as Hopper kicking Perrin out. Or not, you decide.

Hear me, cub! Hopper thought at him fiercely. "Your mind is twisted with fear! She is not here, and you will die if you remain longer, find her in the waking world. You can only find her there. Go back, and find her!

Perrin's eyes snapped open.

[mb]

Repeating last post (in case it was missed first time); currently unable to do private messaging.

Okay. I didn't find anything in Perrin's meetings with Hopper in TSR. Nevertheless, I did find this quote from Winter's Heart that could be interpreted as Hopper kicking Perrin out. Or not, you decide.

Hear me, cub! Hopper thought at him fiercely. "Your mind is twisted with fear! She is not here, and you will die if you remain longer, find her in the waking world. You can only find her there. Go back, and find her!

Perrin's eyes snapped open.

Might be; but since the book has the event in flashback, it is difficult to tell for certain.

[missmarissa]

Has anyone else noticed that the chapter end symbol of the snake and wheel looks like the outline of mickey mouse? I thought I had asked this before but have had no answers. :(