Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Amys and Sorilea go off and chat during the chase to Dumai's Wells. Perrin decides from the smell that Sorilea comes back the boss.

But there's all the guff about Avi refusing to accept authority in order to become a WO.

So Sorilea is like Granny Weatherwax - the leader that the WO dont have.

 

[Luckers]

How do the wise ones choose who leads? is it just whoever is the best leader or is there something else going on?

Egwene mentions in aCoS that she hasn't figured out how they do it... but Egwene and all AS seem so blind sometimes that maybe choosing a leader based on her leadership qualities is so confusing for them they can't figure it out.

 

Obviously the wise ones don't choose based on ability in the one power.... any thoughts? has this been figured out already?

 

Verin notes that at times one Wise One will defer to another, and then the next day the order will reverse. My opinion is that the Wise One's keep track of skill in specific disciplines and that the one with the greatest skill in the area in question is the one to whom the others defer. I reckon they keep track of this through their jewellery--Aviendha says at one stage something about earning jewellery--I'll see if I can find the link.

 

Of course Sorilea and Amys are something a bit different--but that's because of there own natures, their higher position is not something resulting from a set rank.

[Nightstrike]

...

The Knitting Circle found it strange, to say the least, that women as young as Elayne and Nynaeve gave orders to the other Aes Sedai and were obeyed. Aviendha herself found it peculiar; how could strength in the Power, something you were born with as surely as your eyes, weigh more heavily than  the honor that years could bring? Yet the older Aes Sedai did obey, and for the Kinswomen, that was enough.

...

 

 

(Amys and Sorilea are old and have accumulated much honor.)

 

 

[Luckers]

That it takes time to attain honour does not mean that time passed infers honour incurred. Amys for instance, is little more than fourty, yet aside from Sorilea holds the highest position amongst the Wise Ones.

[Nightstrike]

Yeah, Amys probably has been very busy doing honorable deeds. As the Aiel sees them.

 

During time when toh is met ("payed for", or whatever it should be called), then maybe they "step down" temporarily. Letting others fill in for them. When toh is met, then it is as if the thing they did had never happened. Maybe that's a part of the explanation as well?

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

I see no reason to think that. Honour attained is honour attained.

[Nightstrike]

I don't disagree on that. I'd say honor  attained is honor attained.

 

But toh has to be met. You can't lead others if you're currently doing useless labor. Or whatever it is they happen to be doing to meet their particular toh.

 

[balefireruinssteaks]

In Lord of Chaos, when Elayne and Birgitte are scouring the Rahad to find the Bowl of Winds, they note that Adeleas is in the area.  In one scene, she almost gets stabbed but she wraps the attackers in Air, lifts them to the second story of a building and throws them through a window.

 

However, before they left Salidar Adeleas and Vandene both note that they are not strong enough to make gateways.  When Siuan finds out her Healed strength is much less she makes the comment that lifting something with Air is one of the most difficult things in channeling. 

 

Is it difficult because of skill?  Or the amount of the Power you have to use?  If Adeleas can't create a gateway but can lift an attacker to the second story of a building...that confused me.

[yoniy0]

Is it difficult because of skill?  Or the amount of the Power you have to use?  If Adeleas can't create a gateway but can lift an attacker to the second story of a building...that confused me.

Well, first of all, Siuan is weaker than Adeleas was. Second, Traveling wasn't yet known when Siuan made that remark, so you can't take it as her comparing the two. All in all, I say we have no conflicting evidence on the fact that lifting one man is easier than making a gateway. Unless I'm missing something?

[algspkr]

In Lord of Chaos, when Elayne and Birgitte are scouring the Rahad to find the Bowl of Winds, they note that Adeleas is in the area.  In one scene, she almost gets stabbed but she wraps the attackers in Air, lifts them to the second story of a building and throws them through a window.

 

However, before they left Salidar Adeleas and Vandene both note that they are not strong enough to make gateways.  When Siuan finds out her Healed strength is much less she makes the comment that lifting something with Air is one of the most difficult things in channeling. 

 

Is it difficult because of skill?  Or the amount of the Power you have to use?  If Adeleas can't create a gateway but can lift an attacker to the second story of a building...that confused me.

 

Now that you point this out I am puzzled too, Siuan's exact line is "True, the simple act of picking something up was one of the hardest in channeling, but she had been able to lift nearly three times her own weight." 

 

I believe that the weaves to lift something are simple, but require a deceptively large amount of strength.  I know that creating a gateway requires a significant amount of strength and it is a very complex weave.  I would guess that a gateway requires the strength to lift two people and Adeleas can only lift one.  These numbers are obviously far from accurate, but I believe that the order is correct.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I guess i'm thinking of it like this:

 

Adeleas can lift one man two stories high, but she cannot create a gateway.  She specifically said that "it seems that some of us are not strong enough for some of the newer things" so that made me think that though a gateway's weaving is complex anyone can do it.  But to make it work it requires a lot of strength.  

 

Sorilea can weave the making of a gateway, but it's far too weak to do anything and just falls apart when she shows it to Cadsuane.  Rand mentions that if he wove a gateway Sammael would be able to feel it anywhere in the city of Illian, or at least if someone wove a gateway he would be able to feel it anywhere within whatever palace he was in.

 

Lifting a person requires simply Air...but for some reason it's "one of the hardest in channeling" so I was just curious why?  If Adeleas can lift someone two stories but can't create a gateway that seems funny to me.

[papertiger]

What's Galad's exact relation to Moiraine by blood? Just wondering if he has a solid claim to the Sun Throne. If Min's vision is right then Galad and Berelain are getting married. She spent a lot of time managing affairs in Cairhien, so...

 

This is a prelude to a theory that involves the potential future borders and leaders of the nations post-Tarmon Gaidon. I couldn't find anywhere else to post it. I understand the fact that Elayne's already made her claim and Galad's in charge of The Children of the Light now, but the Seanchan are in Amadicia and they don't hold Galad in favor. I know that Berelain has Hawkwing credentials, so that might help, but I'm thinking something different happens.

 

Perrin [Wolf King] takes everything from Baerlon to the River Eldar and Manetherendrelle, while Beslan takes everything south of the Eldar including Amador, and Roedric is appointed King by the Seanchan, solidifying and/or expanding Murandy's border. That means Elayne is stuck with Seanchan to the south and a "rebellion" in the west, which she can't stop, since a taveren is behind it. That should make her pretty busy, leaving Galad and Berelain free to take Cairhien, with Darlin to the South in Tear. Of course, maybe Caraline claims the Sun Throne instead, but I always imagined that Berelain had big things ahead of her.

 

The only one I can't figure out is Illian. There aren't any Illianers worth noting in the series besides Domon, and he's nothing more that Egeanin's pet.

[Luckers]

What's Galad's exact relation to Moiraine by blood? Just wondering if he has a solid claim to the Sun Throne. If Min's vision is right then Galad and Berelain are getting married. She spent a lot of time managing affairs in Cairhien, so...

 

 

Galad, Gawyn, and Elayne as Moiraine's nephews and neice. There father, Taringail, was Moiraine's half brother.

[Nightstrike]

Adeleas can lift 2 women 2 stories up. So she can lift one man (2 women weighs more than 1 man).

 

Making a useable Gateway requires it being big enough for you to fit through without any problems. So she might be able to make one smaller than needed. Horses or other stuff would need even bigger sizes.

 

I believe that the weaves to lift something are simple, but require a deceptively large amount of strength.

So Egwene is more than 2-3 times Adeleas strength? I don't think so. I think it's according to the expected strength (directly proportional to strength). So that if you're 2.2 times stronger, then you can lift approximately 2.2 times as much.

 

"Deceptively large amount of strength" could mean that more power has to be put into lifting somehing than the force you can get out of less precise manipulations. Like stirring up wind or Hardened air or protective shields (out of Air, mostly).

 

[bronnt]

As for Adeleas' ability to lift a man two stories high, she might have just been particularly strong in Air.  sometimes channelers are particularly adept at using certain elements, as we well know.  It's difficult to make relative comparisons for strength based on this evidence when we don't know what the factors are behind it.

[Nightstrike]

Air & Water are both strong among females. So strength in those are common among most women.

 

If it had been 3 men with different lifting capacities, then it might have been more uncertain. Since one of them could be really weak and one could be really (unusually) strong.

 

Egwene can lift more than 4 women. Siuan can lift almost 3 times her own weight. Adeleas can lift 2 women.

 

New Spring, chapter 3:

Holding two weaves at once was more than twice as taxing as one, three more than twice as wearing as two. Beyond that, difficult no longer sufficed as a description, though it could be done.

I'd say that Adeleas is close to the median of Aes Sedai strength, Siuan used to be around 50 percent stronger than median AS strength, and Egwene is stronger than twice the median of AS strength.

 

Powerlifting:

(my own lifting capacity approximations)

0.8-1.0 Siuan lifted = limit to become Aes Sedai

1.2 Siuan lifted = weaker Siuan

2.0 Siuan lifted = median of Aes Sedai strength

3.0 Siuan lifted = stronger Siuan

4.5 Siuan lifted = Egwene

around 7 Siuan lifted = Nynaeve

around 9 Siuan lifted = Lanfear at her peak

 

 

[garryowen]

What's Galad's exact relation to Moiraine by blood? Just wondering if he has a solid claim to the Sun Throne. If Min's vision is right then Galad and Berelain are getting married. She spent a lot of time managing affairs in Cairhien, so...

 

 

Galad, Gawyn, and Elayne as Moiraine's nephews and neice. There father, Taringail, was Moiraine's half brother.

 

So does Galad have a different mother then? I thought for sure that Galad was only half brother to Gawyn and Elayne.

[garryowen]

I hope this question is simple enough. The answer may be somewhere on the forum already and I just haven't seen it before, if so please link the thread for me.

 

At the end of TDR, when Rand takes Callandor and uses it to kill Ishamael, the flaw that is noticed later in the series doesn't seem to deter Rand when hunting Ishy. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that he is using Callandor in TAR, but for some reason Ishy's corpse ends up in the REAL heart of the Stone. Did I miss something in the book that would help piece this broken string of events together for me?

 

Ch. 55, TDR, "What is written in Prophecy"

"Rand pulled Callandor's blade free as Ba'alzamon's body sagged and began to fall, the shadow around him vanishing.

And suddenly Rand was in another Heart of the Stone, surrounded by columns still whole, and fighting men screaming and dying, veiled men and men in breastplates and helmets. Moiraine still lay crumpled at the base of a redstone column. And at Rand's feet lay the body of a man, sprawled on its back with a hole burned through the chest."

 

I'm also fairly sure that this isn't the corpse of Be'lal, because Moiraine balefired him before rand took Callandor.

[yoniy0]

So does Galad have a different mother then? I thought for sure that Galad was only half brother to Gawyn and Elayne.

Of course. Galad's mother is Tigraine Mantear, at the time the Daughter Heir of Andor, who later went to the Waste and finally returned with the clans that came to avenge Laman's crime, gave birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount and died shortly thereafter.

 

I hope this question is simple enough. The answer may be somewhere on the forum already and I just haven't seen it before, if so please link the thread for me.

 

At the end of TDR, when Rand takes Callandor and uses it to kill Ishamael, the flaw that is noticed later in the series doesn't seem to deter Rand when hunting Ishy. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that he is using Callandor in TAR, but for some reason Ishy's corpse ends up in the REAL heart of the Stone. Did I miss something in the book that would help piece this broken string of events together for me?

I think Rand was inexperienced enough at the time to do all sorts of stuff unconsciously. For example, he might have opened a gateway back to the real world. But more likely, RJ wasn't yet sure of exactly how he wanted those things to work. A lot of stuff that happened during books 1-3 feels to me like RJ was still working out the exact details, so the magic system isn't completely consistent.

[garryowen]

I think Rand was inexperienced enough at the time to do all sorts of stuff unconsciously. For example, he might have opened a gateway back to the real world. But more likely, RJ wasn't yet sure of exactly how he wanted those things to work. A lot of stuff that happened during books 1-3 feels to me like RJ was still working out the exact details, so the magic system isn't completely consistent.

 

Perhaps you're right. There is mention of Rand entering TAR via a gateway to hunt Ishamael, and then when he returns to reality he just sort of... returns to reality without any identified mechanics. It just kind of bugs me that Ishamael's body followed Rand back out of TAR. Rand smokes Ishy in TAR with Callandor, as the above quote shows. Both Rand and Ishy have entered TAR in the flesh at that point. After Rand kills Ishy he, by unknown means, exits TAR and finds Ishy's body has followed him into reality. It seemed like more of a "blink" type of teleportation rather than the usual "pass through a wormhole" teleportation. Unless, Rand unconsciously took himself and Ishy out of TAR right before he makes the kill then looks up to realize that he has returned to reality.

[Luckers]

Keep discussion about One Power strength in the thread about it. This is for simple question and response.

[Crossroad]

If the DO wins what sort of Time will we have Linear or Circular?

[Luckers]

I'm guessing there will be no time at all, whatever the Forsaken may think.

[Multitask]

Hello there, I'm new here my first post, so I'm sorry if it has already been answered somewhere else (I read through the whole thread, a very interesting read I must say).

 

In the firs book EoTW, Min tells Rand about a few visions she has of him during his stay in Bearlon. If I recall correctly one of these was about a "golden hand". And as we know, Rand loses his hand in one of the later books.

 

Is there a connection between these two incidents? I'm appealed to believe he will regain his hand somehow, thought the connections are quite weak.

[algspkr]

Hello there, I'm new here my first post, so I'm sorry if it has already been answered somewhere else (I read through the whole thread, a very interesting read I must say).

 

In the firs book EoTW, Min tells Rand about a few visions she has of him during his stay in Bearlon. If I recall correctly one of these was about a "golden hand". And as we know, Rand loses his hand in one of the later books.

 

Is there a connection between these two incidents? I'm appealed to believe he will regain his hand somehow, thought the connections are quite weak.

 

I don't remember how it was described possibly bloody, but it was definitely something bad, not golden.  The general consensus is that the vision was fulfilled when Rand lost it.