Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Terez]

Not new at all, that's how all the Fades and Trollocs got to the Two Rivers in Perrin's glory days. Perrin got Loial to lock the Waygate remember? Which would have worked out if not for Slayer.

 

Edited to add: Also when Graendal attacked Perrin and Galad, they were using a Portal Stone then to Port the Trollocs in. As RJ (or was it BS?) said, foreshadowing goes back as well as forth.

 

No, I meant new as in pre our story. Them using waygates and portal stones started when Fain came with the trollocs. Before that, I got the impression they really didn't use it, so I suppose the Fade walked cross country with his pony (why would he do that when he could just shadowtravel)

 

Why would you assume they weren't shadowtraveling?

[Terez]

Paleeeaze explain then. I write databases, don't monitor them... You're a fount of information Terez but why not post a link in the first place instead of what you do first off?

 

What does this have to do with the database? You've already read the passage and the evidence; you even quoted from it if I recall. What more is needed?

[Vardar]

Not new at all, that's how all the Fades and Trollocs got to the Two Rivers in Perrin's glory days. Perrin got Loial to lock the Waygate remember? Which would have worked out if not for Slayer.

 

Edited to add: Also when Graendal attacked Perrin and Galad, they were using a Portal Stone then to Port the Trollocs in. As RJ (or was it BS?) said, foreshadowing goes back as well as forth.

 

No, I meant new as in pre our story. Them using waygates and portal stones started when Fain came with the trollocs. Before that, I got the impression they really didn't use it, so I suppose the Fade walked cross country with his pony (why would he do that when he could just shadowtravel)

 

Why would you assume they weren't shadowtraveling?

 

If they had the horses I meant.

[Terez]

Even still?

[Lisa Campbell]

Paleeeaze explain then. I write databases, don't monitor them... You're a fount of information Terez but why not post a link in the first place instead of what you do first off?

 

What does this have to do with the database? You've already read the passage and the evidence; you even quoted from it if I recall. What more is needed?

 

Well paraphrased to be technical but my post was in relation to the one just before mine (copied below). And because I get the perception that because you founded/control the database, are known as Quotemistress and seem to link to it when asked, I think you get what I mean. It would just be nicer if you said something like "But we do because +link".

 

He ordered her to keep her eyes closed while he was doing it, for whatever reason.

And therefore we don't know that it really was his shadow-traveling ability that he used there.

 

Oh, but we do.

 

Not new at all, that's how all the Fades and Trollocs got to the Two Rivers in Perrin's glory days. Perrin got Loial to lock the Waygate remember? Which would have worked out if not for Slayer.

 

Edited to add: Also when Graendal attacked Perrin and Galad, they were using a Portal Stone then to Port the Trollocs in. As RJ (or was it BS?) said, foreshadowing goes back as well as forth.

 

No, I meant new as in pre our story. Them using waygates and portal stones started when Fain came with the trollocs. Before that, I got the impression they really didn't use it, so I suppose the Fade walked cross country with his pony (why would he do that when he could just shadowtravel)

 

Why would you assume they weren't shadowtraveling?

 

If they had the horses I meant.

 

I interpret that they don't/can't shadow slide with the horses because we haven't seen it. If I am forgetting, please remind me.

[Terez]

For example, when the first Fade Rand saw disappeared. It was riding; it disappeared with its horse.

[Vardar]

For example, when the first Fade Rand saw disappeared. It was riding; it disappeared with its horse.

 

I thought it rode off...

[thisguy]

If I remember right, he saw it, looked away, look back, it was gone and so was its horse.

[Lisa Campbell]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

[thisguy]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

[Suttree]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

[Vardar]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

 

Not to mention where was the shadow? We know noon like light can keep Fades from doing it (Fain's POV) so if he was in the midle of the road, even if he did his shadow trick, he had to go to the trees to do it, and cover. Maybe he was just in the trees (What I assumed)

[Vardar]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

 

 

I think we're discussing how we know.

[Suttree]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

 

 

I think we're discussing how we know.

 

As so I guess someone has already mentioned SH pulling a forsaken through?

[Vardar]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

 

 

I think we're discussing how we know.

 

As so I guess someone has already mentioned SH pulling a forsaken through?

 

Yep someone mentioned it. They mentioned him making her close her eyes, so if that's what he did to her (How did Agi not learn about it if he studied it) how do you make a horse close it's eyes.

 

I think that's the basic discussion.

 

I just wanna know how the hell fades raise horses.

[Lisa Campbell]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

 

 

I think we're discussing how we know.

 

As so I guess someone has already mentioned SH pulling a forsaken through?

 

Yes I did earlier but, as SH has super powers Sutts, I'm inclined to think that normal Fades (who are unnatural I agree so unnaturally disappearing does not mean shadow sliding necessarily) can't do the same. Moghedien thought her head was gonna get smashed. I think even she was surprised at SH's ability.

[Vardar]

How long did it take Rand to answer Tam when questioned on what had spooked him? More than seconds is my guess. How far can a silent galloping horse travel in say 20 seconds to a minute (at a guess)? Especially when the viewer doesn't expect a disappearance act. Bare branched trees still provide cover. The Aiel can find cover in any landscape, a fold of land you wouldn't think a cat could hide in. Fades are certainly sneakier in my opinion.

It was maybe 30 seconds is my guess. There's no way to know. But, the writing gives the feeling that it was an unnatural act, from what I remember.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

 

 

I think we're discussing how we know.

 

As so I guess someone has already mentioned SH pulling a forsaken through?

 

Yes I did earlier but, as SH has super powers Sutts, I'm inclined to think that normal Fades (who are unnatural I agree so unnaturally disappearing does not mean shadow sliding necessarily) can't do the same. Moghedien thought her head was gonna get smashed. I think even she was surprised at SH's ability.

 

yep, and it's said that Agi studied this ability, killing countless fades. If he studied it, I think he'd have mentioned they can carry people like that. I mean the first thing he should have done is see how it was done and experience it if possible.

[Terez]

Well, we saw Shaidar Haran do it with Moghedien, so we know it can be done. We don't know why he asked her to close her eyes; I doubt it's necessary for the mechanics, though, so horses not closing their eyes is absolutely irrelevant. More likely he didn't want her to see what he was doing.

[Knivy]

Well, we saw Shaidar Haran do it with Moghedien, so we know it can be done. We don't know why he asked her to close her eyes; I doubt it's necessary for the mechanics, though, so horses not closing their eyes is absolutely irrelevant. More likely he didn't want her to see what he was doing.

this.

 

EDIT: I doubt fades would do it for a bunch of trollocs, though. So however the Trollocs got to Two Rivers, thats how the horses got their too.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Knivy

[thisguy]

Well, we saw Shaidar Haran do it with Moghedien, so we know it can be done. We don't know why he asked her to close her eyes; I doubt it's necessary for the mechanics, though, so horses not closing their eyes is absolutely irrelevant. More likely he didn't want her to see what he was doing.

this.

 

EDIT: I doubt fades would do it for a bunch of trollocs, though. So however the Trollocs got to Two Rivers, thats how the horses got their too.

I thought they were pretty certain they used the Ways. At least, that's what they guessed at some point later.

[Terez]

Yeah, the Fades probably had to accompany the Trollocs through the Ways. But Fades can get around without that.

[thisguy]

Yeah, definitely.

[yoniy0]

Where do you think Fain leaned it from then?

Ishamael? At the time, Fain had someone to explain the workings of the Ways.

 

He ordered her to keep her eyes closed while he was doing it, for whatever reason.

And therefore we don't know that it really was his shadow-traveling ability that he used there.

Oh, but we do.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but we know they can pull others into their "shadow travel".

I really don't understand how you're both so certain. Unless there's something I'm forgetting or simply don't know (in which case, I'll appreciate an explanation over a simple confirmation ), I see no certainty here. First, Moghedien doesn't see anything, so it's always possible that Moridin provided transportation (we know he hears the DO wherever he is, so the coordination would present no difficulty). Second, this is Shayol Ghul we're talking about; for all we know, her prison might've moved to the room next to Moridin's hall, and a door might've appeared to admit her. Third, and BTW I like this option much less, it's possible this is something else SH can do that has nothing to do with shadow-jumping, such as disconnecting FS from the source, making black fire appear, binding and floating Mesaana etc.

[Morsker]

I really don't understand how you're both so certain. Unless there's something I'm forgetting or simply don't know (in which case, I'll appreciate an explanation over a simple confirmation ), I see no certainty here. First, Moghedien doesn't see anything, so it's always possible that Moridin provided transportation (we know he hears the DO wherever he is, so the coordination would present no difficulty). Second, this is Shayol Ghul we're talking about; for all we know, her prison might've moved to the room next to Moridin's hall, and a door might've appeared to admit her. Third, and BTW I like this option much less, it's possible this is something else SH can do that has nothing to do with shadow-jumping, such as disconnecting FS from the source, making black fire appear, binding and floating Mesaana etc.

I agree, especially with the bolded part. She was being kept in a vacuole, and I always assumed the Dark One just fuzzed space and time to get her into the next room; it's said somewhere that "reality is clay" to him around Shayol Ghul.

 

I don't like the idea of Myrddraal being able to transport people, because I think it's so powerful that we would have seen it used by now, to free Moghedien without Halima's help, or transport high-ranking Darkfriends or do kidnappings. The horses could be special if they're raised in the pony farm city in the Blight, or if the Myrdrraal has some special bond with them.

[Sid]

The thing Moiraine did to get rid of her invisibility illusion's residue in the blight that sounds like what's later called 'Unweaving' in TPoD: it seems she should be well aware of the extreme danger with several important people nearby (the Dragon Reborn and two other ta'veren). Is this just another case of an early bookism, or does she have yet another secret Talent like Avi has?