Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Maleshub]

If Tenobia, Bashere, and Faile die, would Perrin become King of Saldea?

I don't know if the spouse of the rightful heir can claim the throne for his own. I guess not. If Tenobia and Bashere die, he will be either king of king-consort of Saldaea.

 

And if Faile dies?

[fikkie77]

His oldest child or cousin (on Failes side) would take over.

 

You're not living in a monarchy, are you?

The Dutch Queen is Queen Beatrice. If she dies or resigns, her son Willem-Alexander will take over as King William IV. He is married to princess Maxima, who will (hopefully) become Queen Maxima. If anything should happen to King William IV, Maxima won't take over or stay Queen: she doesn't have the right on her own (only through her husband). The throne would pass to their eldest child: princess Catharina-Amalia (probably under the name of Queen Catherine).

There has been one exception: when King Wiliam III died, the only living child left (he had sons, but they died before their father), princess Wilhelmina was too young to take the throne. There was no other heir. Her mother was named Queen-Regent and reigned until Wilhelmina reached the age of 18.

[Terez]

If Tenobia, Bashere, and Faile die, would Perrin become King of Saldea?

 

Yes, though it's not necessary for Faile to die. This was confirmed in the glossary of TOM. You also might say it was confirmed by Verin back in TSR:

 

"Could I only split myself into three, I would latch one onto each of you and follow you every moment of the day and night even if I had to marry you."

 

"I already have a wife." It felt odd, saying that. Odd, and good. He had a wife, and she was safe.

 

She shattered his moment of reverie. "Yes, you do. But you do not know what marrying Zarine Bashere means, do you?" She reached up to turn his axe in its loop on his belt, studying it. "When are you going to give this up for the hammer?"

 

Staring at the Aes Sedai, he reined Stepper back a pace, pulling the axe out of her hands, before he knew it. What marrying Faile meant? Give up the axe? What did she mean? What did she know?

 

And you might say Brandon confirmed it too.

 

 

You're not living in a monarchy, are you?

 

Not sure why you think all monarchies should follow the same rules as the Dutch one, since there have been varying approaches to succession in European history alone.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Terez

[fikkie77]

He can't hold the throne without Faile. He will be King with Faile as Queen.

At least as long monarchy in WOT works as in real life.

[Terez]

Again, you say that as if it only works one way.

[fikkie77]

You may come with examples.

This is simply how it works.

[Maleshub]

If Tenobia, Bashere, and Faile die, would Perrin become King of Saldea?

 

Yes, though it's not necessary for Faile to die. This was confirmed in the glossary of TOM. You also might say it was confirmed by Verin back in TSR:

 

"Could I only split myself into three, I would latch one onto each of you and follow you every moment of the day and night even if I had to marry you."

 

"I already have a wife." It felt odd, saying that. Odd, and good. He had a wife, and she was safe.

 

She shattered his moment of reverie. "Yes, you do. But you do not know what marrying Zarine Bashere means, do you?" She reached up to turn his axe in its loop on his belt, studying it. "When are you going to give this up for the hammer?"

 

Staring at the Aes Sedai, he reined Stepper back a pace, pulling the axe out of her hands, before he knew it. What marrying Faile meant? Give up the axe? What did she mean? What did she know?

 

And you might say Brandon confirmed it too.

 

 

You're not living in a monarchy, are you?

 

Not sure why you think all monarchies should follow the same rules as the Dutch one, since there have been varying approaches to succession in European history alone.

 

Thanks for the clarifications, Terez!

[a5m]

They were, however, able to sense emotions through it like a link, which Setalle apparently cannot do.

 

There is no evidence in Mat's point of view one way or the other. I'd argue she could sense the problem with Joline since she immediately tried to remove the a'dam.

[Terez]

They were, however, able to sense emotions through it like a link, which Setalle apparently cannot do.

 

There is no evidence in Mat's point of view one way or the other.

 

Except that Setalle didn't react at all to putting it on—nothing like Siuan and Leane did, anyway. And why should she? But the point is that Siuan and Leane did feel something, despite not being able to actually use the a'dam.

[a5m]

They were, however, able to sense emotions through it like a link, which Setalle apparently cannot do.

 

There is no evidence in Mat's point of view one way or the other.

 

Except that Setalle didn't react at all to putting it on—nothing like Siuan and Leane did, anyway. And why should she? But the point is that Siuan and Leane did feel something, despite not being able to actually use the a'dam.

 

And Siuan and Leane where asked to participate by someone that knew what an a'dam could do. They were also questioned as to what they could sense. Siuan wasn't exactly forth coming about it. Setalle had no idea at the time what wearing the a'dam would be like so had no reason to confirm or deny that she could sense the green. Also, Siuan and Leane were wearing a modified a'dam, not an original. We're not even sure if the differences that you're claiming might not be because of the modifications that Elaine added when making the wireless a'dam.

 

Again, there isn't enough to say either way in my opinion. Maybe we'll find out in MoL as part of the story line. I, for one, am still hoping for a meeting between Setalle and Damer.

[Suttree]

Again, there isn't enough to say either way in my opinion. Maybe we'll find out in MoL as part of the story line. I, for one, am still hoping for a meeting between Setalle and Damer.

 

If she felt anyting she most likey would have commented on it. There is obviously a distinct difference between Setalle and Siuan/Leane in terms of the reaction it caused. What is the only difference between those two? Stilling v. burned out...if it turns out it was because of Elayne's modifciation that would be pretty weak imo. This explanation fits just fine and is much simpler.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Suttree

[Terez]

They were, however, able to sense emotions through it like a link, which Setalle apparently cannot do.

 

There is no evidence in Mat's point of view one way or the other.

 

Except that Setalle didn't react at all to putting it on—nothing like Siuan and Leane did, anyway. And why should she? But the point is that Siuan and Leane did feel something, despite not being able to actually use the a'dam.

 

And Siuan and Leane where asked to participate by someone that knew what an a'dam could do.

 

And Mat was watching Setalle like a hawk in hopes that she could use it. He was, in fact, freaking out a little about the possibility that she couldn't. If Setalle had felt anything through the a'dam, she would have reacted.

 

They were also questioned as to what they could sense. Siuan wasn't exactly forth coming about it.

 

How is this not forthcoming?

 

Siuan eyed her stubbornly for a moment – Light, but the woman could be obstinate! – before closing the bracelet around her wrist. A look of wonder came onto her face immediately, then her eyes narrowed at Marigan. "She hates us, but I knew that. And there’s fear, and... Shock. Not a glimmer on her face, but she’s shocked to her toes. I don’t think she believed I could use this thing, either."

 

Setalle had no idea at the time what wearing the a'dam would be like so had no reason to confirm or deny that she could sense the green.

 

No reason to deny, but plenty of reason to confirm.

 

Also, Siuan and Leane were wearing a modified a'dam, not an original.

 

It was an exact copy except the lack of chain connecting collar and bracelet. Otherwise it works exactly the same; Elayne removed the chain because she knew it wasn't part of the ter'angreal's function. (That's really grasping at straws, by the way.)

[XXX]

It should be reiterated that Siuan and Leane were not able to use the a'dam.

 

IIRC Siuan was able to punish Moggy thro the adam. I do not think it was specifically mentioned whether they could or not use the adam.

[Suttree]

It should be reiterated that Siuan and Leane were not able to use the a'dam.

 

IIRC Siuan was able to punish Moggy thro the adam. I do not think it was specifically mentioned whether they could or not use the adam.

 

She could not use it to channel...

[a5m]

It was an exact copy except the lack of chain connecting collar and bracelet. Otherwise it works exactly the same; Elayne removed the chain because she knew it wasn't part of the ter'angreal's function. (That's really grasping at straws, by the way.)

The not forthcoming part had to do with not cooperating. I'll concede that point, I remembered it wrong.

 

The exactly the same part would have meant that Marigan (Moghedien) would have been constantly sick. There was a point when they were wearing the bracelet very infrequently and Marigan seemed to always to able to do her assigned jobs no matter were they were in Salidar. Joline didn't make it two steps. It seems to me that Marigan wouldn't have been able to do anything while the bracelet was off unless the a'dam didn't quite work the same way as an original.

 

BTW, I see no straws here. Haven't you ever thought about the fact that they didn't always wear the bracelet yet Marigan could get around Salidar? Not one single reference to the woman always getting sick and not being able to heal her. I'd say that is very telling.

[XXX]

IS there a quote from the books supporting that? I only remember Moggy was terrified of Siuan having the adam.

[Edynol]

Ummm. One of them always had the bracelet on. They would take turns wearing it, but someone always had it on. But if I'm mistaken, can ya quote me a passage t hat says otherwise?

[Suttree]

IS there a quote from the books supporting that? I only remember Moggy was terrified of Siuan having the adam.

 

LoC

Siuan eyed her stubbornly for a moment – Light, but the woman could be obstinate! – before closing the bracelet around her wrist. A look of wonder came onto her face immediately, then her eyes narrowed at Marigan. "She hates us, but I knew that. And there’s fear, and... Shock. Not a glimmer on her face, but she’s shocked to her toes. I don’t think she believed I could use this thing, either."

Marigan shifted uneasily. So far only two who knew about her could use the bracelet. Four would give more chances for questions. On the surface she seemed to be cooperating fully, but how much was she hiding? As much as she could, Nynaeve was sure.

With a sigh, Siuan shook her head. "And I cannot. I should be able to touch the Source through her, isn’t that right? Well, I can’t. A grunter could climb trees first. I’ve been stilled, and that is that. How do you get this thing off?" She fumbled at the bracelet. "How do you bloody get it off?"

Gently Nynaeve laid a hand over Siuan’s on the bracelet. "Don’t you see? The bracelet won’t work for a woman who can’t channel any more than the necklace would work on her. If I put either on one of the cooks, it would be no more than a pretty piece for her."

"Cooks or no cooks," Siuan said flatly, "I cannot channel. I have been stilled."

"But there is something there to be Healed," Nynaeve insisted, "or you’d feel nothing through the bracelet."

 

It is why being burned most likely can not be healed either. You can no longer sense the source and there is no cut left to bridge.

[fionwe1987]

Ummm. One of them always had the bracelet on. They would take turns wearing it, but someone always had it on. But if I'm mistaken, can ya quote me a passage t hat says otherwise?

Elayne removes it just before she joins into Anaiya's link to help people in the Bubble of Evil in LoC. Egwene also says she removes it at night.

[XXX]

IS there a quote from the books supporting that? I only remember Moggy was terrified of Siuan having the adam.

 

LoC

Siuan eyed her stubbornly for a moment – Light, but the woman could be obstinate! – before closing the bracelet around her wrist. A look of wonder came onto her face immediately, then her eyes narrowed at Marigan. "She hates us, but I knew that. And there’s fear, and... Shock. Not a glimmer on her face, but she’s shocked to her toes. I don’t think she believed I could use this thing, either."

Marigan shifted uneasily. So far only two who knew about her could use the bracelet. Four would give more chances for questions. On the surface she seemed to be cooperating fully, but how much was she hiding? As much as she could, Nynaeve was sure.

With a sigh, Siuan shook her head. "And I cannot. I should be able to touch the Source through her, isn’t that right? Well, I can’t. A grunter could climb trees first. I’ve been stilled, and that is that. How do you get this thing off?" She fumbled at the bracelet. "How do you bloody get it off?"

Gently Nynaeve laid a hand over Siuan’s on the bracelet. "Don’t you see? The bracelet won’t work for a woman who can’t channel any more than the necklace would work on her. If I put either on one of the cooks, it would be no more than a pretty piece for her."

"Cooks or no cooks," Siuan said flatly, "I cannot channel. I have been stilled."

"But there is something there to be Healed," Nynaeve insisted, "or you’d feel nothing through the bracelet."

 

It is why being burned most likely can not be healed either. You can no longer sense the source and there is no cut left to bridge.

 

Thanks, I guess my stilled suldam idea would not work.

[a5m]

In the Lord of Chaos:

 

In the middle of Fire and Spirit...

 

With a sigh she started down the street. Elayne came along as though she had been invited. That helped Nynaeve find the anger she was going to need. Abruptly she realized that Elayne's wrists were bare. "Where is the bracelet?" she asked softly. No one in the street would understand if they heard, but caution once forgotten could be forgotten once too often. "Where is Marigan?" "The bracelet is in my pouch, Nynaeve." Elayne stepped aside to let a high-wheeled cart pass, then joined Nynaeve again be* hind the cart. "Marigan is doing our laundry, with about twenty other women around her. And groaning every time she moves. She said something she didn't think Birgitte would hear, and Birgitte.... I had to take the thing off, Nynaeve. Birgitte had the right, and it hurt. I told Marigan to say she fell down some stairs."

Nynaeve sniffed, but her heart was not in it. She had not been wearing the bracelet much of late....

 

She was working in the middle of a crowd of women. I can't imagine that she wouldn't be told to fetch something occasionally or get some more clothes to do etc. And there are other differences like here...

 

In Questions and Answers...

 

True, so long as the necklace remained on Moghedien's neck, any woman able to channel could find her with the bracelet, and control her. If no one wore the bracelet, she could not move more than a dozen paces from it without falling to her knees retching, and the same if she shifted the bracelet more than a few inches from where it had been left, or tried to unfasten the necklace herself. Maybe it would hold her even on the peg, but maybe one of the Forsaken could reason a way around that, given enough chances.

 

Joline didn't make it two steps. Certainly not a dozen paces. The two a'dam are a bit different.

[The Fisher King]

Sephie, Terez - thanks for the insights.

 

 

Fish

[Terez]

It should be reiterated that Siuan and Leane were not able to use the a'dam.

 

IIRC Siuan was able to punish Moggy thro the adam. I do not think it was specifically mentioned whether they could or not use the adam.

 

She could not use it to channel...

 

Or to punish. Leane tried to make her feel a flea bite; it didn't work. They were healed before Moghedien escaped, though.

[Suttree]

In Questions and Answers...

 

True, so long as the necklace remained on Moghedien's neck, any woman able to channel could find her with the bracelet, and control her. If no one wore the bracelet, she could not move more than a dozen paces from it without falling to her knees retching, and the same if she shifted the bracelet more than a few inches from where it had been left, or tried to unfasten the necklace herself. Maybe it would hold her even on the peg, but maybe one of the Forsaken could reason a way around that, given enough chances.

 

Joline didn't make it two steps. Certainly not a dozen paces. The two a'dam are a bit different.

 

Sorry mate but you are grasping. Everything in text leads to our interpretation. A couple of your points have already shown to be wrong and it is made quite clear the a'dam is the same except for the removal of the leash. I would be shocked if the discrepancy above was deliberate.

[Terez]

Well, the immobility aspect might have been tied to the leash itself. His grasping is more along the lines of him trying to use this as evidence that Setalle shouldn't have felt anything through the bracelet (because it's a different type). There's no evidence at all that one type of a'dam should recognize a stilled (as opposed to burned out) channeler while the other type cannot.