Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

I don't think it was about leadership, but rather whether Sulin still had toh to pay. Only she knows, as they say, but she could've been shamed by criticism. Having saved ji in the fight, perhaps they could put it aside. That's my impression, anyway.

[kght22]

So in Lord of Chaos, Chapter 54: The sending, Nandera and Sulin both seem to be responsible for the Maidens that are heading to rescue Rand. Eventually they fight and Sulin wins the fight. But after this, Nandera appears to be the leader of the Maidens. Can anyone explain this reasoning? Why isn't Sulin in charge? Clearly it's something I'm missing something about Aiel culture.

yoni might have hit it pretty close, but at the same time it was a fight, and it wasn't presented as a punishment. maybe sulin in her grey just got her ass beat. but then again i remember it as being amys and another wiseone (bair i think). and i dont remember a fight with sulin against a maiden.

 

edit: i know the wiseone fight happened in the same context, i dont remember a maiden fight

 

EDIT2: oh crap now i remember, there was a fight with the maidens, apparently sulin lost somehow, and amys and (bair?) sat down and discussed things untill when they came out amys was clearly a bit above but the other was a very close second (bair?). (didnt edit any above post in either edit)

 

edit3: still no edits above. but anyway nandera is leading because sulin hasnt met her toh for using maiden hand talk tward a maiden gai'shan when loial's mom and mentor met rand in andor. she broke her punishment when rand was captured.

 

edit4: remember among the aiel you have toh to those who you admit to have toh to, in this case the maidens. you have toh until those you have toh to tell you that your toh is met, sulin moves back to maiden without being told that her toh is met. you can have toh without realizing it, a very embarasing situation, but i dont think this applies to sulin.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Testy al'Carr

[Vardar]

Doesn't the greatest honor come from not injuring your opponent? I thought Sulin lost because she had to hit her to subdue her, thus she lost the fight. (That's how I worked it out in my mind)

[Vardar]

For some reason, I always see a shield as going around the belt area. Like where the waist is, splitting a person in half. Not sure why...

[Vardar]

I have a quesiton I never figured out. Actually a few.

1) Why did the AS with Mat not figure out how to Travel from Verin moving the Army?

2) How did Verin move Mat's Army so damn fast? Didn't the Channelers with Perrin complain about how long it takes to move a lot of men? Mat had what 5000 men? Maybe more when he met up with the rest of his peeps (I can't recall right now) but how did she manage that? Seems off to me...

[Edynol]

I think there were some ashies in the area, IIRC who helped her. Or perhapse she had an angreal we don't know about? Also, we don't really know how long it took because maybe they skipped ahead a day or so. I mean, we don't a whole page detailing how all 5k people slowly made their way through the gateway. lol.

[Vardar]

I think there were some ashies in the area, IIRC who helped her. Or perhapse she had an angreal we don't know about? Also, we don't really know how long it took because maybe they skipped ahead a day or so. I mean, we don't a whole page detailing how all 5k people slowly made their way through the gateway. lol.

 

Yea but the Ashies made it seem like it would take FOREVER for the 7 of them, holding gateways with circles. And she has a weak Angreal. They never explained it, and yea they skipped a day ahead, but all it took was a day? Really? And it still doesn't explain why the other AS didn't see the weave. It really bothered me how they skipped that part on purpose.

[Edynol]

Yea but the Ashies made it seem like it would take FOREVER for the 7 of them, holding gateways with circles. And she has a weak Angreal. They never explained it, and yea they skipped a day ahead, but all it took was a day? Really? And it still doesn't explain why the other AS didn't see the weave. It really bothered me how they skipped that part on purpose.

 

Well if it was an ashie who did the weaving, then they wouldn't have seen it. Also, when linked with saidin, can outsiders even see the actual link if they aren't a part of it? We also don't know how large the portal was. The bigger the portal, the faster it take them. Also, I don't think the entire Band was with him, only a small number. The majority were with the Salidar AS. So it wouldn't take days anyway like with Perrin's huge force.

[Finnssss22]

I have a quesiton I never figured out. Actually a few.

1) Why did the AS with Mat not figure out how to Travel from Verin moving the Army?

 

A good question and not the first it's been asked. The simple answer is...we don't know. Mostly it's assumed Verin didn't show them the making of it.

 

2) How did Verin move Mat's Army so damn fast? Didn't the Channelers with Perrin complain about how long it takes to move a lot of men? Mat had what 5000 men? Maybe more when he met up with the rest of his peeps (I can't recall right now) but how did she manage that? Seems off to me...

 

He had closer to 6500-7000 men actually. Talmanes arrived with around 8500 (3 Banners of horse consisting of 1500 each, 4000 mounted X-bowmen and half the scouts). They lost around 900 (400 X-bowmen and 500 Calvary) during his raids and whatever he lost in the ambush.

Either way, it was never said that Verin moved them overly quickly but she did have an angreal with her, the "flower brooch", so her gateway was of a greater than average size.

Big enough that Aludra's wagon fit through it.

 

You have to remember with Perrin's forces, he was talking about moving well over 50,000 and closer to 70k when they are going to the FoM at the end.

[Kathleen]

If this is supposed to be our world, how do we have this series, and how can we truely invest in the reality/delivery of it?

 

I mean, if we take this series as a true account of how Rand's life as the Dragon reborn was, and we are to believe that our world is the same world as the in the books but in a different Age, how can we have this story?

 

Clearly we're not at the point where we are in that age where the dragon is being reborn, or this series would have been destroyed and forgotten.

 

But if we are to believe that this story is a recalling tale, much past myth in our society (as it isn't even known as having really had anyone believing it, in our time), but once did happen in reality ages before now (as the set up of WoT would have us believe) wouldn't it almost have to be changed, embellished, unreliable and messed around with.

 

Think of it like a game of Telephone. The first phase gets said at the start of the phone line, and at the end it is twisted into something completely unrecognizable. I figure we are somewhere in the middle, but as we've completely forgotten the story of the dragon reborn, the DO and creator and the World being a Wheel, in our everyday society, clearly we are somewhere in the middle and our thoughts and recollections of those ages are different, changed etc.

 

So how can we think that RJ's telling of this story is accurate to how it really was/will be in that Age?

 

I hope my question makes sense...I have trouble expressing myself most of the time :)

[Barid Bel Medar]

We including the 200,000 odd refugees and such he has to send home? Even if not, as mentioned, he had like 60k (i went for the middle value haha), which consist of various factions, Alliandre's men, Berelain's. Aiel, Two Rivers, random peasants who want to fight, and some leftover Dragonsworn. A motley crew which would be hard to organize properly.

 

Mat had considerably less, as Finnssss points out. Plus, the Band are professional soldiers (by now they are anyway), they would be an orderly bunch, united under Mat . Remember in LoC when Mat is marching south at record speed? They could only have become more disciplined and efficient since then.

[Vardar]

Yea but the Ashies made it seem like it would take FOREVER for the 7 of them, holding gateways with circles. And she has a weak Angreal. They never explained it, and yea they skipped a day ahead, but all it took was a day? Really? And it still doesn't explain why the other AS didn't see the weave. It really bothered me how they skipped that part on purpose.

 

Well if it was an ashie who did the weaving, then they wouldn't have seen it. Also, when linked with saidin, can outsiders even see the actual link if they aren't a part of it? We also don't know how large the portal was. The bigger the portal, the faster it take them. Also, I don't think the entire Band was with him, only a small number. The majority were with the Salidar AS. So it wouldn't take days anyway like with Perrin's huge force.

 

There were no Ashies, Mat doesn't like men who can channel, still. It was just Verin. Also, I thought he picked up the rest of the band? (I might be wrong on this point)

[TristanWebb]

It isn't really the real world that is part of the Wheel of time. It is the world such as in any movie or tv show or book that is based somewhat in reality. It isn't supposed to be a new Holy Bible, more like the Foundation series where society progressed from a snapshot of the world to something else.

 

The interesting idea is where are the break points in ages in our history, the world has fossils so clearly there must be ages several million years long atleast where dinosaurs are stomping around so we can find them, but I am sure people can link to long discussions of this topic.

[Kathleen]

It isn't really the real world that is part of the Wheel of time. It is the world such as in any movie or tv show or book that is based somewhat in reality. It isn't supposed to be a new Holy Bible, more like the Foundation series where society progressed from a snapshot of the world to something else.

 

The interesting idea is where are the break points in ages in our history, the world has fossils so clearly there must be ages several million years long atleast where dinosaurs are stomping around so we can find them, but I am sure people can link to long discussions of this topic.

 

Ok thanks. So you're saying its our world in as much as 'the planet of the apes' is our world?

[Vardar]

I have a quesiton I never figured out. Actually a few.

1) Why did the AS with Mat not figure out how to Travel from Verin moving the Army?

 

A good question and not the first it's been asked. The simple answer is...we don't know. Mostly it's assumed Verin didn't show them the making of it.

 

2) How did Verin move Mat's Army so damn fast? Didn't the Channelers with Perrin complain about how long it takes to move a lot of men? Mat had what 5000 men? Maybe more when he met up with the rest of his peeps (I can't recall right now) but how did she manage that? Seems off to me...

 

He had closer to 6500-7000 men actually. Talmanes arrived with around 8500 (3 Banners of horse consisting of 1500 each, 4000 mounted X-bowmen and half the scouts). They lost around 900 (400 X-bowmen and 500 Calvary) during his raids and whatever he lost in the ambush.

Either way, it was never said that Verin moved them overly quickly but she did have an angreal with her, the "flower brooch", so her gateway was of a greater than average size.

Big enough that Aludra's wagon fit through it.

 

You have to remember with Perrin's forces, he was talking about moving well over 50,000 and closer to 70k when they are going to the FoM at the end.

 

Yea but even then, they talked about it taking weeks and months right (Or am I confused) and that was with multiple channelers! If Mat had 7500, and say perrin had 10 times that, it should take 10 times as much time (being really basic here). But they had multiple channelers making gateways, or at least linked with circles to make them. So it shouldn't be 10 times as long at that point, but a fraction of the time.

[TristanWebb]

It isn't really the real world that is part of the Wheel of time. It is the world such as in any movie or tv show or book that is based somewhat in reality. It isn't supposed to be a new Holy Bible, more like the Foundation series where society progressed from a snapshot of the world to something else.

 

The interesting idea is where are the break points in ages in our history, the world has fossils so clearly there must be ages several million years long atleast where dinosaurs are stomping around so we can find them, but I am sure people can link to long discussions of this topic.

 

Ok thanks. So you're saying its our world in as much as 'the planet of the apes' is our world?

Or any other scifi you can think of, yeah.

[Edynol]

There were no Ashies, Mat doesn't like men who can channel, still. It was just Verin. Also, I thought he picked up the rest of the band? (I might be wrong on this point)

 

Umm...If he still doesn't like male channelers, then why did he go to Perrin soon after and ask specifically for one of his asha'man? I recall Verin saying there were ashies there recruiting for the BT.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Edynol

[Finnssss22]

I have a quesiton I never figured out. Actually a few.

1) Why did the AS with Mat not figure out how to Travel from Verin moving the Army?

 

A good question and not the first it's been asked. The simple answer is...we don't know. Mostly it's assumed Verin didn't show them the making of it.

 

2) How did Verin move Mat's Army so damn fast? Didn't the Channelers with Perrin complain about how long it takes to move a lot of men? Mat had what 5000 men? Maybe more when he met up with the rest of his peeps (I can't recall right now) but how did she manage that? Seems off to me...

 

He had closer to 6500-7000 men actually. Talmanes arrived with around 8500 (3 Banners of horse consisting of 1500 each, 4000 mounted X-bowmen and half the scouts). They lost around 900 (400 X-bowmen and 500 Calvary) during his raids and whatever he lost in the ambush.

Either way, it was never said that Verin moved them overly quickly but she did have an angreal with her, the "flower brooch", so her gateway was of a greater than average size.

Big enough that Aludra's wagon fit through it.

 

You have to remember with Perrin's forces, he was talking about moving well over 50,000 and closer to 70k when they are going to the FoM at the end.

 

Yea but even then, they talked about it taking weeks and months right (Or am I confused) and that was with multiple channelers! If Mat had 7500, and say perrin had 10 times that, it should take 10 times as much time (being really basic here). But they had multiple channelers making gateways, or at least linked with circles to make them. So it shouldn't be 10 times as long at that point, but a fraction of the time.

 

Oh no no, Perrin moved his entire force through gateways in a matter of hour(s).

It used to take a hell of a lot longer through normal gateways, before Flinn and Neald figured out how to link with the WO's and AS to make huge gateways.

 

Just think about Rand's forces when he engaged the Seanchan in Altara. They were moving his almost equivalent (6000) small force around quite quickly through regular gateways.

 

The rest of the Band were already in Andor and camped around Caemlyn by the time Mat's group met up with Verin. Hell, they were prolly already in Andor and camped by the time Talmanes met with up with Mat.

When they split the Band, it wasn't that much difference between the distance they were from Caemlyn and the distance Talmanes was from Mat in Altara and they had to traverse the mountain pass to boot.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Finnssss

[TristanWebb]

Wasn't Perrin also set on sending them all to different places? Or was it still days to get them all to camelyn?

[Vardar]

I have a quesiton I never figured out. Actually a few.

1) Why did the AS with Mat not figure out how to Travel from Verin moving the Army?

 

A good question and not the first it's been asked. The simple answer is...we don't know. Mostly it's assumed Verin didn't show them the making of it.

 

2) How did Verin move Mat's Army so damn fast? Didn't the Channelers with Perrin complain about how long it takes to move a lot of men? Mat had what 5000 men? Maybe more when he met up with the rest of his peeps (I can't recall right now) but how did she manage that? Seems off to me...

 

He had closer to 6500-7000 men actually. Talmanes arrived with around 8500 (3 Banners of horse consisting of 1500 each, 4000 mounted X-bowmen and half the scouts). They lost around 900 (400 X-bowmen and 500 Calvary) during his raids and whatever he lost in the ambush.

Either way, it was never said that Verin moved them overly quickly but she did have an angreal with her, the "flower brooch", so her gateway was of a greater than average size.

Big enough that Aludra's wagon fit through it.

 

You have to remember with Perrin's forces, he was talking about moving well over 50,000 and closer to 70k when they are going to the FoM at the end.

 

Yea but even then, they talked about it taking weeks and months right (Or am I confused) and that was with multiple channelers! If Mat had 7500, and say perrin had 10 times that, it should take 10 times as much time (being really basic here). But they had multiple channelers making gateways, or at least linked with circles to make them. So it shouldn't be 10 times as long at that point, but a fraction of the time.

 

Oh no no, Perrin moved his entire force through gateways in a matter of hour(s).

It used to take a hell of a lot longer through normal gateways, before Flinn and Neald figured out how to link with the WO's and AS to make huge gateways.

 

Just think about Rand's forces when he engaged the Seanchan in Altara. They were moving his almost equivalent (6000) small force around quite quickly through regular gateways.

 

Oh yea, that was before linking. Ok good point. IT still seems Verin did it in a short amount of time. But I'll concede that.

[Vardar]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

[Finnssss22]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

[Vardar]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

 

Yes from the age of Legends. Nothing further explaining exactly what it was then? Just like a middle name?

[kght22]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

 

Yes from the age of Legends. Nothing further explaining exactly what it was then? Just like a middle name?

earning a third name in the age of legends reflected great deeds done for others. i dont think there is all that much about it but it seems to me that the names were bestowed not chosen by the one who earned them. for lews therin the name he earned was telamon which literaly means "the dragon". i like to think he earned it in battle against the shadow, but it might have been before the war as far as i know. but lews therin's title as far as i can tell was lord of the morning, although he once, apparently not at the time of the strike at sg, wore the ring of tamyrlin, and commanded the nine rods of dominion, and lots of people on this site think of the rods of dominion as governors in the regions of the world, and as such it would mean that at one point lews was leader of the world. it would be hard to say king because there is so little information.

 

EDIT: oh and of course lews therin also earned a fourth name: kinslayer

Edited April 20, 2012 by Testy al'Carr

[Vardar]

Has the "coveted third name" thing ever been explained?

 

You mean from the Age of Legends?

If so, the third name was earned through accomplishments.

 

Yes from the age of Legends. Nothing further explaining exactly what it was then? Just like a middle name?

earning a third name in the age of legends reflected great deeds done for others. i dont think there is all that much about it but it seems to me that the names were bestowed not chosen by the one who earned them. for lews therin the name he earned was telamon which literaly means "the dragon". i like to think he earned it in battle against the shadow, but it might have been before the war as far as i know. but lews therin's title as far as i can tell was lord of the morning, although he once, apparently not at the time of the strike at sg, wore the ring of tamyrlin, and commanded the nine rods of dominion, and lots of people on this site think of the rods of dominion as governors in the regions of the world, and as such it would mean that at one point lews was leader of the world. it would be hard to say king because there is so little information.

 

EDIT: oh and of course lews therin also earned a fourth name: kinslayer

 

He got the third name before, since Lanfear was jealous of it before he even got with his wife. Hmm, didn't know it meant dragon. So was it known he was the Dragon before the battle with the Shadow then? Did they know what the Dragon was? (Since the battle between the Dragon the the DO was eternal, blah blah blah)