Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[mb]

Before Towers of Midnight was released, a number of names were revealed; quoted name portion of the post a number of pages ago in this thread. What happened to the names?

Do you mean the people who won a cameo in the book? They're there, albeit a little differently (Brandon attempted to WoTize their names).

What are their new names and/or in which chapters can they be found?

 

In Path of Daggers, Anaiyella comments to Rand about his "particular care for women". Her knowledge of it had to have originated from one of the Forsaken.

I do not accept your premiss. Every Cairhien noble of note saw how hard it was for him to deal with Colavaere; the Maidens (and all Aiel, I take it) know of his issues; Moiraine knew of it, and nobody told her. All goes to show that it could be figured out, and it's not exactly something that one would hide, so the word might've gotten around.

Yet the Maidens/Aiel and Moiraine spent more time with Rand than Cairhien nobles. Also, Anaiyella tells in the scene that it was rumored; the Maidens/Aiel or Moiraine would not have spread such a rumor.

[yoniy0]

I'm sorry, mb, I can't find a list anywhere. A few are mentioned in this post by jenniferl.

[Superhal]

re: darren: no prob, it happens all the time. :)

[jahnfriederik]

Why is there so much fear of and revulsion for the Dragon? Not Rand al'Thor but the man prophesied to save the world .. the man who bound the Dark One and the Forsaken in a prison for three millenium? Why is the Dragon's Fang a symbol of ... whatever it is a symbol of? I never quite got this. I mean, he will break nations and all that sounds bad, but if he's saving them from the Dark One... It's like accusing the sun of causing skin cancer (best I could come up with on short notice haha).

[UncleButcher1980]

Why is there so much fear of and revulsion for the Dragon? Not Rand al'Thor but the man prophesied to save the world .. the man who bound the Dark One and the Forsaken in a prison for three millenium? Why is the Dragon's Fang a symbol of ... whatever it is a symbol of? I never quite got this. I mean, he will break nations and all that sounds bad, but if he's saving them from the Dark One... It's like accusing the sun of causing skin cancer (best I could come up with on short notice haha).

 

 

Because his recklessness when sealing the Dark One led to sadin being tainted which caused the Breaking of the World. Everyone pretty much lays the blame for all that at the Dragon's feet.

Edited July 11, 2011 by UncleButcher

[yoniy0]

He wasn't prophesied to break nations, but the world. Last time he certainly was responsible for the Breaking, and he murdered his entire family to boot. Hence, the fear and hate. But also reverence. All it took for Tear to yield was his taking Callandor.

[Superhal]

The way I took it was based on the tavern scene in Rand's past vision. The common people were blaming all AS and Aiel for what happened, but LTT, over time, became the focus.

 

However, afterwards, they had a buttload of prophecies to prepare them for the DR, which is why the modern reaction wasn't hysteria.

[jahnfriederik]

One question on TP:

 

 

How did forsaken learn to channel TP? Is it exactly like OP (five elements) and weaves are exactly the same? But that couldn't be since weaves are not the same for Saidain and Saidar. So how did Rand know what to do in tGS?

 

We know very little about it, but what we do know I can hazard some guesses:

 

1. Ishy has been using it for many years, which is why Moridin has saa.

2. In the death of Mesaana scene, we know Rand channeled Fire to break the Domination band and balefire Mesaana and Elza.

 

So yes, expertise in one transfers to the other, they both use the same elements and weaves, and it is simply an alternate source of the OP.

 

But this leads to disturbing speculation about the relationship between saidar, saidin, and the DO.

 

Not sure about this. Seem to remember that TP comes directly from the DO himself. OP probably from the Creator, then? White/Black - there is a certain symmetry. Also the Creator doesn't interfere personally in the Pattern (for whatever reason) so he wouldn't deny the Forsaken OP, whereas TP is only for those chosen by DO .. certainly sounds like it'd fit into RJ's general WoT philosophy, if you see what I mean.

 

Also, Rand learned to channel intuitively, in large part, and so did the Wisdoms of The Two Rivers. He was killing (one of the three) love(s) of his life! That's enough pressure for anyone to come up with balefire. Maybe. In any case, I don't think the weaves are the same, just as saidin/saidar are not the same (which one would TP correspond to?). The 5 elements theory sounds plausible because there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative, looking at it from an author's perspective (to whatever extent that is possible).

[Durinax]

One question on TP:

 

 

How did forsaken learn to channel TP? Is it exactly like OP (five elements) and weaves are exactly the same? But that couldn't be since weaves are not the same for Saidain and Saidar. So how did Rand know what to do in tGS?

 

We know very little about it, but what we do know I can hazard some guesses:

 

1. Ishy has been using it for many years, which is why Moridin has saa.

2. In the death of Mesaana scene, we know Rand channeled Fire to break the Domination band and balefire Mesaana and Elza.

 

So yes, expertise in one transfers to the other, they both use the same elements and weaves, and it is simply an alternate source of the OP.

 

But this leads to disturbing speculation about the relationship between saidar, saidin, and the DO.

 

Not sure about this. Seem to remember that TP comes directly from the DO himself. OP probably from the Creator, then? White/Black - there is a certain symmetry. Also the Creator doesn't interfere personally in the Pattern (for whatever reason) so he wouldn't deny the Forsaken OP, whereas TP is only for those chosen by DO .. certainly sounds like it'd fit into RJ's general WoT philosophy, if you see what I mean.

 

Also, Rand learned to channel intuitively, in large part, and so did the Wisdoms of The Two Rivers. He was killing (one of the three) love(s) of his life! That's enough pressure for anyone to come up with balefire. Maybe. In any case, I don't think the weaves are the same, just as saidin/saidar are not the same (which one would TP correspond to?). The 5 elements theory sounds plausible because there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative, looking at it from an author's perspective (to whatever extent that is possible).

wasnt it stated somewhere that the TP takes the rough shape of the OP when weaving it, so to a woman it would react like saidar, and to a man it would react like saidin

[W_A]

If you used balefire to somehow cause someone's retroactive death without the balefire touching them, can the DO transmigrate them, ie does the balefire itself prevent transmigration, or is it the retroactive death?

 

Situation: Somebody is underneath a rock that is held up by a pole, and then you balefire the pole. Afterwards, one minute ago, the rock fell and crushed them, and in the current time, they are already dead, but by crushing, not balefiring.

[herid]

 

wasnt it stated somewhere that the TP takes the rough shape of the OP when weaving it, so to a woman it would react like saidar, and to a man it would react like saidin

 

BS sort of confirmed this in interviews.

Matt: Ok. So, obviously a channeler uses the True Power. We’ve discussed this before: they weave the True Power just as they weave the One Power . . .

Brandon: They do, and you don’t have to learn, and so that should tell you that the weaves are similar if not identical to the One Power. There are certain things the True Power can do that are different and it goes about things in different ways, but you don’t have to relearn everything.

 

But I don't recall that being explicitly mentioned in such way in the books. it's implicitly implied though. Rand knew how to use TP right away for example.

Graendal suggests the same in ToM prologue

Graendal wove a ribbon of Air. Working with the True Power was similar, yet not identical, to working with the One Power. A weave of the True Power would often function in a slightly different way, or have an unanticipated side effect. And there were some weaves that could only be crafted by the True Power.

[Superhal]

If you used balefire to somehow cause someone's retroactive death without the balefire touching them, can the DO transmigrate them, ie does the balefire itself prevent transmigration, or is it the retroactive death?

 

Situation: Somebody is underneath a rock that is held up by a pole, and then you balefire the pole. Afterwards, one minute ago, the rock fell and crushed them, and in the current time, they are already dead, but by crushing, not balefiring.

 

Balefire removes the soul (thread) from the pattern, and thus transmigration is not possible.

 

Your other example is a completely different topic. Yes, that person would still die.

 

The only way balefire can prevent death is if, in your example, the pole fell, caused a death, and then was balefired.

 

edit: after some more thought, I don't think balefiring inanimate objects should have any effect whatsoever because they don't have souls, hence they do not have threads in the pattern. Going back to your situation: Person A holds a sword and stabs Person B. Person A is then balefired, thus Person B comes back to life. However, if Person A's sword is balefired instead, Person B should still be dead.

 

The main counterargument I was considering was when Moggy tried to balefire Nynaeve while Nynaeve was on a boat. The boat jumped backwards a few yards and then started sinking. If the boat jumped backwards in time because the boat was balefired, that would blow my theory. However, I think that Moggy must have balefired some of the rowers, and that caused the backwards jump.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Toy'varen

[Superhal]

One question on TP:

 

 

How did forsaken learn to channel TP? Is it exactly like OP (five elements) and weaves are exactly the same? But that couldn't be since weaves are not the same for Saidain and Saidar. So how did Rand know what to do in tGS?

 

We know very little about it, but what we do know I can hazard some guesses:

 

1. Ishy has been using it for many years, which is why Moridin has saa.

2. In the death of Mesaana scene, we know Rand channeled Fire to break the Domination band and balefire Mesaana and Elza.

 

So yes, expertise in one transfers to the other, they both use the same elements and weaves, and it is simply an alternate source of the OP.

 

But this leads to disturbing speculation about the relationship between saidar, saidin, and the DO.

 

Not sure about this. Seem to remember that TP comes directly from the DO himself. OP probably from the Creator, then? White/Black - there is a certain symmetry. Also the Creator doesn't interfere personally in the Pattern (for whatever reason) so he wouldn't deny the Forsaken OP, whereas TP is only for those chosen by DO .. certainly sounds like it'd fit into RJ's general WoT philosophy, if you see what I mean.

 

Also, Rand learned to channel intuitively, in large part, and so did the Wisdoms of The Two Rivers. He was killing (one of the three) love(s) of his life! That's enough pressure for anyone to come up with balefire. Maybe. In any case, I don't think the weaves are the same, just as saidin/saidar are not the same (which one would TP correspond to?). The 5 elements theory sounds plausible because there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative, looking at it from an author's perspective (to whatever extent that is possible).

wasnt it stated somewhere that the TP takes the rough shape of the OP when weaving it, so to a woman it would react like saidar, and to a man it would react like saidin

 

I'm not 100% convinced saidin/saidar weaves are different, everybody assumes so because it cannot be confirmed. However, there are striking similarities between damane and asha'man combat weaves. Both sexes also use weaves of Air to immobilize, lightning to strike, balefire, etc. They also talk about the same 5 elements.

[Superhal]

 

Not sure about this. Seem to remember that TP comes directly from the DO himself. OP probably from the Creator, then? White/Black - there is a certain symmetry.

 

I subscribe to the (not very popular) theory that the DO is the Creator. It makes perfect sense to me. :D

[brolie]

Apologies if this has already been asked.

 

Doing my first reread and they just reached Baerlon. Min says her viewing on "the gleeman" is a man, not him, who juggles fire and the white tower. I could make sense out of everyone else except this. What are these for Thom?

[AvroChris]

 

 

I'm not 100% convinced saidin/saidar weaves are different, everybody assumes so because it cannot be confirmed. However, there are striking similarities between damane and asha'man combat weaves. Both sexes also use weaves of Air to immobilize, lightning to strike, balefire, etc. They also talk about the same 5 elements.

 

 

At the Cleansing, saidar doesn't react how Rand expects it to - he says the weave looks different to how he would have thought it would look. Also, the way men and women travel are somewhat different - women make two places in the pattern the same, men bore a hole through the pattern to travel through. Plus with all that jazz about birds not being able to teach fish to fly, I'd say that the weaves are pretty different, even if the effects are the same. It seems likely to me me that the simpler the weave, the more similar the male and female versions, but that's just speculation.

[yoniy0]

Doing my first reread and they just reached Baerlon. Min says her viewing on "the gleeman" is a man, not him, who juggles fire and the white tower. I could make sense out of everyone else except this. What are these for Thom?

At the time I figured it was about Owyn, his nephew that the Reds Gentled. RJ later said that Min's viewings are always about the future, so I don't know. Either he's made a mistake (same deal with Lan and the baby with the sword), or there's some other explanation. Rand? His child from Moiraine? Don't know.

[Manscher]

Who says Lan and the baby is a mistake? Might very well be a vision of post TG with Malkeri being remade under the rule of Lan and Nynaeve, they would need heirs after all :P

[RyanL24]

The main counterargument I was considering was when Moggy tried to balefire Nynaeve while Nynaeve was on a boat. The boat jumped backwards a few yards and then started sinking. If the boat jumped backwards in time because the boat was balefired, that would blow my theory. However, I think that Moggy must have balefired some of the rowers, and that caused the backwards jump.

 

It does say in the book that she balefired the rowers and that's why the boat jumped back up the river...

[Superhal]

At the time I figured it was about Owyn, his nephew that the Reds Gentled. RJ later said that Min's viewings are always about the future, so I don't know. Either he's made a mistake (same deal with Lan and the baby with the sword), or there's some other explanation. Rand? His child from Moiraine? Don't know.

 

Mistake I think. When she views Birgette, Min sees "more events than one person could have in a single lifetime." I would agree with the Owyn interpretation. Or, part of Min's viewing is interpreting it. Maybe those she can't figure out could be the past.

 

I think it is one of those things that was fuzzy in the early books and clarified later.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Toy'varen

[FarShainMael]

Since all (or the majority of?) souls get reborn Turning after Turning*, why doesn't Min see these future lives in everyone she Views? Why just Birgitte? She doesn't even see Rand's future lives! Or if she does, she hasn't mentioned it..

 

 

*and if some don't, what happens to those that don't? Does the DO eat them?

Edited July 12, 2011 by FarShainMael

[Superhal]

At the Cleansing, saidar doesn't react how Rand expects it to - he says the weave looks different to how he would have thought it would look. Also, the way men and women travel are somewhat different - women make two places in the pattern the same, men bore a hole through the pattern to travel through.

 

Re: cleansing: it looked different because there were gaps he figured was saidar. Also, was it actually a weave? I thought he just funnelled saidin through Aridhol like a giant Brta filter.

 

re: traveling: Sure, weaves that do different things probably are different weaves. But, does balefire have different weaves?

[rebma55]

Since all (or the majority of?) souls get reborn Turning after Turning*, why doesn't Min see these future lives in everyone she Views? Why just Birgitte? She doesn't even see Rand's future lives! Or if she does, she hasn't mentioned it..

 

 

*and if some don't, what happens to those that don't? Does the DO eat them?

 

 

I always thought that it was possibly due to her being pulled out in between starting a new life. She's in her "in between" stage/form and so all her future lives are showing up, because as Birgitte, in this form, has all of those lives in front of her, but when she begins a new life, that life only has the one future. Something along those lines.

[Finnssss22]

Doing my first reread and they just reached Baerlon. Min says her viewing on "the gleeman" is a man, not him, who juggles fire and the white tower. I could make sense out of everyone else except this. What are these for Thom?

At the time I figured it was about Owyn, his nephew that the Reds Gentled. RJ later said that Min's viewings are always about the future, so I don't know. Either he's made a mistake (same deal with Lan and the baby with the sword), or there's some other explanation. Rand? His child from Moiraine? Don't know.

 

 

If Min's viewings are always about the future then it also makes her viewing of a Red Eagle for Mat a little wonky. Maybe it was supposed to be a Red Hand?

Hell, Perrin has had more by far to do with Manetheren and the Red Eagle than Mat has so far or very likely going to.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Finnssss

[Hybrid]

Doing my first reread and they just reached Baerlon. Min says her viewing on "the gleeman" is a man, not him, who juggles fire and the white tower. I could make sense out of everyone else except this. What are these for Thom?

At the time I figured it was about Owyn, his nephew that the Reds Gentled. RJ later said that Min's viewings are always about the future, so I don't know. Either he's made a mistake (same deal with Lan and the baby with the sword), or there's some other explanation. Rand? His child from Moiraine? Don't know.

 

 

If Min's viewings are always about the future then it also makes her viewing of a Red Eagle for Mat a little wonky. Maybe it was supposed to be a Red Hand?

Hell, Perrin has had more by far to do with Manetheren and the Red Eagle than Mat has so far or very likely going to.

 

I believe that was before Mat had his Manetheren memory in TDR. If it was also before he shouted the Manetheren battle cry, then that's probably what it refers to -- the Old Blood manifesting itself strongly in him.