Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Nice questions.

Several interesting scenarios need to be considered and I can't find any textual answers.

1) TAR exists in the steddings but since they are an alternate reality, TAR there may be shielded off from TAR in WoTland and you can't travel via TAR from one to the other space. This may be true for Finnland/ Blight as well.

Further, it's unclear whether all the steddings connect to each other in TAR (if it exists) and if so, what about Ways? I don't think there's clarity about whether the Ways are accessible in TAR and they do connect steddings, more or less.

Backing this hypothesis of the existence of TAR in steddings, wolves and wolfbrothers don't have bad vibes in steddings - they don't seem to feel cutoff and uncomfortable as they might, if TAR didn't exist there.

The Dreamspike clearly lets people into TAR on either side of the barrier. But they find it difficult / near impossible to cross the barrier in TAR. Perhaps the steddings have similar effects but stronger - it's impossible to crossover in TAR from a stedding to normal WoTland.

 

2) Alternatively TAR doesn't exist in the steddings. (Ditto Finnland). Did Perrin enter the wolfdream in EOTW when he was in the stedding? I can't remember because that would offer some hints.

[Val Mickey]

In EotW they never stayed in the stedding, as I recall. Wait, do you mean when he was taken by the Whitecloaks? I believe Perrin was unconscious at the time.

 

IIRC Perrin goes into the Wolf Dream only from TDR onwards.

 

And in ToM he once enters the Dream near ToG, and then pretty much every practise session with Hopper, I assume. This was after the dreamspike was in place.

 

Also the Finnland can be entered via TAR, according to Birgitte, at least.

[Shalon Casbin]

Heroes of the Horn aren't viable references when it comes to ability in TAR because once there, they are no longer spun in the pattern and have all of their memories. Because of this, they remember everything, including every time they wait to be spun back into the Pattern, wandering TAR. Their mastery there would out-strip anyone else I imagine, esp considering Birgitte tells them when she first appears in TAR that the heroes are to hide within TAR and reveal themselves to no one. Just by that exposed rule alone, it hints that heroes have abilities in TAR that outmatch all others. They would have to be more knowledgeable/faster than anyone else there in order to be able to hide from them.

 

That is the conclusion I draw, if I am wrong and it is cited somewhere, do share :)

Edited March 20, 2011 by Amore

[Sharaman]

In EotW they never stayed in the stedding, as I recall. Wait, do you mean when he was taken by the Whitecloaks? I believe Perrin was unconscious at the time.

 

IIRC Perrin goes into the Wolf Dream only from TDR onwards.

 

And in ToM he once enters the Dream near ToG, and then pretty much every practise session with Hopper, I assume. This was after the dreamspike was in place.

 

Also the Finnland can be entered via TAR, according to Birgitte, at least.

I can't remember the stedding sequences in EoTW and I don't have the book.

About Finnland - Brigitte says the ToG can be entered from TAR - the ToG is not Finnland proper, it is itself a portal to the Finn realms.

We have explicit quotes from RJ to the effect that Finnland cannot be entered from TAR.

[White_star]

In EotW they never stayed in the stedding, as I recall. Wait, do you mean when he was taken by the Whitecloaks? I believe Perrin was unconscious at the time.

 

IIRC Perrin goes into the Wolf Dream only from TDR onwards.

 

And in ToM he once enters the Dream near ToG, and then pretty much every practise session with Hopper, I assume. This was after the dreamspike was in place.

 

Also the Finnland can be entered via TAR, according to Birgitte, at least.

I can't remember the stedding sequences in EoTW and I don't have the book.

...

Elyas led Perrin, and Egwene to an abandoned stedding to escape the ravens. It was also the only source of fresh water for miles which made it a popular camp spot.

[Puny]

I have a question.

 

When Elayne and Nynaeve are in Mardecin, they visit a nice lady named Ronde Macura. After they left her Macura sends a bird to TV and then another one west, maybe to Suroth. The pigeondude named Avi sends another pigeon "yet in another direction"

 

Do we have any clue whatsoever where that is. I suppose that it says in the letter to TV that they captured them and that Elaida should be pleased and so forth. And the letter going west, to Suroth or maybe she thought the Black Ajah were still there.

The third mystery pigeon... do we know where that one went?

[Byzantine279]

I believe one went to the white tower, one to ???, and the third to the Seanchan. (remember, it wasn't until after what Elaida did to her that she went to the Seanchan).

[Luckers]

I have a question.

 

When Elayne and Nynaeve are in Mardecin, they visit a nice lady named Ronde Macura. After they left her Macura sends a bird to TV and then another one west, maybe to Suroth. The pigeondude named Avi sends another pigeon "yet in another direction"

 

Do we have any clue whatsoever where that is. I suppose that it says in the letter to TV that they captured them and that Elaida should be pleased and so forth. And the letter going west, to Suroth or maybe she thought the Black Ajah were still there.

The third mystery pigeon... do we know where that one went?

 

We don't know. The only other institutions that might be interested in that knowledge and had active groups of eyes and ears would be the Whitecloaks and possibly the Shadow. Either way it makes a strange mixture--Aes Sedai, Seanchan, Whitecloaks and the Shadow as our list of potential contacts.

[yoniy0]

Do we have any clue whatsoever where that is

We don't know.

The list goes longer than that. Macura was a spy for the Yellow. It might be that another Ajah was interested in what she unearthed. Or the WC, as you say. We can even speculate that some noble house was interested in collecting information, though that seems stretched (unless that house had reason to meddle in the Yellows' affairs, such as a common field of interest - like whoever it was that hired that man who nearly killed Moiraine in NS).

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

I have a interesting question,

 

Is Nynaeve and Lan's Marriage Legit?

 

Because i just finished new Spring and doesn't Lan's 'first' have to give that lock of hair to the one he's to marry, which is impossible since it no longer exists?

 

Not important in any respect but interesting. also what ever happened to her?

[francy]

I have a interesting question,

 

Is Nynaeve and Lan's Marriage Legit?

 

Because i just finished new Spring and doesn't Lan's 'first' have to give that lock of hair to the one he's to marry, which is impossible since it no longer exists?

 

Not important in any respect but interesting. also what ever happened to her?

 

Hmm, good question. To the Seafolk it'll certainly be legit, and The Two Rivers people would accept it. But LAN is royalty, so if he isn't married following Borderland custom & tradition, then maybe it could be questioned...

 

Nyneave would throttle them if they did tho!

 

LOL

 

It's been so long since I read New Spring, so I can't tell you what happened to "her", I don't remember... :-)

[Luckers]

Do we have any clue whatsoever where that is

We don't know.

The list goes longer than that. Macura was a spy for the Yellow. It might be that another Ajah was interested in what she unearthed. Or the WC, as you say. We can even speculate that some noble house was interested in collecting information, though that seems stretched (unless that house had reason to meddle in the Yellows' affairs, such as a common field of interest - like whoever it was that hired that man who nearly killed Moiraine in NS).

 

 

If it were another Ajah the pigeon wouldn't go in a different direction to the others.

 

I think the Whitecloaks are definately the strongest contender--Balwer is wily, if his agents had uncovered an Aes Sedai spy then I've no doubt he would set someone to watch her and find out everything she sent to the Tower rather than simply have her killed or whatever.

[Sharaman]

Unrelated question.

Moggy is a Dreamwalker like Egwene. She has no need to use ter'angreal or to enter TAR in the flesh. Like Egwene when she's held captive in the WT, Moggy could communicate with whoever she chose to, and even to use OP in TAR, while being held in Salidar.

Even though the Supergirls know that, how could they cut her off? Did they even try? IIRC, there are no references to this.

Also, Moridin is a dreamwalker and so is Cyndane. Halima is a weak one but close enough physically to track her. Even if Moggy is too ashamed or fearful to contact them, why wouldn't they find Moggy's dreams and debrief her, forcibly if required, before she's rescued?

It makes the whole prisoner sequence in Salidar a little more difficult to believe.

[Luckers]

Unrelated question.

Moggy is a Dreamwalker like Egwene. She has no need to use ter'angreal or to enter TAR in the flesh. Like Egwene when she's held captive in the WT, Moggy could communicate with whoever she chose to, and even to use OP in TAR, while being held in Salidar.

Even though the Supergirls know that, how could they cut her off? Did they even try? IIRC, there are no references to this.

Also, Moridin is a dreamwalker and so is Cyndane. Halima is a weak one but close enough physically to track her. Even if Moggy is too ashamed or fearful to contact them, why wouldn't they find Moggy's dreams and debrief her, forcibly if required, before she's rescued?

It makes the whole prisoner sequence in Salidar a little more difficult to believe.

 

I considered this, originally, just after tGS. I offered the unlikely scenario that Egwene could pull the captured Aes Sedai into the dream and sever them--severed they would be free of the a'dam, and the torture it brings. They would also no long risk the revelation of gateways, and they may well in time be healed.

 

And then a simple problem occured to me--what if the a'dam blocks acces to the dreams of its victims. Once this occured to me, I recalled exactly the situation you describe--Moghedien successful long term imprisonment under the a'dam despite her ability as a dreamwalker.

 

And that's what I offer back to you. Dunno if it helps.

[yoniy0]

I think the Whitecloaks are definately the strongest contender--Balwer is wily, if his agents had uncovered an Aes Sedai spy then I've no doubt he would set someone to watch her and find out everything she sent to the Tower rather than simply have her killed or whatever.

And I agree.

[Thorgan]

At the very end of LoC there is a very short scene with Demandred at shayo ghul talking to the DO.

All he sais is "Have I not done well?"

 

What did he do oO? At that point the mission for the chosen was to cause as much chaos as possible, isn't it?

What did he do?

[Barid Bel Medar]

At the very end of LoC there is a very short scene with Demandred at shayo ghul talking to the DO.

All he sais is "Have I not done well?"

 

What did he do oO? At that point the mission for the chosen was to cause as much chaos as possible, isn't it?

What did he do?

 

No-one actually knows.

 

There are many theories however.

 

YOu are correct in saying that the mission was to cause as much chaos as possible, but as you know, that could be many things.

 

Most popular theories =

 

Black Tower and Asha'man, specifically in reference to the utter destruction they caused at Dumai's wells, and the fact that their leader (taim) is under the Shadow's control.

 

Use of Balefire to destablize the pattern. (Re: the DO saying "WOULD YOU USE THE BALEFIRE etcc.)(Although I am not sure if this theory has been officially debunked, there seems to be some confusion)

 

Messed with things in Caemlyn/ Andor (if I recall correctly, Demandred was in Caemlyn in TAR watching Elayne, contemplating using her/ possibly andor)

 

Reference to his possible works in Murandy as a suspect of being King of Murandy.

 

Colaboration with Messana to kidnapp Rand (again, IIRC, there has been some speculation -from chracters in the book- that Demandred could possibly have been in on the plot with Messana)

 

Initiating discord within the Bodrerlands (there was a rebellion, then the contreversial decision to go after Rand a bit later) although events in TOM could ruel the possibility out.

 

Killing various people. Using Taim's body to ressurect Ishmael. (Not a popular one, but i thought id put it in for Drekka :)- ) as per the DO saying "I WILL SAY WHO LIVES AND DIES" or somesuch.

 

And basically any other major event that hasnt been explained really.

 

Its anyones guess.

[yoniy0]

We must not forget that "Events to the south [of Arad Doman?] had Demandred's mark all over them", according to Sammael in LoC6.

[Barid Bel Medar]

We must not forget that "Events to the south [of Arad Doman?] had Demandred's mark all over them", according to Sammael in LoC6.

 

Indeed. I forget that.

 

 

Something that always bothered me about that and the "Demandred likes using Proxies" was that everyone seemed to take it for plain fact while other things if it is not stated 5 times with 5 quotes to back it up, people still dont believe it.

 

Sammael is a very suspect voice in regards to Demandred. from the BWB they never liked each other, and the Forsaken constantly lie and mislead eachother.

 

Now, saying that, I believe that in this case Sammael was telling the truth, and the comments are in fact correct, but it just bothered me that the statement was never really challenged and the whole proxy thing/ south is taken very nearly as fact.

 

Just sayin haha..

[Terez]

I think that might be a bit of a false impression, since most of us had the same reasoning as you. We don't really take it for granted; we just find it likely to be true.

[Thorgan]

Alright, thanks.

[Sharaman]

Unrelated question.

Moggy is a Dreamwalker like Egwene. She has no need to use ter'angreal or to enter TAR in the flesh. Like Egwene when she's held captive in the WT, Moggy could communicate with whoever she chose to, and even to use OP in TAR, while being held in Salidar.

Even though the Supergirls know that, how could they cut her off? Did they even try? IIRC, there are no references to this.

Also, Moridin is a dreamwalker and so is Cyndane. Halima is a weak one but close enough physically to track her. Even if Moggy is too ashamed or fearful to contact them, why wouldn't they find Moggy's dreams and debrief her, forcibly if required, before she's rescued?

It makes the whole prisoner sequence in Salidar a little more difficult to believe.

 

I considered this, originally, just after tGS. I offered the unlikely scenario that Egwene could pull the captured Aes Sedai into the dream and sever them--severed they would be free of the a'dam, and the torture it brings. They would also no long risk the revelation of gateways, and they may well in time be healed.

 

And then a simple problem occured to me--what if the a'dam blocks acces to the dreams of its victims. Once this occured to me, I recalled exactly the situation you describe--Moghedien successful long term imprisonment under the a'dam despite her ability as a dreamwalker.

 

And that's what I offer back to you. Dunno if it helps.

 

May be worth asking Brandon? The a'dam is definitely a possibility and it would work - except that there are too many dreamwalkers who can't channel, hence immune to the a'dam. So it would have to be something convoluted like a channeler-dreamwalker can be blocked from TAR by using an a'dam while a non-channeler dreamwalker cannot!

[GB]

i am rereading the Great Hunt and in the chapter "Seanchan" that Bayle Domon notices a man in a cage from a tower, what is the man meant to be?

[Finnssss22]

i am rereading the Great Hunt and in the chapter "Seanchan" that Bayle Domon notices a man in a cage from a tower, what is the man meant to be?

 

 

Pretty sure those were "The Watchers Over the Waves" that were being punished for watching for the wrong things.

The Seanchan treat nobles/The Blood who break the law a bit differently than the common folk, most of the time they don't even lay a finger on them. Instead they put them in sacks or cages and hang them outside the Tower of Ravens to die.

 

Pay attention to Fain's PoV in chapter 34, there is more mention of this.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Finnssss

[GB]

thanks i was a bit confused about it.