Tarmon Gai'don. When Will It Begin? How Will It Be Launched? (Full Spoilers)

[bramaen]

I believe it will happen in about two months or so. Tarmon Gai'don will essentially be another Trolloc Wars yet that is not as important as what Rand must do. I think it will basically be like the "Strike at Shayol Ghul." However Rand does not know how to seal the prison and his dream of "slaying the Dark One" is impossible to be achieved as Moridin implied.

 

As for the Shadowspawn hordes, I believe Tarwin's Gap, the Shadow Lance and the various Waygates will be launching points. I think in the first two locations, both Lan and Ituralde's forces will blunt the first prongs of the Shadows' opening moves, but the forces the have at their disposal are not enough.

 

One thing I recall is that the Waygates were not destroyed. The Ogier only said they would watch it, which still wouldn't prevent thousands of Trollocs from invading as Mashadar has been acting strangely.

 

I'm not sure the Ways are usable.  I don't think they've been used since Rand cleansed the male half of the source.  If the corruption was caused by the taint on the male half of the true source, it's possible they are clean (or are slowly becoming cleaner) now that the taint is gone, it's also possible that they were destroyed when Saidin was cleansed.

 

On the other hand, could the Ways still be tainted?  They are in another realm, so to speak, so could the dark one's taint still be present?

[Al Jenn Mael]

It will end at the end of the year 1000 NE which is almost over.

 

The Ways are being untaintified, I could look up the quote from the book if you like. It says the taint will be removed but it doesn't say if the ways will rebuild themselves or just be 'clean'.

 

Also it has been Loails mission to seal all the waygates, but we'll see how well that worked out.

[coteaz]

I could imagine the dark one sending waves of warded draghkar to assassinate as many light channelers as possible, followed by warded darkhounds to kill off leaders, then armies of trollocs and dreadlords (which could also be warded)

[Muad Cheade]

I'm not sure the Ways are usable.  I don't think they've been used since Rand cleansed the male half of the source.

One of the Forsaken used them to send Trollocs to attack Rand at the manor in Tear (KoD). Ever since Fain "interacted" with Machin Shin, it has been acting irregularly.

 

If the corruption was caused by the taint on the male half of the true source, it's possible they are clean (or are slowly becoming cleaner) now that the taint is gone, it's also possible that they were destroyed when Saidin was cleansed.

That is plausible but also remember what RJ said about a person who already was mad from the taint. He said that the cleansing of saidin would not remove the madness, so it is likely that the Ways are still tainted and deadly.

 

I could imagine the dark one sending waves of warded draghkar to assassinate as many light channelers as possible, followed by warded darkhounds to kill off leaders, then armies of trollocs and dreadlords (which could also be warded)

I suppose that is possible but the One Power seems to be failing (especially in the are or wards) and I can't see the one person who is allowed to touch the True Power (Moridin) doing that "menial" work.

[ShenAnCalhar]

Someone needs to balefire the crap out of Machin Shin.  Seems like it should work...

[jemron]

Someone needs to balefire the crap out of Machin Shin.  Seems like it should work...

 

Actually, that's an interesting thing.  Can Machin Shin be balefired?  Is it a thread in the Pattern that can be burned away?  Or is it something different?

[TheAngryDruid]

When: I think it's already begun, just not the military part.

 

I concur with Verin, when she told Egwene that Tarmon Gai'don may not be fought the way Rand thinks (a big military fight, or a duel with the DO).

 

The Semirhage move and Rand channeling the TP were the opening salvo, and the DO almost won in Veins of Gold.

 

The forces of the Light must communicate and cooperate. Rand and his minions (Mat's group, Perrin's group, the Aiel, the Asha'man, Berelain (Cairhein & Mayene), Dobraine, Darlin (Tear), whomever is running Illian) must get together with each other, and Egwene, Tuon, and the Borderlanders.

 

Truth must be spoken, asses must be taken out of heads.

 

Though some characters made big strides in this regard (Rand, Egwene, Nynaeve, Mat, Perrin, Gawyn, and even Casuane made some small strides, but they all have a way to go.

 

And Tuon is still almost totally in the dark, but did make one small breakthrough (golly, might Mat be right about other stuff?).

 

[GB]

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

from Nicola in book 6

 

hey was reading book 6 again and was thinking abt that foretelling.

 

the lion sword = elayne?

the dedicated spear= avi?

she who sees beyond= min?

 

great battle is obviously the last battle, divided by the return means the seanchan empire?

 

and guardians= ashaman

servants= aes sedai

 

whats u guys think

?

[dholm]

The Bore has been growing this whole time?  Is that backed up by the series or quotes from RJ/BS, or did you just state your opinion like fact?  The DO's influence is growing as the Seals weaken, but I don't remember reading anywhere that the Bore is actually growing and that the DO will somehow be closer to breaking free than he was right before the Bore was sealed.  I assume that he will be "just as free" as he was before the sealing happened.

 

Jemron, from the Strike at Shayol Ghul:

 

Detractors pointed out that the Bore had enlarged since it was first drilled, and behind the barricade erected by the sa'angreal it would continue to grow, so that eventually the Dark One might free himself within the barrier. The barrier might well contain the Dark One when all he could do was reach through the relatively small Bore, but could it hold back the Dark One let loose?

 

This statement seems to indicate that the DO is capable of enlarging the Bore further on his own once the Seals are gone.  Whether he's been enlarging the Bore while the Seals are still in place is an open question that I do not believe we can answer yet.

 

 

The "barricade" they are talking about is the one the female Aes Sedai wanted to erect using the Choeden Kal. Since that plan was never put into motion, it doesn't apply.

 

The Bore will grow again once all the Seals are broken, and perhaps it even has grown already as some of the Seals have been broken, but I do not believe it could grow while the Seals were placed.

[Impressive Bosom]

So how much time do you reckon is left? Do you think it will be one big invasion, or a multi-pronged attack? And where do you think the attacks will come from? Tarwin's Gap only? Through the Shadow's Lance? If so will Inturalde still be around to meet it in Saldaea? How will the Ways be involved? Is it possible the Light might launch the first blows?

 

As far as I'm concerned, Tarmon Gaidon has begun. The opening salvo was fired in tGS, the culmination of books worth of work. Morridin makes it clear that Rand is not to be killed, but he is to suffer frustration and heartache all with the intention that he be driven to do exactly what he almost did at the end of the book - break the Wheel of Time himself and unravel creation, breaking the cycle of life and death and rebirth exactly as the DO has professed he was going to do. Rand was to be the DO's instrument, to serve him even if he was unaware of it at the time... I think this is hinted at when Verin tells Egwene that the Last battle is not being fought the way Rand thinks it will be.

 

So the opening engagement has taken place and was won by the Light there on Dragonmount... the DO might be taken back momentarily by the defeat, but should soon marshall his forces and begin a different sort of offensive.

[Impressive Bosom]

I'm not sure the Ways are usable.  I don't think they've been used since Rand cleansed the male half of the source.  If the corruption was caused by the taint on the male half of the true source, it's possible they are clean (or are slowly becoming cleaner) now that the taint is gone, it's also possible that they were destroyed when Saidin was cleansed.

 

On the other hand, could the Ways still be tainted?  They are in another realm, so to speak, so could the dark one's taint still be present?

 

I think the general theory is that whatever the taint did when it was there is still there, but nothing will get worse (at least, the taint won't make anything worse since its gone). Male channelers who were going insane are still just as insane as they were the moment before Saidin was cleansed... I have to assume the Ways are the same way.

[Impressive Bosom]

Truth must be spoken, asses must be taken out of heads.

 

Wait - strike that last part. Reverse it.

 

There we go.  :-*

[wingedearth]

How to handle the Last Battle when there are two fronts: the DO's hordes and the Seanchan:

 

If Rand can link with thirteen Aes Sedai and maybe add more men and circles of thirteen, maybe they could create a giant gateway and forcibly push large Seanchan armies through it to send them into the Blasted Lands.  Let the Seanchan and Shadowspawn kill each other off.

 

Also, since the One Power could be used to drive the taint from Saidin, maybe the One Power could be used to drive the Blight from Malkier?

[jemron]

Also, since the One Power could be used to drive the taint from Saidin, maybe the One Power could be used to drive the Blight from Malkier?

 

Actually, I disagree with your statement here.  The One Power couldn't be used to "drive the taint from Saidin."  It was the evil of Shadar Logoth that drove the taint from Saidin.  The One Power was just used to "guide" or create a "conduit" that forced the evil of SL and the taint to destroy each other.  Now that the evil of SL is gone (besides what remains in Fain and the dagger) I don't think that the blight can be destroyed by the same means.  I think the only way to get rid of the Blight is to get rid of the Dark One's influence on the world by properly resealing him for good or by killing/destroying him for good.

[lsm]

what about elayne's part in the last battle? from nicola's foretelling it seems to imply she will have some sort of part

 

so is she going to show up pregnant and get all emotional, or are rands kid going to be born by then? by the end of TGS (assuming the timeline is correct) she is only about 4 months pregnant.

[Kalyahna]

what about elayne's part in the last battle? from nicola's foretelling it seems to imply she will have some sort of part

 

so is she going to show up pregnant and get all emotional, or are rands kid going to be born by then? by the end of TGS (assuming the timeline is correct) she is only about 4 months pregnant.

 

She's spent a lot of time talking about how brave the various queens of Andor are supposed to be. I suspect she'll lead the Andoran troops in whatever they do, be it at the Blight or closer to home. She does have Birgitte and some reliable people to keep her safe.

[Lilbaz]

Have a theory about the final battle. Just a possibility but i thought it might be interesting.

 

We suspect this is earth due to previous quotes from the book. We also know (can link if we use a bit of imagination) that a large part of the book is based on the Arthurian legend:

Rand AlThor = Arthur

Moiraine = Merlin

Lan = Lancelot

Gawyn = Gawayn

Gallad = Gallahad

Moridin = Mordred

Lanfear = Mogan Lefey

Callandor = Excaliber

Bowl of winds = Holy Grail

Arthur was the first Dragon (the Pendragon).

So this is my take, the final battle, Rand will be losing until Lan makes a last minute appearance with his army.

Moiraine will kill Lanfear (Lefay trapped Merlin only for him to come back stronger and defeat her).

Rand will kill Moridin but recieve a fatal wound. Rand will then ask Logain to throw Callandor into the bore (I think that Logain might even be the one to carry it).

Logain will then get to the bore but be indecisive, as with Callandor he could rule the world. Up shows Fain and Logain stabs him with Callandor and both fall into the bore (not Logain). 3 become 1 and seal it. Just as Rand used the power of Shadar Lagoth to clense sadin. Also completing his Gollam moment.

Rand dies and Logain takes credit for defeating the dark one.

Rand actually dies and is taken to Tar Valon (Avalon). But doesn't ressurect as he will only live again the next time he is needed.

 

[Sharaman]

You forgot Nynaeve as Nynaeve. She will presumably kill or trap Moiraine forever in a crystal cave (inside a Malazan Warren that exists inside Callandor) along with Thom.

Sure, RJ drew from Arthurian legend, he also drew from Norse and Arab mythos. Don't try to push the parallel too hard.

 

[Lilbaz]

I know - Mat is Odin etc... hope it isn't like this as I want to be surprised. Just my theory and am sure that Jordan?Sanderson will have a lot of different ideas to me.

 

[pacificflows]

The Dark One turns out to be Rand's father.

[Lilbaz]

If you go with my theory Morridin is Rands son  :P

[EsseQuamVideri7]

I think that Rand's body will not survive the Last Battle but that's okay because Ishamael\Moridin will be inhabiting it at the time. I hope the girls don't mind dark hair.

[singogreatest360]

The 5th of Nesan is Oct 31 Holloween. that should give the characters enough time to prepare And what a perfect day to start this thing up!

[Blackhoof]

I agree with the angry druid. Everyone needs to meet together and the following discussions will take place.

 

-Egwene will yell at Rand for the asha'man bonding AS thing and try to convince him that he needs to be guided (because he has utterly broken the world and not made any good decisions without any AS guidance  :) )

-Rand will say that Egwene is full of crap and that while he will welcome the advice and of an experienced, knowledgable Aes Sedai (ie: not Egwene) And will accept the AS as allies. Not "guiders"

-Tuon needs a major wake-up call and needs to stop the leashoing, and only leash severe channeling criminals and darkfriend channelers. (how they'll do it, i have NO idea  ::) )

-everyone needs to stop seeing rand as a problem to be solved or an unruly child to be guided onto the correct path and as a man to be helped

-etc, etc, more heads pulled out of asses, etc.

[Sentinel78]

everyone needs to stop seeing rand as a problem to be solved or an unruly child to be guided onto the correct path and as a man to be helped

 

They need to start seeing him as a leader, and he needs to start acting like one.