Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[morkhon]

Well, Let the Lord of Chaos rule was an order from Shai'tan, passed to Demandred, then subsequently to Mesaana, Semirhage and Graendal, and they have said it in the presence of others.True, both Demandred and Taim are in the same chain, but doesn't imply the one heard it from the other direct.

Well, before I go digging my books out of storage, there is an actual passage of Dem using that phrase 'let the Lord of Chaos rule' to other Forsaken?

[The Desert Pea]

The Trollock attack might have been Taim.

 

Two birds with one stone - if it worked.

 

Where's any evidence for that?  When was Taim given a Chosen Mark that would allow him to command Myrrdraal?  When and how did he learn where Rand was?

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,47339.msg1258162.html#msg1258162

[analyticalkeys]

•  Someone asked for clarification about whether we had seen Mesanna and Demandred's alter-egos on screen. Sanderson said that we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on screen as of KoD, but that we had not seen Demandred's alter-ego on screen as of KoD. Sanderson would not elaborate on whether Demandred's alter-ego had been seen in TGS-- Sanderson didn't want to narrow down the suspects for us if Demandred really had appeared in TGS.

 

Okay, so no Demandred in KoD either.. I really just don't think this guy has an alter-ego. I think he's just being himself.

[Lord_of_the_Morning]

Roedran.

 

p.s. dear dragonmount...  please get rid of the Sarah Palin adds.

 

 

[FanoLan]

Roedran.

 

p.s. dear dragonmount...  please get rid of the Sarah Palin adds.

 

 

 

Could not agree more.

[Seafolk Sedai]

Didn't RJ tell someone that Shaara would remain offscreen? I seem to remember that. If so it would be horrible for the series for Demandred to be there, plus I just dont see how he can say his rule is secure if there is chaos all around. I'll be very disappointed with the plotting in the series if Demandred winds up in Shaara. As for the Isle of Madmen, it sounds like one of those places authors create on their world maps that we never get to see, and that never play any role in the series, but there was a speck of land there and it needed a name.

 

 

Here's what exactly was said, courtsey of Theoryland:

 

East of the Sun Con, Stockholm, Sweden June 1995 - Karl-Johan Norén reporting

 

 

There are no plans to visit Seanchan in any greater extent than it already has been visited, and there are not going to be any visits to Shara either.

 

And then later...

 

Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 1997

 

Kate from State College PA: In a previous statement I believe you had basically said that the action of the series would take place in the lands known to Rand and his friends, i.e., not Shara or Seanchan and yet the new book has a lot of stuff about those lands--have you changed your mind? Is action in either of these two lands a possibility now?

 

RJ: No. Except for the possible occasional divergence, like for Rand's excursions to Seanchan when he chased after Aviendha. I was willing to put as much as I did into the guide because I will not be using those things in the books in the same way that I used Kandor or Saldaea.

 

So it's possible we'll see Shara, but not to any great extent. A chapter, at most,I'd think. That of course, doesn't rule out Sharans coming to Randland. There have been too many hints in each book to say that Shara will play no part at all.

[cleantoe]

I wonder, would it be possible for Demandred to be in control of the Sea Folk? I know he likes to be the general and lead his armies, but it's the one place that no one has really talked about or knows much about.

 

In TGS, Rand is angry that the Sea Folk are taking too long in arriving with supplies, and Harine says it's cause they have to avoid the Seanchan. Could it also mean that Demandred is putting together a force that when it lands in the guise of getting supplies, they'll attack or something?

 

I think it's doubtful he's with them, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways and see where the discussion goes.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The Trollock attack might have been Taim.

 

Two birds with one stone - if it worked.

 

Where's any evidence for that?  When was Taim given a Chosen Mark that would allow him to command Myrrdraal?  When and how did he learn where Rand was?

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,47339.msg1258162.html#msg1258162

 

That's not evidence.  It's just a theory.  Taim does a number of things that make him seem suspicious on lots of levels, but we've seen nothing in the books that lets us do anything but speculate about what he's really up to.

 

I repeat my questions:  When was he given a Chosen Mark?  When and how did he learn where Rand was?

 

Without a solid answer to those questions, we have to ascribe that Trolloc attack to one of the Forsaken that we do know about.  Osan'gar fits best for initiating the plan.  Demandred fits best for finalizing the attack.

 

[Seafolk Sedai]

I wonder, would it be possible for Demandred to be in control of the Sea Folk? I know he likes to be the general and lead his armies, but it's the one place that no one has really talked about or knows much about.

 

In TGS, Rand is angry that the Sea Folk are taking too long in arriving with supplies, and Harine says it's cause they have to avoid the Seanchan. Could it also mean that Demandred is putting together a force that when it lands in the guise of getting supplies, they'll attack or something?

 

I think it's doubtful he's with them, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways and see where the discussion goes.

 

No. Absolutely not.

 

 

 

This isn't based on personal bias at all. *hides screen name*

[cleantoe]

I wonder, would it be possible for Demandred to be in control of the Sea Folk? I know he likes to be the general and lead his armies, but it's the one place that no one has really talked about or knows much about.

 

In TGS, Rand is angry that the Sea Folk are taking too long in arriving with supplies, and Harine says it's cause they have to avoid the Seanchan. Could it also mean that Demandred is putting together a force that when it lands in the guise of getting supplies, they'll attack or something?

 

I think it's doubtful he's with them, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways and see where the discussion goes.

 

No. Absolutely not.

 

 

 

This isn't based on personal bias at all. *hides screen name*

 

Nice try, Demanfolk Sedai!

[analyticalkeys]

The Sea Folk have all the women in very strong roles though, I fail to see what Demandred could accomplish with them.

[cleantoe]

The Sea Folk have all the women in very strong roles though, I fail to see what Demandred could accomplish with them.

 

True, but Morgase was also a female in a strong role in a position of power, and she was easily manipulated by Rahvin. Also, we don't know much about the top leadership structure of the Sea Folk.

 

Graendal can't figure out what he's up to and she probably would know if he was in the Borderlands. One of the few places that Graendal presumably has very little to no spies is, I'd venture to guess, among the Seafolk.

[analyticalkeys]

The Sea Folk have all the women in very strong roles though, I fail to see what Demandred could accomplish with them.

 

True, but Morgase was also a female in a strong role in a position of power, and she was easily manipulated by Rahvin. Also, we don't know much about the top leadership structure of the Sea Folk.

 

Graendal can't figure out what he's up to and she probably would know if he was in the Borderlands. One of the few places that Graendal presumably has very little to no spies is, I'd venture to guess, among the Seafolk.

 

Yes, but Morgase was in a position where a man could get to her. The only important men in the Sea Folk structure are the merchant husbands, and they would have no say over what the women choose to do.

[Eleint]

That isn't the only important position.  Master of Blades is an important position, too.  When the 'blades are bare', even the Mistress of Ships must bow to the Master of Blades.

 

Seafolk society is just highly hierarchical.

[Mr Ares]

The Trollock attack might have been Taim.

 

Two birds with one stone - if it worked.

Where's any evidence for that?  When was Taim given a Chosen Mark that would allow him to command Myrrdraal?  When and how did he learn where Rand was?

Where's the evidence for Osan'gar, who died before they got to Algarin's manor, or Demandred? Doesn't exist. Taim's as good as any - at least he's blunt enough to try such a thing.

 

Well, Let the Lord of Chaos rule was an order from Shai'tan, passed to Demandred, then subsequently to Mesaana, Semirhage and Graendal, and they have said it in the presence of others.True, both Demandred and Taim are in the same chain, but doesn't imply the one heard it from the other direct.

Well, before I go digging my books out of storage, there is an actual passage of Dem using that phrase 'let the Lord of Chaos rule' to other Forsaken?

Yes. LoC Prologue. First time we hear it.

[1eejit]

I don't consider the Sea Folk to be a likely target of infiltration. They're as socially insular than the Aiel, with a strict hierarchy which doesn't seem to facilitate a rapid rise to power for an unknown.

[cleantoe]

I don't consider the Sea Folk to be a likely target of infiltration. They're as socially insular than the Aiel, with a strict hierarchy which doesn't seem to facilitate a rapid rise to power for an unknown.

 

Compulsion can let him do whatever he wants and there's no one there to detect the use of saidin.

 

Also, how easy was it for Semi to just up and become Anath, who held a high blood position or whatever. You don't get to *that* very quickly either.

[Canis Rufus]

Personally I think Demandred is over in Shara.  Thinking of the Ayyad.

 

"These are both male and female channelers that live in secluded villages, cut off from the rest of the kingdom. If anyone who is not Ayyad comes into these villages they are killed. Permission must be granted for the Ayyad to leave these places, although anyone seeing one outside the village would just assume one had permission anyway. They tatoo their faces to allow identification, anyone bearing these tatoos are confined to Ayyad villages.

 

Male Ayyad are not allowed to learn to read or write, or do anything at all really. They can feed and dress themselves and that is about it. They are used to breed more female Ayyad, and as such their bloodlines are traced like horse breeding stock. Males are communally raised, called simply "the male", instead of "he". When they are sixteen they are taken from the village and are hooded and cloaked, and are matched with women who desire children. Sometimes several. When he is twenty-one, or shows signs of channeling, he is taken from the village as if again to go breed and is instead killed and cremated."

 

Considering Rand’s growing army of power users as a General you would want an army to combat that one that is contained and easily controlled and protected.  This would give you both and allow you to not have to worry about entering into battle as you are off the main battle field.     

 

[1eejit]

Compulsion can let him do whatever he wants and there's no one there to detect the use of saidin.

 

Also, how easy was it for Semi to just up and become Anath, who held a high blood position or whatever. You don't get to *that* very quickly either.

Sea folk leadership are more scattered than those of any other faction. There are limits to what one can do in a society in which every person's place and history are well known by widely dispersed and continually moving figures.

 

Semi was a 'slave', presumably recommended by a high-ranking Darkfriend after the death of her previous truth-speaker. Da'covale are presumably less scrutinised than  Easy shortcut to the top. Also Seanchan has a far, far more centralised command structure than the Sea Folk - they're more like the Aiel in that way too.

 

He could have influence there using intermediaries as with Masema, but I doubt it's his main cover. Especially considering the rather limited evidence of odd behaviour among the Sea Folk. I don't think it would appeal to Demandred's love of commanding armies either.

[dhill]

I think Demandred is Taim I always wanted to say that!

I don't think that there is a single reader out there that wouldn't think that Taim is Demanred if

RJ didn't say many many times that he is not.

I would love for it to turn out that he was.  The big guy would be rollin' around in his grave laughing

about us as we read that he had lied to us for years. Brandan would have to show people RJs notes or

nobody would believe it.

[Sharaman]

If Demandred is with the Borderlanders, their landing up in Far Madding is v. interesting.

The best fighting men West of the Waste are a thousand leagues++ South of where they will like to be, when  Tarwin's Gap or any other border area comes under assault.

It puts them into a situation of potential conflict with the Seanchan if only by moving them closer together.

Most of all, it sets up a crazy situation visavis RaT.

In Arad Doman, Rand was reckless enough to head unarmed into a stedding - there would have been enough intel coming back for the Dark to know that.

Would he come for parley to FM?

If so, Demmy may be able to set up a killing ground o take care of LTT.

Of course Demmy himself probably can't channel (unless he has a well or GLoD lets him draw TP and that works in FM) either.

But he could hope to bring overwhelming conventional force to bear or carry off an assassination.

Does the Borderlanders landing up in FM therefore make it a tad more likely Demandred is indeed with them?

 

 

 

 

 

[Choedan Kal]

I disagree Sharaman: Brandon Sanderson has claimed that you can use the True Power in FM. So if Demandred was able to use the True Power from the DO then he would have a huge advantage being with the Borderlanders in FM waiting to meet Rand.

 

Personally I think it would be awesome if Demandred was the the Ayyad over in Shara because we have never visited this region in the WoT world.

 

Demandred could also be with the Land of the Madmen since this was not visited yet in the WoT books other then a quote from a SF Windfinder.

[Crael123]

Demandred is not in Shara. there is no way. if such a pivotal character was in there it would have been mentioned more than in a passing like it has been and something would have happened there already. anyway, Graendal has already spread chaos there by taking their rulers. he is propably in the borderlands or murandy

[Sharaman]

I disagree Sharaman: Brandon Sanderson has claimed that you can use the True Power in FM. So if Demandred was able to use the True Power from the DO then he would have a huge advantage being with the Borderlanders in FM waiting to meet Rand.

 

Personally I think it would be awesome if Demandred was the the Ayyad over in Shara because we have never visited this region in the WoT world.

 

Demandred could also be with the Land of the Madmen since this was not visited yet in the WoT books other then a quote from a SF Windfinder.

Oh he could be anywhere. What specifically do you disagree with?

[analyticalkeys]

Demandred is not in Shara. there is no way. if such a pivotal character was in there it would have been mentioned more than in a passing like it has been and something would have happened there already. anyway, Graendal has already spread chaos there by taking their rulers. he is propably in the borderlands or murandy

 

Not true. He could easily just appear with a group of Ayyad and explain what he's been doing, and that's that. Anyway, Demandred himself has barely been mentioned in more than just passing either.