Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[mb]

Shara, I doubt Demandred would be afraid of its female channelers.  He might mask his ability to channel.

About outsiders, Graendal managed to kidnap its king and queen.

They have to be introduced for them to invade Randland? That is not necessarily so.  Unknown invaders occur in various genres.  And less was known about the Seanchan before their first appearance.  (Great Hunt)

 

 

Black Tower to me would be the most probable place for Demandred to live at.

Recruiting trips would be a good time for Demandred to visit his proxies.

 

[lbeefus]

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

One thing that's interesting about this theory is that its been established that the TP can cure madness (whereas the one power can't).  Presumably, Moridin could cure the madmen there, in addition to the Dark One protecting them from the taint.  In theory, the Dark One could grant Demandred that ability as well... certainly, Demandred seems to be higher in the Dark One's regard than most of the chosen.

[Lord D]

Shara, I doubt Demandred would be afraid of its female channelers.  He might mask his ability to channel.

About outsiders, Graendal managed to kidnap its king and queen.

They have to be introduced for them to invade Randland? That is not necessarily so.  Unknown invaders occur in various genres.  And less was known about the Seanchan before their first appearance.  (Great Hunt)

 

 

Black Tower to me would be the most probable place for Demandred to live at.

Recruiting trips would be a good time for Demandred to visit his proxies.

 

 

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.  If he wants to persuade the Sharans to do as the DO says, he would need to do some channeling, which could make him vulnerable to female channelers.  Presumably Graendal used a snatch-and-grab, and wasn't around in Shara for long.

[Sharaman]

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

One thing that's interesting about this theory is that its been established that the TP can cure madness (whereas the one power can't).  Presumably, Moridin could cure the madmen there, in addition to the Dark One protecting them from the taint.  In theory, the Dark One could grant Demandred that ability as well... certainly, Demandred seems to be higher in the Dark One's regard than most of the chosen.

 

Well, Ishamel says something like "Your sisters could do this better", which does imply that OP can also cure/ mitigate madness. LTT wasn't "cured", he was just made rational so, he would feel despair because he realised what he had done. 

 

[Crael123]

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

One thing that's interesting about this theory is that its been established that the TP can cure madness (whereas the one power can't).  Presumably, Moridin could cure the madmen there, in addition to the Dark One protecting them from the taint.  In theory, the Dark One could grant Demandred that ability as well... certainly, Demandred seems to be higher in the Dark One's regard than most of the chosen.

 

Well, Ishamel says something like "Your sisters could do this better", which does imply that OP can also cure/ mitigate madness. LTT wasn't "cured", he was just made rational so, he would feel despair because he realised what he had done. 

 

 

well true power healing is going to be MUCH different than one power healing. the TP is essentially evil and the OP is essentially good/ neutral. so the Healing administered on LTT was extremely painful for him, cuz it was TP, but it got the job done. also we have to assume the TP can do things the OP cant, or at least I feel that way.

[JakeBarnes]

The point is we do have a reason to believe the OP can cure madness, because Ishamael tells LTT that one of the female channelers could have done a better job at healing his madness.  It doesn't matter that the TP is painful to LTT, we don't know for sure that the OP would be a painLESS way to do it. 

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

i thought ishy told LTT that a sisters healing would only give him a few lucid mopments, that doesnt seem to be "better" healing than with the true power. he says the great lords healing is much more painfull, and i got the impression that the healing itself was more permanent, it  was just the outcome of realisation that killed LTT, not madness.

[Sharaman]

IIRC Ishamel says "My healing will serve as well for my purpose but it's more rough". My interpretation was, Elan's TP healing can do about the same as the OP healing by a female AS - offer some lucid time but it's more painful.

Anyway - to return to topic, I don't think Demandred is in the land of madmen.

 

[mikael]

To casual readers the Land of Madmen would be a giant cop out. Shara would be ok imo since theres been information about them every now and then, but I doubt they will make an appearance since it would be pretty weak to introduce a new power out of the blue like that. Especially since they should at least have a White Tower equivalent of channelers or probably more.

 

Its a shame though, its like aliens invaded Europe and the rest of the world didnt react. Admittedly Seanchan did react but they seem more intent on conquering people than fighting the Shadow and the Sea Folk are also more interested in securing land than in fighting the power that seek to destroy them...

[WolfTwins]

 

  Hear this!

Demandred is a Sharan general who will seduce Berelain and ally himself with the Seanchans, therefore he will unite three Hawkwing descendant kingdoms. So there will be "three shall be one"... without the blade of light...

    :D

[JakeBarnes]

Your theory seems solid, but it lacks a Bela.

[WolfTwins]

Your theory seems solid, but it lacks a Bela.

    :P

 

  Oh, Bela, oh mia bella... where are you? Ask ed2funy...

 

  Sorry, I know it's a kind a funny theory, but imagine Demandred togheter with Berelain and a third Hawkwing descendant... Not likewise but I like that picture.

 

[mb]

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.

Demandred could have joined after the bodyguard was chosen.

 

[Sharaman]

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.

Demandred could have joined after the bodyguard was chosen.

 

He doesn't recognise the uniform either.

[thewalrus777]

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.

Demandred could have joined after the bodyguard was chosen.

 

He doesn't recognise the uniform either.

 

I take Demandred not knowing anything about the BT, as a sure-fire sign that he is clearly not envolved with the BT.

[WolfDragonFox]

I have a funny thot that i've been trying to work out for years and some may think it belongs in the WOT movie thread but I really want to ask it here.  I have some clever ideas and since I've been making a living as a filmmaker I have seen ways to do it but how do any of you think it will be done in the movie to hide Demandred's identity when in the book we see him in many scenes without knowing who he really is.  How do you think the mystery of the books and stay true to the books.

[Sharaman]

I have a funny thot that i've been trying to work out for years and some may think it belongs in the WOT movie thread but I really want to ask it here.  I have some clever ideas and since I've been making a living as a filmmaker I have seen ways to do it but how do any of you think it will be done in the movie to hide Demandred's identity when in the book we see him in many scenes without knowing who he really is.  How do you think the mystery of the books and stay true to the books.

 

Buddy, won't this be an issue all through any visual representation?

So many people use Mask of Mirrors - Lanfear, Rand, Mesaana,---.

For that matter, you have the whole ageless business. Also, how do you represent GLoD yelling in somebody's head?

Or Rand drawing TP ?

You're a movie guy so I'm guessing you and your fellow pros will have to find nifty ways to work around this.

 

[Eht Slat Meit]

 

Buddy, won't this be an issue all through any visual representation?

So many people use Mask of Mirrors - Lanfear, Rand, Mesaana,---.

For that matter, you have the whole ageless business. Also, how do you represent GLoD yelling in somebody's head?

Or Rand drawing TP ?

You're a movie guy so I'm guessing you and your fellow pros will have to find nifty ways to work around this.

 

A lot of that stuff should simply be a matter of proper storytelling, less than actual special effects.

1. Mask of Mirrors? Ideally, you don't want people to know until after it happens or unless knowing is a plot element. Want them to guess or speculate? Visual scratchover similar to the effects they do in hyperadrenaline movies like Feast.

2. Agelessness as a physical appearance? It exists in real life. Find a few good ladies that represent it well and model characters after it.

3. GLoD voiceovers

4. TP = Shadow effect in the tradition energy powers in the superhero movies. Whoever is cast as Rand better be an awesome character actor anyway.

 

There are so many resources available to movies these days that it's inexcusable for them not to come up with a way to do it... the problem is finding ways to mitigate the cost.

[Gordar]

I have a funny thot that i've been trying to work out for years and some may think it belongs in the WOT movie thread but I really want to ask it here.  I have some clever ideas and since I've been making a living as a filmmaker I have seen ways to do it but how do any of you think it will be done in the movie to hide Demandred's identity when in the book we see him in many scenes without knowing who he really is.  How do you think the mystery of the books and stay true to the books.

 

It depends on who's place Demandred has taken over. If he's some Sharan general or a rebel leader in Seanchan you don't need to hide him. If he's someone that plays a role in the books, just show Demandred's back when he's at the meetings in Shayol Ghul so that nobody can see his face & do show his face when he's impersonating whoever it is he's impersonating. If he's using a MoM, use make-up to change his appearance.

[bronnt]

I have a tough time seeing how a WoT film would work.  I mean, EotW has enough material on its own to make a rather long film.  Are we talking about a 14-film series?  It would be tough to get people on board with such an expansive project.

 

Given how special effects for network series' are evolving and budgets keep getting better, I think it might be do-able as a full-length television series.  There's plenty of climaxes that you could do hour-long episodes and include most of the material from the books, and you'd be able to run it for say, 3 seasons.

 

Given how big the WoT community is, I'm sure the ratings would be off the chart.  You'd need a very committed network, though, to find the right director and make sure there's enough budget to cover things like set design.  Given how many distinct locations there are, this is the most cost-prohibitive aspect (I'm fairly sure).  Think about it-EotW, the minimum number of distinct sets you'd need is something like 15, assuming you can rehash random wooded areas and generic villages.  And the thing is, you'd use the Caemlyn set in one of the first few episodes, then it's shelved for over a year, and you need to be able to bring back the Royal Palace set for Rand's battle with Rah'vin.  It's above and beyond the scope of a tv series.

 

I still think that's better than trying to condense the series in a manner that lets it work on film.  When they did Lord of the Rings, they had a huge budget, they did three very long films to cover those three books, and LotR fans were still really mad about how much was left out/changed, despite how well the films turned out.

[mb]

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.

Demandred could have joined after the bodyguard was chosen.

He doesn't recognise the uniform either.

Shortly after encountering Flinn, he correctly guessed that Flinn was a Ashaman.  That to me indicates that he did recognize the uniform.

 

[egwenes#1hater]

WInter's Heart pg 752-753 with the choedan kal

 

"the old man's head was turning as if he were searching for something among the trees, but Demandred doubted a fellow tha decrepit could see very far"..........."Demandred found himself frantically fending of a net of saidin"........."That tottering old man was an Asha'man"

 

make of it what u will

[thewalrus777]

Demandred is clearly not at the Black Tower, as indicated by his failure to recognise Flinn at the cleansing in WH.

Demandred could have joined after the bodyguard was chosen.

He doesn't recognise the uniform either.

Shortly after encountering Flinn, he correctly guessed that Flinn was a Ashaman.  That to me indicates that he did recognize the uniform.

 

 

Demandred may have never seen an Asha'man, but he isn't uninformed either. I'm pretty sure he was well aware of the descriptions af what Asha'man look like. He at the time was concentrating on trying to stop Rand from cleansing the source. An event more important event to him than recognizing Asha'man. More importantly he had to know they were Asha'man due to the fact they were male channelers, other than Osan'gar, Aran'gar, and Ishidin.

 

WInter's Heart pg 752-753 with the choedan kal

 

"the old man's head was turning as if he were searching for something among the trees, but Demandred doubted a fellow tha decrepit could see very far"..........."Demandred found himself frantically fending of a net of saidin"........."That tottering old man was an Asha'man"

 

make of it what u will

 

This furthers the thought that Demandred, although not involved witht the workings of the BT, is very informed of what Asha'man are. He knows just by Flinn channeling at him.

[jemron]

I have a funny thot that i've been trying to work out for years and some may think it belongs in the WOT movie thread but I really want to ask it here.  I have some clever ideas and since I've been making a living as a filmmaker I have seen ways to do it but how do any of you think it will be done in the movie to hide Demandred's identity when in the book we see him in many scenes without knowing who he really is.  How do you think the mystery of the books and stay true to the books.

 

I'm pretty sure that RJ specifically said that we have only seen Demandred "on screen" as himself, and that his "alias" hasn't been onscreen yet.  So, in this case, it would be quite easy to do this, considering the only times Demandred has been in the stories is when he is himself.

[StefanR]

I have a tough time seeing how a WoT film would work.  I mean, EotW has enough material on its own to make a rather long film.  Are we talking about a 14-film series?  It would be tough to get people on board with such an expansive project.

 

Given how special effects for network series' are evolving and budgets keep getting better, I think it might be do-able as a full-length television series.  There's plenty of climaxes that you could do hour-long episodes and include most of the material from the books, and you'd be able to run it for say, 3 seasons.

 

Given how big the WoT community is, I'm sure the ratings would be off the chart.  You'd need a very committed network, though, to find the right director and make sure there's enough budget to cover things like set design.  Given how many distinct locations there are, this is the most cost-prohibitive aspect (I'm fairly sure).  Think about it-EotW, the minimum number of distinct sets you'd need is something like 15, assuming you can rehash random wooded areas and generic villages.  And the thing is, you'd use the Caemlyn set in one of the first few episodes, then it's shelved for over a year, and you need to be able to bring back the Royal Palace set for Rand's battle with Rah'vin.  It's above and beyond the scope of a tv series.

 

I still think that's better than trying to condense the series in a manner that lets it work on film.  When they did Lord of the Rings, they had a huge budget, they did three very long films to cover those three books, and LotR fans were still really mad about how much was left out/changed, despite how well the films turned out.

 

Sounds like Legend of the seeker all over again if it's made into a tv show