Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[Ishna]

I see your point about Murandy and the borderlanders. I still dontthink its likely that Demandred does impersonate someone the way Belal, Rahvin or Sammael did.

Although the "We gather for war, we will be ready" might refer to how he is gonna sellout the army he is with to the shadow by letting trollocs come in on a huge surpriseattack Would be neat for example to get rid of the borderlanders for the shadow.... Supriseattack with Taim/DF ashamans and or Black Ajah and shadowspawn.

[Azrael Maravaile]

Hey guys (and ladies)

 

everybody goes round and round about this subject.  Maybe a reboot would help.

 

so: WHAT CHARACTER (MALE)DO YOU THINK IS LEAST LIKELY TO BE DEMANDRED.

 

The grump

 

come on, it is blatently obvious that he is mazrim taim... and before the craziness starts up yes that was a joke

[thewalrus777]

I firmly believe Demandred does have a set rule, just not he way we think. He loves proxies. I would imagine he has Murandy under his belt. And no, he's not the king. The king is probably a DF setup by Demi. He's gotta have people in the BT doing his biddings. Demandred never ruled anything outright. Not even in the AoL. He prefers proxies. He thinks people are more likely to do his bidding if they aren't just taking orders directly from The Chosen. Demandred has his hands in everything. He's just been manipulating things from behind the scenes. And who knows where the hell his base of operations is. IT could be in Shara. It's not like we ever have to see the place. It could be the Land of Madmen. What better places to hide than places that Rand would never bother to look. I'm just saying everything Demi is vague. What he's doin', where he's located, and who the hell is actually under his control. I doubt will even get to know if he actually has an alter ego. He'll probably just show up and try to kill Rand.

[Sharaman]

I've always thought Demandred was impersonating Berelain. Everything would fit except for RJ's statement that he hadn;t been seen onscreen in his secret id.

 

[b9anders]

I do not believe he is with the Borderlanders as they are in a stedding. That deprives Demandred of his number one asset: his powerful channeling ability.

 

Not a stedding actually, although by and large similar.

 

The armies however, were IIRC camped outside Far Madding. He could have stayed with them.

[rubbernilly]

Rand's party had to ride out a little ways from Far Madding to escape the effect of the Guardian. My guess is that even though the armies are outside the city walls, they are still within the effect of the Guardian.

[Dead Guy]

What does a person who can Travel need a base of operations for anyway? Everything is as long as it takes to familiarize yourself with the place you're at away at all times. Stash your angreal somewhere if you can't carry them, Travel there if you need them. Staying in one place very long seems like asking for a train of crap hitting a fan to come your way.

 

Everyone who have set themselves up in a castle or such so far has had their butt handed to them by Rand et al. Except Moridin, wherever he's holed up, and Mesaana. The reason why they don't storm into her "base" with balefire blazing might be obvious.

 

Also, it would be refreshing if the old go-to-the-forsakens-fort-for-big-showdown routine didn't have another showing. Or the forsaken-shows-up-as-Rand-does-important-stuff routine for that matter :p I guess that one is even more frequent actually?

 

Ah well, I hope Demandred can unleash his hatred in a more interesting way at least...

[rubbernilly]

Also, it would be refreshing if the old go-to-the-forsakens-fort-for-big-showdown routine didn't have another showing. Or the forsaken-shows-up-as-Rand-does-important-stuff routine for that matter :p I guess that one is even more frequent actually?

 

You have't left a lot of room for much more than sheer chance meetup. I mean, if Rand can't go to them, and they can't come to him except when he is doing something unimportant (or nothing at all), there's not much left. At this point, any trap they lay is going to invovle Rand doing something that he, at least, thinks is important enough to do. Like Semhirage. She put herself in a position to capture Rand by luring him to her. She didn't expect Cadsuane's weave-cancelling ter'angreal, so she lost... but certainly Rand meeting wih the DotNM would be something important for him to do, so her trap would count as them showing up when he was doing something important.

 

Just saying.

 

Personally, I think that Demandred, being the great General that everyone claims him to be, will be one of the Forsaken still on the field during the Last Battle. I bet he brings an army (I'm counting on Shara*), and tries to mow rand over. Now, we've been told (how many times?) that a good general doesn't lead from the front, so it will take Rand (or Logain?) doing something in the battle to get to Demandred, or to chase him somewhere, but that could be different from other encounters with Forsaken.

 

*nothing about upheaval in Shara necessarily undermines Demandred's statement that his rule is "secure." That just means that he isn't in danger of losing control. Not only is a Forsaken sowing chaos pretty good at managing that chaos, but Demandred, being a great general who likes to use proxies, probably has several proxies in place orchestrating the whole thing... any way it goes, Demandred is in a good position to remain in control. Therefore, his rule is "secure."

[Sharaman]

I love the thought of Demandred taking the field with 10,000 bad-ass, pathologically lying, women channelers and 200,000 silk-clad warriors. But do you really think that's going to happen?

 

 

[Crael123]

I love the thought of Demandred taking the field with 10,000 bad-ass, pathologically lying, women channelers and 200,000 silk-clad warriors. But do you really think that's going to happen?

 

 

 

.....yes.i do.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

despite what some think, we DO know quite a bit about shara, and it often hinted at. also, dont forget that originally there was going to be "outriggers" which possibly would have expanded on the culture more. however, with the potential non-writing of the outriggers, who knows? i do think it was highly probable as an original plan for him.

[Crael123]

despite what some think, we DO know quite a bit about shara, and it often hinted at. also, dont forget that originally there was going to be "outriggers" which possibly would have expanded on the culture more. however, with the potential non-writing of the outriggers, who knows? i do think it was highly probable as an original plan for him.

 

when was this hinted?

 

[Mordaunt]

I'm sure he was the figure of light that Masema indicated seeing. This would fit in with the proxy theory, also the "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" time period. Sure, the meeting with Moridin occurred after Masema was killed, but Demandred wouldn't yet know Masema was dead.

 

I don't believe Demandred is in Shara because the whole of Shara is warring with themselves, which doesn't fit Demandred's uses of proxies (however compulsing/replacing the sh'leaders etc would).

[thewalrus777]

Like I said earlier, Demandred could be anywhere. More than likely, he's probably pooling resources from everywhere. Shara and the Land of Madmen included. He's apparently an extremely resourceful and persuasive individual. Apparently it does not matter where he will be getting his army from. All that army will know is who's issuing orders to them, and not whose controlling there rulers. He's a very deceptive individual. That's what makes me think we'll probably never see his possible alter ego. Why? Because he may not have one, or really doesn't need one due to how he handles his business.

[rubbernilly]

That's what makes me think we'll probably never see his possible alter ego. Why? Because he may not have one, or really doesn't need one due to how he handles his business.

 

But eventually he will have to lay his cards on the table. We may not know his alter-ego (he may not have one), and we may not know his proxies... but when he shows up on the scene and plays his hand, we will at least know where he has been concentrating his efforts, which is just as good.

[thewalrus777]

That's what makes me think we'll probably never see his possible alter ego. Why? Because he may not have one, or really doesn't need one due to how he handles his business.

 

But eventually he will have to lay his cards on the table. We may not know his alter-ego (he may not have one), and we may not know his proxies... but when he shows up on the scene and plays his hand, we will at least know where he has been concentrating his efforts, which is just as good.

 

True. He's such a vague and mysterious character, that it requires some sort of closure.

[JakeBarnes]

That's what makes me think we'll probably never see his possible alter ego. Why? Because he may not have one, or really doesn't need one due to how he handles his business.

 

But eventually he will have to lay his cards on the table. We may not know his alter-ego (he may not have one), and we may not know his proxies... but when he shows up on the scene and plays his hand, we will at least know where he has been concentrating his efforts, which is just as good.

 

I agree with this.  Imo Demandred has just been manipulating certain groups into doing things.  Taim, Masema, the Borderland armies.  To do this, he doesn't necessarily need an alter-ego.  He could just go to DF's and say "do my bidding".

 

True. He's such a vague and mysterious character, that it requires some sort of closure.

[mbuehner]

Why assume he's commanding humans? The trolloc hoards need a general, and who better? Who else is available for that matter. Somebody has to do the dirty business of running the shadowspawn side of the war.

[JakeBarnes]

Because all of the information we have indicates he is manipulating events in Randland.  Sammael thought that he was affecting events.  He was in Andor spying on Elayne.  Maybe he is controlling Trollocs, but if he is his rule isn't very secure because someone sent thousands to attack Rand at the manor house.

 

The point I was trying to make is that his inclination to doing things by proxy facilitates him not needing a cover.  There are plenty of DFs set up in all organizations to allow him control.

[thewalrus777]

Why assume he's commanding humans? The trolloc hoards need a general, and who better? Who else is available for that matter. Somebody has to do the dirty business of running the shadowspawn side of the war.

 

Well we know that Moridin is located in the Blight somewhere. He's the one probably manuvering the Shadowspawn into position just by his location alone. But whose to say Demandred isn't also gathering Shadowspawn as well. He's got his dirty little fingers, in everybody's pie. Demandred is a master manipulator who also happens to be an awesome field general. He was pretty much given free range by the DO and Moridin. He only had one rule to follow. DO NOT KILL RAND AL'THOR. Everything else is considered fair game. Demandred was considered the 2nd greatest man alive next to Lews Therin back in the AoL. He's an extremely capable individual.

[Lord D]

I very much doubt that Demandred is in Shara.  The reasons are:

 

• We know that Shara is basically run by female channelers.  Although there is a king or queen who rules for 7 years, dies and hands over to their spouse, who rules for seven more years, etc, and that that king or queen theoretically has absolute authority, in actual fact the female Ayyad control the throne, and are clearly responsible for the 7-year cycle.  It seems highly unlikely that Demandred would be able to take over a country ruled by female channelers.  Male channelers in Shara are killed either when they start to channel or at 21, whichever comes first, and are used only as breeding stock, so are not a factor.
  
• From all we've heard about Shara over the books, they allow only the most minimal contact with outsiders.  It thus seems that they're very happy to keep themselves to themselves, and would be very reluctant to get themselves involved with other peoples' wars.  This would be difficult for Demandred to alter.
  
• As pointed out by other people, the Sharan culture would have to be introduced if they invade Randland.  There simply isn't time to introduce a whole different culture.  All we know at the moment is that they're run by the 7-yr king/queen who is a puppet of the Ayyad.  We need to know much more if they're supposed to invade.
  

 

 

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sharaman]

I very much doubt that Demandred is in Shara.  The reasons are:

 

• We know that Shara is basically run by female channelers.  Although there is a king or queen who rules for 7 years, dies and hands over to their spouse, who rules for seven more years, etc, and that that king or queen theoretically has absolute authority, in actual fact the female Ayyad control the throne, and are clearly responsible for the 7-year cycle.  It seems highly unlikely that Demandred would be able to take over a country ruled by female channelers.  Male channelers in Shara are killed either when they start to channel or at 21, whichever comes first, and are used only as breeding stock, so are not a factor.
  
• From all we've heard about Shara over the books, they allow only the most minimal contact with outsiders.  It thus seems that they're very happy to keep themselves to themselves, and would be very reluctant to get themselves involved with other peoples' wars.  This would be difficult for Demandred to alter.
  
• As pointed out by other people, the Sharan culture would have to be introduced if they invade Randland.  There simply isn't time to introduce a whole different culture.  All we know at the moment is that they're run by the 7-yr king/queen who is a puppet of the Ayyad.  We need to know much more if they're supposed to invade.
  

 

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

 

Same culture issues arise for Land of Madmen. In fact, the LoM is even more unknown than Shara to readers, it's not mentioned except in the BWB.

Brandon would have to introduce an entirely new rabbit from the hat for LoM as much as for Shara.

What's more, the cleansing of Saidin doesn't cure chaps who have already gone mad.

Demandred would have to either use loons or use TP's "rough healing" methods (and he doesn't have GLoD's permission for TP and we don't know if he has any healing ability at all) as in EotW prologue.

Dem has to be either in mainstream Randland or maybe in the Blight.

 

 

[rubbernilly]

I agree that less is known about the Land of Madmen than Shara. Imagine if you had never read the BWBWBA and never heard of the LoM... when it came up that that was where Demandred was you would feel cheated out of figuring out the mystery. It would be like a murder-mystery author concluding in the last chapter that the murderer was really... this guy you had never seen before, until mentioned right now.

 

Although, about the LoM... does anyone else get the feeling that the men there can't *still* be running around mad? That eventually the women channelers got in control and settled the place down? Otherwise we'd be having more world-breaking going on.

 

Really, that place strikes me like Australia. If Australia were known as "Land of Criminals," we might expect to find a lawless country. Sure, it was founded that way (aside from indigenous peoples). It *used* to be a penal colony... but if you stopped there you'd never understand the modern day country and culture that developed there. I think of the LoM the same way.

[Lord D]

I very much doubt that Demandred is in Shara.  The reasons are:
 
 
 

• As pointed out by other people, the Sharan culture would have to be introduced if they invade Randland.  There simply isn't time to introduce a whole different culture.  All we know at the moment is that they're run by the 7-yr king/queen who is a puppet of the Ayyad.  We need to know much more if they're supposed to invade.
  

 

So where is Demandred then?  I think he's most probably on the Land of the Madmen.  In this land there are plenty of male and female channelers.  The men are mad.  It's likely that Demandred could overpower some of the men in single combat with the power.  This would enable him to gain respect with others.  He might then be able to persuade them to swear fealty to the Shadow, and give them protection from saidin's madness.  If he teaches them how to Travel, the Shadow would have its own channelers to throw against Rand and co.

 

 

Same culture issues arise for Land of Madmen. In fact, the LoM is even more unknown than Shara to readers, it's not mentioned except in the BWB.

Brandon would have to introduce an entirely new rabbit from the hat for LoM as much as for Shara.

What's more, the cleansing of Saidin doesn't cure chaps who have already gone mad.

Demandred would have to either use loons or use TP's "rough healing" methods (and he doesn't have GLoD's permission for TP and we don't know if he has any healing ability at all) as in EotW prologue.

Dem has to be either in mainstream Randland or maybe in the Blight.

 

 

 

If the LoM truly is mad, then there's no real culture in it; it's just complete barbarism.  This is easier to introduce than a civilisation like Shara.  I actually think Demandred went to the LoM before the cleansing of saidin.  He could then have persuaded the men there to swear fealty to the Shadow, and in return get the black bonds that shield the male Forsaken from the taint.  It's obvious that in Randland the non-Shadow forces have a monopoly on channelers and angreal, so the Shadow definitely needs more channelers.

[Lord D]

I agree that less is known about the Land of Madmen than Shara. Imagine if you had never read the BWBWBA and never heard of the LoM... when it came up that that was where Demandred was you would feel cheated out of figuring out the mystery. It would be like a murder-mystery author concluding in the last chapter that the murderer was really... this guy you had never seen before, until mentioned right now.

 

Although, about the LoM... does anyone else get the feeling that the men there can't *still* be running around mad? That eventually the women channelers got in control and settled the place down? Otherwise we'd be having more world-breaking going on.

 

Really, that place strikes me like Australia. If Australia were known as "Land of Criminals," we might expect to find a lawless country. Sure, it was founded that way (aside from indigenous peoples). It *used* to be a penal colony... but if you stopped there you'd never understand the modern day country and culture that developed there. I think of the LoM the same way.

 

The WoT is fantasy, not detective.  Just because the LoM isn't mentioned in any of the actual books doesn't mean it can't have a role to play.  At the moment, the only ones who know about it are the Sea Folk, and they aren't telling.  Maybe there is still world-breaking going on, but only in the LoM, so it doesn't affect the other continents.  Since the Sea Folk have actually roughly mapped the LoM, they must go there now and again.