The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[lammbo]

From the list of things ruled out:  

 

**A.R. to the Tower of Ghenjei, the doorway ter’angreal, the Finn’s, or prophecies or knowledge relating to either.

 

So, unless you want to play semantics, it has NOTHING to do with the Finns, or the tower.

 

Damn, missed it on the list...

 

I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't just a big joke BS is playing on us to keep us busy until the next book comes out.  :P

 

If nothing else, maybe my posts helped someone else think of something then.

[JakeBarnes]

It may not be the BUT, but it will still be very rewarding if we actually find out about the memories and what happens if you enter a second time.  I can't wait. 

 

I'm re-posting Luckers' list so it's at the end of the thread for reference. 

 

From Luckers:

--Things we can probably rule out based on the Theorylander discussion.

 

Certain parts of these comments were inaccurate, therefore depending on Peter’s thoughts on the importance of technicalities may still be viable.

 

•   Elayne and Nynaeve’s use of Need in TAR which led to the *angreal storeroom [note: The theorylanders only discussed this in terms of E&N using Need to find a ter’angreal which fixes the weather, which is not accurate. They were using Need to find something to help Rand, and to convince the the Salidar Aes Sedai to stand with him (which led to the Bowl of the Winds and their claims that it required a man to work).]

•   Farstrider in Graendal’s lair [note: In my opinion the old man is more likely Alsalam, but irrespective as with above the Graendal’s ‘old man’ may still be viable, provided he isn’t in fact Farstrider]

 

--Things we can fully rule out based on the Theorylander discussion.

 

( * ) means more than one mention in the thread.

( ** ) means detailed conversation occurred on this subject in the thread.

 

•   **A.R. (anything related) to Birgitte, her expulsion from TAR, or Moghedian controlling her.

•   A.R. to Slayer in the Two Rivers, or him entering ToG.

•   *A.R. to the ter’angreal stash in Rhuidean, or those taken by Moiraine.

•   A.R. to Egeanin’s appearance in the story.

•   A.R. to Fel’s note, philosophy, or instructions to Rand.

•   **A.R. to Shara, or reports of war there.

•   **A.R. to the Tinker wagons Mat finds destroyed in LoC.

•   A.R. to either of Moiraine’s notes.

•   *A.R. to any actions of the Gholam.

•   **A.R. to the Tower of Ghenjei, the doorway ter’angreal, the Finn’s, or prophecies or knowledge relating to either.

•   A.R. to the sisters Siuan sent to recapture Taim.

•   A.R. to the question of who killed Sahra Covenry.

•   **A.R. to Graendal’s meeting with Inturalde, or what she may have done to him.

•   A.R. to the Pit of Doom being in a different world.

•   *A.R. to Rand becoming Moridin.

•   **A.R. to Rand being one with the land, or the changing influence of his ta’verenism, or the effects his corrupted wounds might have through his ta’verenism.

•   A.R. to Asmodean.

•   A.R. to Taim gaining his freedom, or dealing with Bashere.

•   **A.R. to the Aiel Memory Collumns, the seed singing, or the Song, including Ogier, Tinker and Aiel implications.

•   A.R. to Moiraine’s knowledge of the future.

•   A.R. to Fain in books 4-6.

•   **A.R. to the Ashendarei, or the reasons the Finns gave it to Mat.

•   A.R. to Avendesora, including the correlation between Rand’s feelings under Avendesora, and his feelings in Veins of gold.

•   A.R. to Min’s viewing in tSR, including that of the apple cheeked accepted [Theodrin???] behind bars.

 

[Som1else]

Maybe Sanderson was  giving an Aei Sedai answer when he said it started in Between books 4-6 maybe it is a somthing mentioned that happened after book four or five but before book six this would make sense as to why it hasent been disscussed anywhere

[aunt_pol]

 

Well that's the first time I actually read that list with full attention, and I've only this to say.

Shite.

Any flippin' thing I'd even remotely considered is bloody well on there. We've bein going round in feckin' circles for 200 odd pages. Last poster is right.... I reckon this was just a device to shut us up so Brandon could get on with writing the blasted book undisturbed, and we'd stay wittering on here the whole way to autumn!!

 

If, however, he's bein all sneaky Aes Sedai word twister on us, then it had better be good!!

[gooner]

Hiya. First post so pardon me if this has already been mentioned.

 

I've followed this thread with great interest, but it seems there is one thing that has not been mentioned yet and I wondered if this was the 'unnoticed thing'.

 

Galad being Rand's half brother. Tigraine married Taringail Damodred, gave birth to Galad, then off to the Aiel waste to become a maiden and fall in love with Janduin, giving birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount.

 

I believe Rand discovered this in book 6, chapter 16, realising that Tigraine was his mother and Galad his half-brother, finding out from Lady Dyelin.

 

This is common knowledge in the WoT community but seems to be accepted as just 'one of those things' whereas I believe it has potential for a bit of rage happening.

 

With Galad being Lord Captain Commander of the Whitecloaks, and Rand being the Dragon Reborn, this could have a few ramifications. Imagine a scene where Rand goes up to Galad and says 'Hiya bro' and reveals the truth (although rather more eloquently than that of course).

 

It fits the 4-6 criteria. It also seems that it hasn't been discussed much, fitting Brandon Sanderson's saying that he hadn't noticed it in his hovering on forums.

 

Just an idea tho. I may be wrong, but it could have some interesting ramifications.

[saidarisnowtainted]

maybe this was discussed already but could it be as simple as the successive changes in weather.  do they indicate a significant lead-in to something big?

[Rawlax]

I wonder if it is anything to do with Aviendha's trouble forming gateways. If i remember correctly the first gateway running away from Rand was in book 4 and it has been mentioned on and off ever since.

 

Apologies if this has been discussed, the thread is just too long now

 

That is an interesting idea - as I've been doing my reread and saw how Avi is so frustrated with her gateways since she did it a different way the first time I keep hoping that at some point she'll remember her first weave. Maybe something bad will be about to happen to her (or more likely to get a response from her if it is Rand or Elayne that's in danger), and that will trigger her to do the same thing again without thinking, and then she'll know it.

 

But I don't think it's the BUT because I don't really see how there is any sort of a puzzle in it. She did the weave one way the first time, and we already know that if you learn a weave one way it is much more difficult to then try and learn to do it a different way.

 

I just wonder if her first gateway isn't doing exactly what we thought it was. i.e. not the same as a normal gateway

 

I have seen some brief discussions somewhere that it may have gone back/forward in time briefly but nothing convincing. Basically i just have a hunch that we have been hit over the head about Aviendha's trouble forming gateways for it to lead to nothing. I either see it leading to;

 

a)Avi reforms the original gateway and it does something cool (go back in time to save Rand, etc.)

b)Avi has to form a gateway in a hurry and herinability to form it easily gets her in trouble.

 

I feel like i'm clutching at strws but i do think its significant somehow. But with RJ just about any detail could either be of great significance or just minor worldbuilding or both

[dumont76]

From the list of things ruled out: 

 

**A.R. to the Tower of Ghenjei, the doorway ter’angreal, the Finn’s, or prophecies or knowledge relating to either.

 

So, unless you want to play semantics, it has NOTHING to do with the Finns, or the tower.

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh, I have used that reference to kill ideas myself, guess we got carried away with the fun of the doorway Finns...blood and ashes!

maybe this was discussed already but could it be as simple as the successive changes in weather.  do they indicate a significant lead-in to something big?

I do believe BS indicated that it was going to be something big, he did say it is a puzzle that should have been recognized and is bigger than who killed you-know-who...

 

I guess I'll keep after my idea of the siswai Aiel for now :)

[twitch466]

Hey guys, first post here so apologies if this is common knowledge or is way off target, but i don't think I've seen it mentioned in this thread (though I haven't read all 205 pages:P). In book six, when Morgase is trying to escape from the Whitecloaks, her helpers are hung for being darkfriends. She believes that this is just Niall trying to ruin her plans, but in fact the servant helping her is actually the same darkfriend that met Rand and Mat in Four Kings back in tEotW. His name is Paitr, she notices that his accent is from around Four Kings, and his nose looks like it has been broken (from mat's fist.) I'm thinking this could be the minor detail, maybe concerning who the darkfriends were working for, or what they're plans were for Morgase. It seems like the sort of clue RJ would plant, and also is something that BS would be surprised people haven't noticed or discussed. Again, sorry if this basically common knowledge and I was just particularly slow in discovering it.

 

 

Also, in a similar vein, could it be that Morgase signed the Treaty, giving the Children access to Andor. I don't recall ever hearing about what happened to it after the Seanchan took Amador, but it could still be in existence...

[Calderis]

Hiya. First post so pardon me if this has already been mentioned.

 

I've followed this thread with great interest, but it seems there is one thing that has not been mentioned yet and I wondered if this was the 'unnoticed thing'.

 

Galad being Rand's half brother. Tigraine married Taringail Damodred, gave birth to Galad, then off to the Aiel waste to become a maiden and fall in love with Janduin, giving birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount.

 

I believe Rand discovered this in book 6, chapter 16, realising that Tigraine was his mother and Galad his half-brother, finding out from Lady Dyelin.

 

This is common knowledge in the WoT community but seems to be accepted as just 'one of those things' whereas I believe it has potential for a bit of rage happening.

 

With Galad being Lord Captain Commander of the Whitecloaks, and Rand being the Dragon Reborn, this could have a few ramifications. Imagine a scene where Rand goes up to Galad and says 'Hiya bro' and reveals the truth (although rather more eloquently than that of course).

 

It fits the 4-6 criteria. It also seems that it hasn't been discussed much, fitting Brandon Sanderson's saying that he hadn't noticed it in his hovering on forums.

 

Just an idea tho. I may be wrong, but it could have some interesting ramifications.

 

WAAAAAY back in this thread I brought this up. Not for the same reasons as you though. I still think that Galad, as Rand's only living blood relative, could fulfill the "his blood on the rocks" prophecy. Plenty of possibility for drama beforehand though.

[bronnt]

WAAAAAY back in this thread I brought this up. Not for the same reasons as you though. I still think that Galad, as Rand's only living blood relative, could fulfill the "his blood on the rocks" prophecy. Plenty of possibility for drama beforehand though.

 

Didn't see this one before..  It would be an interesting twist, but I think the general conclusion is that Rand's blood has something to do with the fact that he's been wounded by Ishy's TP sword and Fain's dagger, with the two wounds canceling each other.  There's no concrete answers, but it's somethin grelated to those two wounds and what's in his blood-he's absorbed both evils and survived them.

[saidarisnowtainted]

maybe this was discussed already but could it be as simple as the successive changes in weather.  do they indicate a significant lead-in to something big?

I do believe BS indicated that it was going to be something big, he did say it is a puzzle that should have been recognized and is bigger than who killed you-know-who...

 

I guess I'll keep after my idea of the siswai Aiel for now :)

 

i think it is interesting that changes/problems with the weather/climate do not repeat.  Rather, there is always a new problem.  perhaps this is what is causing (god this sounds cheesey but i have to say it) The Gathering Storm?

[Casabamelon]

Because people are questioning what BS said, and apparently are too lazy to look at the FIRST POST.

 

Brandon comments that there is something that begins in books 4-6 that went completely unnoticed by fans as far as he can tell, which is a big deal--bigger than the death of Asmodean. Though it first appeared in books 4-6 it has been mentioned in later books. Or rather it has 'continued' in later books. Here are his words on it.

 

1. Question: You had a quote that we all talked about just recently, that there is a small detail with this secret thing. There were two quotes we put together where you told somebody from Chicago where you say this detail first comes out between books 4-6. Is that verified?

 

1. Answer: It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

 

2. Question: But that’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned?

 

2. Answer: It’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned. It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get. […] I mean, it’s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing…and you guys are very good at finding things and I’m not going to say whether you hit it or not.

 

•   I asked a follow up question about the big clue in books 4-6, asking if the clue became more relevant due to events in the later books, and he said that it didn't, and that it's something we should have picked up on when it appeared. He also issued a caveat (that is basically common sense) that it is possible someone discussed this issue at some point on one of the boards and that he didn't see that, but that he has never seen it raised in his lurkings, and that this issue is more important than who killed you-know-who.

•   Brandon is concerned about the HCFF's digging and digging for the surprise in books 4-6 and ruining it for TOM. Also, he stated he never read anyone discussing it but it is possible someone has. Also, it is some puzzle that should have been looked at when it was first revealed. It's bigger than who killed Asmodean, according to Brandon. [Luckers Note: This seems to confirm that it will be revealed in ToM]

So. This rules out it being the fat man angreal. In fact it kinda puts the crimp on this being an object of any time. 'It's been going for a long time' seems to imply that this overlooked thing is an event, or an effect.

 

My first thought was the Dark One's influence, perhaps especially in the way it continues without any problems from the wardings, but thats too big, and is discussed often--I don't see how Brandon could miss it.

 

Could it be the Wise One's decision to fight in LoC?

 

Note: It is not Rand's saidin sickness. That began in tPoD. (This was suggested before, so best to get it out of the way).

 

Discuss!

 

[deathgate]

It would be an interesting twist, but I think the general conclusion is that Rand's blood has something to do with the fact that he's been wounded by Ishy's TP sword and Fain's dagger, with the two wounds canceling each other. 

 

Where blood from Fain's wound falls on the rocks and cancels out the DO!

or maybe the wound from Ishydin is what causes the link and if it merges with the other wound it will be a three way?  :D

 

[Muad Cheade]

Perhaps it is the Dark One's seals. Not sure if this thought has been put forward. It was first touhed upon in the scope of books 4-6. Moiraine gives one to Rand and scrapes of a sliver. Taim gives Rand one when they first meet. Dobraine Taborwin and Davram Bashere (well, his wife) were both attacked by Darkfriends looking for it.

 

One thing of note is that when Taim first presents it to Rand in LoC, Rand notes that three seals are broken and three are broken, with the seventh still out there. He thinks, "Only four seals stood between humankind and the Dark One. Four, if the last was still whole." However, those three are now the only intact ones.

 

If Tarmon Gai'din is to basically be the War of Power 2.0, the Dark One's power would need to be the same as it was in the Age of Legends which would imply the Great Seals would be broken and the bore opened.

[Crael123]

 

 

 

 

If Tarmon Gai'din is to basically be the War of Power 2.0, the Dark One's power would need to be the same as it was in the Age of Legends which would imply the Great Seals would be broken and the bore opened.

 

i think that that is wrong based on verins comment "the Last battle will not be fought as he believes it will be" or something along those lines. yes armys will play a big part, but not the only part

[dashiva604]

if this has already been discused and discarded than i missed it. but what about "omens"? they seem to be writen off by everyone but the seanchan even when they happen around people like rand mat and perrin in the beginning of tSR. they eventually realize that it was a "bubble of evil" but im pretty sure they dont mention that the cock crowed right before it happened meaning that someone would die. its subtle but how many other times do the "omens" seem to be pretty accurate? i honestly dont know what significance it might have but it could be something new to look at.

[Crael123]

im still reading TSR and i do not remember wear but somebody was talking about the male a'dam and how eventually the male could take control over the females controlling him. maybe?

[cleantoe]

•   A.R. to Fel’s note, philosophy, or instructions to Rand.

 

What about the school Rand set up and Fel's inventions? I'm sure that school has been doing well, and it fits along the lines of the fact that this "BUT" has been active this whole time throughout the series.

 

Must be lots of inventions and stuff there that will help out.

 

I'm certain this must have been mentioned before in this thread, but just bringing it up again to redo the debate.

[Charlz Guybon]

Okay, after reading The Gathering Storm, rereading the good parts and discussing it here and else where I burned on WoT for a while and now I'm back. Unfortunately this thread as gone from page 23 to 206.

 

Will I be safe assuming that what the unnoticed thing is, is as controversial as ever?

[dumont76]

Okay, after reading The Gathering Storm, rereading the good parts and discussing it here and else where I burned on WoT for a while and now I'm back. Unfortunately this thread as gone from page 23 to 206.

 

Will I be safe assuming that what the unnoticed thing is, is as controversial as ever?

 

Basically, yeah.  Dare I say, it does seem as if the focus is tightening a little bit, just a bit though.  If one could look at it from a distance and group items, I think you could almost see some factions forming, very loosely.  Just a few more acceptable ideas being turned over.

 

That said, I have a new one to throw in...or maybe two...:)

 

I know the gate Avi threw open to Seanchan lands (in tFoH) has been mentioned, but what about the people Rand and Avi encountered?  The Seeker (I forget her name) told Rand that those like him were honored and if he went with them so would he be as well.  Was that sarcasm that I totally missed?  Also, what about the menageries?  Why were there so many at one time at Samara?  Flame away!

[Sharaman]

Okay, after reading The Gathering Storm, rereading the good parts and discussing it here and else where I burned on WoT for a while and now I'm back. Unfortunately this thread as gone from page 23 to 206.

 

Will I be safe assuming that what the unnoticed thing is, is as controversial as ever?

 

Basically, yeah.  Dare I say, it does seem as if the focus is tightening a little bit, just a bit though.  If one could look at it from a distance and group items, I think you could almost see some factions forming, very loosely.  Just a few more acceptable ideas being turned over.

 

That said, I have a new one to throw in...or maybe two...:)

 

I know the gate Avi threw open to Seanchan lands (in tFoH) has been mentioned, but what about the people Rand and Avi encountered?  The Seeker (I forget her name) told Rand that those like him were honored and if he went with them so would he be as well.  Was that sarcasm that I totally missed?  Also, what about the menageries?  Why were there so many at one time at Samara?  Flame away!

 

The Seeker was plain and simple lying. Rand knew that Seanchan hunted down and killed male channelers.

The menageries is an interesting point - but it doesn't come up again. The plot only stays connected with Luca. 

 

[foillion]

I know I may have mentioned this before but I'll throw it out there on more time.  I really thing it has to do with the 3 oaths and the ageless look.  When sisters are stilled the ageless look vanishes and they appear quite younger.  They also sweat...  We know that ishy had something to do with the oaths...  it something that is constantly mentioned but no one really ever thinks about.  Very similar to Vin's earring.  Something put into effect by the badguys that everyone overlooks somehow now.  bat that around for a bit.

[Charlz Guybon]

Okay, after reading The Gathering Storm, rereading the good parts and discussing it here and else where I burned on WoT for a while and now I'm back. Unfortunately this thread as gone from page 23 to 206.

 

Will I be safe assuming that what the unnoticed thing is, is as controversial as ever?

 

Basically, yeah.  Dare I say, it does seem as if the focus is tightening a little bit, just a bit though.  If one could look at it from a distance and group items, I think you could almost see some factions forming, very loosely.  Just a few more acceptable ideas being turned over.

 

That said, I have a new one to throw in...or maybe two...:)

 

I know the gate Avi threw open to Seanchan lands (in tFoH) has been mentioned, but what about the people Rand and Avi encountered?  The Seeker (I forget her name) told Rand that those like him were honored and if he went with them so would he be as well.  Was that sarcasm that I totally missed?  Also, what about the menageries?  Why were there so many at one time at Samara?  Flame away!

So, what are these factions?

[Luckers]

I know I may have mentioned this before but I'll throw it out there on more time.  I really thing it has to do with the 3 oaths and the ageless look.  When sisters are stilled the ageless look vanishes and they appear quite younger.  They also sweat...  We know that ishy had something to do with the oaths...  it something that is constantly mentioned but no one really ever thinks about.  Very similar to Vin's earring.  Something put into effect by the badguys that everyone overlooks somehow now.  bat that around for a bit.

 

I dont really agree but there is something to be said for the Vin's Earing aspect of this idea--when stilled a woman looks different--not just herself without the Agelessness, but a different face. This bears distinct similarities to Vin's earing--which was what allowed her to pierce copperclouds--we shrugged off her ability to do so much in the same way the change to the facial features was shrugged off.

 

I know the gate Avi threw open to Seanchan lands (in tFoH) has been mentioned, but what about the people Rand and Avi encountered?  The Seeker (I forget her name) told Rand that those like him were honored and if he went with them so would he be as well.

 

She lied. Seanchan kill male channelers.