The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Shadow Rider]

Moiraine lied!!!

 

In the letter she gave Rand She is "DEAD".

but Thoms letter say's she is still "ALIVE".

How can this be since she is bound by the three oaths, one of the letters is a lie!

is it possible for one bound by the three oaths to "WRITE" a lie!

 

 

"To speak no word that is not true".

her exacat words were not that she was dead so its not a lie and since i dont have the book infront of me right know if it did say it some one else wrote it in her hand

 

Damn!!!I thought I was on to something...I should have checked...she say's I'm gone not dead.....interesting thought though. Can someone bound by the three oaths lie on paper?

"to speak no word that is not true".

[Calderis]

Considering Moiraine's reaction to Alviarin's letter, yes, it is easier to avoid the oath on paper then by spoken word.

[DemandredFO]

Besides, as we have seen, that oath is practically useless anyway.  Everyone knows they're being lied to when AS say things, then they get headaches trying to figure how the AS lied

[Sharaman]

Moiraine nodded when Rand asked if the oath against lying held when he was discussing Alviarin's letter.

I think Pevara and Co. (The BA hunters) also looked for written evidence in the AS histories that some sister may have concocted on the basis that the oath would hold even if it was the written word.

So probably you can't write words that are not true either.

[Shazzai]

Moiraine nodded when Rand asked if the oath against lying held when he was discussing Alviarin's letter.

I think Pevara and Co. (The BA hunters) also looked for written evidence in the AS histories that some sister may have concocted on the basis that the oath would hold even if it was the written word.

So probably you can't write words that are not true either.

 

She nodded, which is ALSO not speaking.  That could have been a lie as well.  Alternately (since Moiraine is a good guy), it seems like the oaths use whatever YOU believe to bind your actions.  Maybe Moiraine holds to a stricter interpretation of the oaths than others might?

[Sharaman]

Moiraine nodded when Rand asked if the oath against lying held when he was discussing Alviarin's letter.

I think Pevara and Co. (The BA hunters) also looked for written evidence in the AS histories that some sister may have concocted on the basis that the oath would hold even if it was the written word.

So probably you can't write words that are not true either.

 

She nodded, which is ALSO not speaking.  That could have been a lie as well.  Alternately (since Moiraine is a good guy), it seems like the oaths use whatever YOU believe to bind your actions.  Maybe Moiraine holds to a stricter interpretation of the oaths than others might?

 

Perhaps. But the BA Hunters did work on the same principles so they also thought it true.

 

[dumont76]

Yes there is certainly more about Taim than we have been told, I'll give you that. I do not think Taim's beard has been brought up enough to be eligible for the BUT.

 

The Spears of the Dragon, however, are a recurring mystery. No one, not even the Aiel themselves seem to understand what the red headbands mean, except that these Aiel have given themselves as property to Rand. The similarities between the siswai'aman and the Kamikaze headbands of Japanese pilots lead me to believe Rand will Sacrifice his 'spear of the dragon' in a necessary but suicidal attack. We know that no Maidens wear the headband, so if Rand needs to sacrifice anyone for the greater good the Spears are a likely choice.

 

Or every Aiel that wears the siswai'aman could be a darkfriend lol, and they are planning to bring chaos to the last battle. They wear the bands so that they know who is dark or not.

Crazier things have happened...

 

I put out both of these ideas approx. 20 pages ago, so I'm on board to pursue your angles on them, since no one said much when I posted 'em. I'll not let that happen to you...

 

I think Taim could be involved as part of the BUT, although I'm in agreement with the majority that it's not "him" that's the BUT. LIke his beard is just teasing to let us know there is more about him and we get to wait and see just how bad that is.

 

I do think the siswai could play the part of the BUT.  Lightly mentioned, then touched on just a little after to state their importance.

 

 

 

[Paerish Swar]

I've always wondered if sometime during the history of the WT there was some poor, misguided, overly literal Aes Sedai (perhaps a would-be White) who after she swore the first oath, "to speak no word that is not true," ended up frantically babbling the second oath . . .

 

"True, true truuue, t'true, true-true trUe trrrue. TRUE!"

 

(Please pardon my use of an expletive there at the end.)

 

Anyway, all of that is just to say that I'm pretty sure a sneaky Aes Sedai could easily convince herself that writing a lie doesn't break her oath.  The wording of the Oaths lends itself to be open to a little bit of personal interpretation.

[Dreamwalker]

Considering Moiraine's reaction to Alviarin's letter, yes, it is easier to avoid the oath on paper then by spoken word.

 

tFoH Ch. 51:

"I assume an Aes Sedai can't write a lie more easily than she can speak one?" He did not wait for her nod.

This means that Moiraine nodded to what Rand said, and at this point we know she's under oath to him, so even if an AS could nod assent to something that's not true under the oaths (which I doubt) I don't think that she's trying to mislead him.

[FarShainMael]

I've always wondered if sometime during the history of the WT there was some poor, misguided, overly literal Aes Sedai (perhaps a would-be White) who after she swore the first oath, "to speak no word that is not true," ended up frantically babbling the second oath . . .

 

"True, true truuue, t'true, true-true trUe trrrue. TRUE!"

 

(Please pardon my use of an expletive there at the end.)

 

ROFLMderriereO!!!!

 

And kindly watch your language, this is a PG13 area!!

 

[shadowkiller_001]

From the Q&A posts;

***

7. Question: Do the Seanchan consider the raid on the White Tower a success?

 

7. Answer: Yes, they consider it a success, but they’re disappointed that they didn’t get their hands on the Aes Sedai superweapon.

***

 

Is this the Horn of Valere? or could this be an angreal or sa'angreal that the Aes Sedai have in storage?

 

Anyone know what this superweapon is?

 

 

[lillcheese]

superweapon = Elayne trying to unravel gateway from the Farm to Caemlyn while Seanchan took Ebou Dar area.  It went big booom. Seanchan are assuming that this was intentional. 

[Som1else]

Moiraine lied!!!

 

In the letter she gave Rand She is "DEAD".

but Thoms letter say's she is still "ALIVE".

How can this be since she is bound by the three oaths, one of the letters is a lie!

is it possible for one bound by the three oaths to "WRITE" a lie!

 

 

"To speak no word that is not true".

if she intended rand to read the letter after she was dead then she wouldnt be lying, no more then a color blind aie sedai say ing the sky was green would be lying because she was saying the truth as she belived it to be

[mossman87]

After reading most of this thread I see two main probabilities:

 

1. The fat man angreal.

 

2. Aiel wearing the siswai'aman.

 

It is definitely NOT the fat man angreal. There was nothing at the time to figure out about it or discuss at the time and that is a criteria BS gave.

 

I have no idea what #2 on your list could possibly be either.

 

Of course there was, mainly what the heck happened to it.  That was at least my first reaction when it was going on.

[morkhon]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

[Rawlax]

I wonder if it is anything to do with Aviendha's trouble forming gateways. If i remember correctly the first gateway running away from Rand was in book 4 and it has been mentioned on and off ever since.

 

Apologies if this has been discussed, the thread is just too long now

[mossman87]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but I always thought they were:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/aiel/siswaiaman.html

TFoH,Ch46  - After the battle at the city of Cairhien, Rand notes many Aiel  spears and gai'shain  wearing scarlet headbands with the Aes Sedai symbol on it. Aviendha  says they are siswai'aman = the spear of the Dragon. They believe serving Rand expiates their sins in failing the Aes Sedai.

 

Is there some other theory on them I've missed?  Because that explanation seems cut and dry to me.  Sure we could question it, but then that goes into just questioning everything we're told, and that'd drive me nuts.

[Corey020]

Hello,

 

Been lurking for a bit, and decided to weigh in on this one.

 

I just started to re-read the series, and am on book four at the moment.  Now I only read book one and then skipped 2 and 3 since I don't have them readily available.

 

While reading the scene where Rand is going back in the Aiel time line I noticed that when the Aiel were leaving Paaren Disen (pg 302 in hardcover), one of them says: "All will be well, all will be well, and all manner of things will be well."

 

I am pretty sure that the Tuatha'an, and the Atha'an Miere use the same/similar phrase.  Does this mean that all he Atha'an Miere are decedents of the Aiel of old?  Or is that just a common phrase that is used.  Does it even matter?

 

[mossman87]

Hello,

 

Been lurking for a bit, and decided to weigh in on this one.

 

I just started to re-read the series, and am on book four at the moment.  Now I only read book one and then skipped 2 and 3 since I don't have them readily available.

 

While reading the scene where Rand is going back in the Aiel time line I noticed that when the Aiel were leaving Paaren Disen (pg 302 in hardcover), one of them says: "All will be well, all will be well, and all manner of things will be well."

 

I am pretty sure that the Tuatha'an, and the Atha'an Miere use the same/similar phrase.  Does this mean that all he Atha'an Miere are decedents of the Aiel of old?  Or is that just a common phrase that is used.  Does it even matter?

 

 

Edit: Read your post wrong, ignore.

[DemandredFO]

Yes, the Tinkers, whatever Amayar are left, hill tribes in seanchan and the Aiel that we know are descended from Da'shain

[Dreamwalker]

I wonder if it is anything to do with Aviendha's trouble forming gateways. If i remember correctly the first gateway running away from Rand was in book 4 and it has been mentioned on and off ever since.

 

Apologies if this has been discussed, the thread is just too long now

 

That is an interesting idea - as I've been doing my reread and saw how Avi is so frustrated with her gateways since she did it a different way the first time I keep hoping that at some point she'll remember her first weave. Maybe something bad will be about to happen to her (or more likely to get a response from her if it is Rand or Elayne that's in danger), and that will trigger her to do the same thing again without thinking, and then she'll know it.

 

But I don't think it's the BUT because I don't really see how there is any sort of a puzzle in it. She did the weave one way the first time, and we already know that if you learn a weave one way it is much more difficult to then try and learn to do it a different way.

[Shadow Rider]

superweapon = Elayne trying to unravel gateway from the Farm to Caemlyn while Seanchan took Ebou Dar area.  It went big booom. Seanchan are assuming that this was intentional. 

 

 

Might be referring to the angreal Egwene used to defeat them.

[Crael123]

superweapon = Elayne trying to unravel gateway from the Farm to Caemlyn while Seanchan took Ebou Dar area.  It went big booom. Seanchan are assuming that this was intentional. 

 

 

Might be referring to the angreal Egwene used to defeat them.

 

no no no it was the unraveling gateway explosion.

[NetSlider]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but I always thought they were:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/aiel/siswaiaman.html

TFoH,Ch46  - After the battle at the city of Cairhien, Rand notes many Aiel  spears and gai'shain  wearing scarlet headbands with the Aes Sedai symbol on it. Aviendha  says they are siswai'aman = the spear of the Dragon. They believe serving Rand expiates their sins in failing the Aes Sedai.

 

Is there some other theory on them I've missed?  Because that explanation seems cut and dry to me.  Sure we could question it, but then that goes into just questioning everything we're told, and that'd drive me nuts.

If serving Rand fails AS that means that they will be all destroyed. The Aiel must never fail the AS again or else...Definitely a great opportunity for plot development.

[StefanR]

Taim using Sammaels mark

 

"the cart in TDR that captures Nynaeve, Elayne, and Egwene, and the back of Sammael's chair in TAR"

 

on top of somebody posing as a forsaken seem to point at Taim