The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[GrandpaG]

I have a feeling that the  AIEL DARKFRIEND thing is going to pop up shortly at the Last Battle thread of Revolution One RP right here on DM.  ;)

[mossman87]

 

Hmm, throwing something out to the field...  I did a quick search, but this thread is so large, that I'm not sure if it has been discussed or not yet. 

 

Have we ever asked how Taim knew the weave to detect a male who can learn to channel? 

 

Three possibilities for how he learned it:

 

1)  He fumbled onto it somehow.   The only issue I have with this however, is that the test took time to conduct, and I can't imagine someone fumbling on a weave, and deciding to stare at random men for hours on end with it and suddenly noticing that the other can channel.  (ie, even if he discovered the weave, he'd have no idea what it did.)

 

2)  Someone taught it to him.  Okay, no male AS for ages, so the only candidates could be the male Chosen.  Now, could we see a scenario where one of the chosen would teach that particular weave to Taim?  We know the Chosen are very selective in the knowledge they 'dole out,' and perfer keeping their underlings ignorant more times than not.  In addition, with the little amount of Taim would have had to learn after being freed from the Aes Sedai, I'm not seeing that particular weave as a priority.  Taim also states that he knew the weave while he was still acting as a false dragon, since he found other males that could channel. 

 

3)  Like Rand, he is 'insane' to some degree, and hearing voices from the last turning of the wheel, and the voice provided the knowledge.  Now, Rand was confused about how Taim managed to hold back the taint for so long, and we've all assumed it was because he has the protection of the dark one.  Is that necessarily the case, or might Taim be as looney as a 20 year mental patient, and just hiding it?

 

What do you guys think?   

 

I'm partial to the thought Ishy trained him and set him on the path to Rand.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

 

Hmm, throwing something out to the field...  I did a quick search, but this thread is so large, that I'm not sure if it has been discussed or not yet. 

 

Have we ever asked how Taim knew the weave to detect a male who can learn to channel? 

 

Three possibilities for how he learned it:

 

1)  He fumbled onto it somehow.   The only issue I have with this however, is that the test took time to conduct, and I can't imagine someone fumbling on a weave, and deciding to stare at random men for hours on end with it and suddenly noticing that the other can channel.  (ie, even if he discovered the weave, he'd have no idea what it did.)

 

2)  Someone taught it to him.  Okay, no male AS for ages, so the only candidates could be the male Chosen.  Now, could we see a scenario where one of the chosen would teach that particular weave to Taim?  We know the Chosen are very selective in the knowledge they 'dole out,' and perfer keeping their underlings ignorant more times than not.  In addition, with the little amount of Taim would have had to learn after being freed from the Aes Sedai, I'm not seeing that particular weave as a priority.  Taim also states that he knew the weave while he was still acting as a false dragon, since he found other males that could channel. 

 

3)  Like Rand, he is 'insane' to some degree, and hearing voices from the last turning of the wheel, and the voice provided the knowledge.  Now, Rand was confused about how Taim managed to hold back the taint for so long, and we've all assumed it was because he has the protection of the dark one.  Is that necessarily the case, or might Taim be as looney as a 20 year mental patient, and just hiding it?

 

What do you guys think?   

 

Taim also taught Rand not to feel the weather. 

[thewalrus777]

And think about it this way. Luckers stated it in a post in the Sammael's Imposter thread. Ishamael has trained male channelers before. He did it before and during the Trolloc Wars. He would likely do it again. Taim just happens to be a prime candidate because he is a DARKFRIEND who can channel. Not to mention all the mannerisms the man has picked up from the Chosen. The phrases he uses, the colors and sigil's he uses. All come from the Chosen. Taim getting trained by Ishidin isn't far-fetched at all. IMHO, I truly believe he was trained by Ishidin and set forth in the world to reek havoc. And seeing as Taim has done such a good job of it, he could easily have been given the mark of Chosen by the DO. He's certainly powerful enough in Saidin. Being as he's almost as strong as Rand in channeling.

[Sharaman]

So Mazrim Taim is The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6?

Big - ok. (Currently) Unnoticed? and Thing?

 

[Dreamwalker]

So Mazrim Taim is The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6?

Big - ok. (Currently) Unnoticed? and Thing?

 

 

Haha, definitely not. Taim has been discussed to death and there's no way Brandon would have missed that with even a cursory look at WoT discussion forums.

[Crael123]

maybe it is.... moirane died? HAHAHAHAH i am silly. ;D

[Xiero]

The only other point i can think of, is Mat's third answer in the door frame under Tier.  How he will "Give up half the light of the world, to save the world"

[Dida]

The only other point i can think of, is Mat's third answer in the door frame under Tier.  How he will "Give up half the light of the world, to save the world"

 

Technically, Mat's 3rd question to the Aelfinn was:

 

Before she was done the man spoke. “The strain is too great. Too great. Ask. Ask!”

“Burn your soul for a craven heart,” Mat growled, “I will that! Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean? I very likely will die if I try. It makes no—”

 

  You thinking of Mat's fourth, fifth, sixth questions to the Aelfinn instead, which is basically the same question over and over:

 

Source: The Shadow Rising book - Chapter 15 "Into the Doorway" - Mat pov in the Aelfinn Realm via the twisted door ter'angreal located in the Stone of Tear.

 

 

Abruptly a dozen of the yellow-clad men were around Mat, seeming to appear out of the air, trying to pull him toward the door. He fought with fists, elbows, knees. “What fate? Burn your hearts, what fate?”

 

It was the room itself that pealed, the walls and floor quivering, nearly taking Mat and his attackers off their feet. “What fate?”

 

The three were on their feet atop the pedestals, and he could not tell which shrieked which answer.

“To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons!”

“To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was!”

“To give up half the light of the world to save the world!”

Together they howled like steam escaping under pressure. “Go to Rhuidean, son of battles! Go to Rhuidean, trickster! Go, gambler! Go!”

 

  He receives three more answers in reply from the Aelfinn, so your thinking of the sixth answer technically.

 

 

It's been discussed in the past quite a bit at Theoryland forum, that  may be related to Mat losing an one his eyes during a future attempt to save Moiraine and yes, maybe Lanfear too from the Eelfinn's realm.

 

  ((Note Mat does think about Lanfear being with Moiraine, both prisoners of the Eelfinn in tGS book. This tGS scene is a setup, I believe to shock readers about Lanfear real identity, location-- it's not Cyndane.)) 

 

 

On the other hand, for a long-time I have been curious about Mat's first question to the Aelfinn and their answer.:

 

Source: The Shadow Rising book - Chapter 15 "Into the Doorway" - Mat pov within the Aelfinn realm, via the twisted doorway in the Stone of Tear

 

If Mat had thought his skin crawled before, now he was sure it was writhing. He made himself go closer. Carefully—careful to say nothing that even sounded like a question—he laid the situation before them. The Whitecloaks, certainly in his home village, surely hunting friends of his, maybe hunting him. One of his friends going to face the Whitecloaks, another not. His family, not likely in danger, but with the bloody Children of the bloody Light around . . . A ta’veren pulling at him so he could hardly move. He saw no reason to give names, or mention that Rand was the Dragon Reborn. His first question—and the other two, for that matter—he had worked out before going down to the Great Hold. “Should I go home to help my people?” he asked finally.

 

Three sets of slitted eyes lifted from him—reluctantly, it seemed—and studied the air above his head. Finally the woman on the left said, “You must go to Rhuidean.”

 

 

  I have wondered how the Aelfinn have interpreted this first question. Are Mat's "people" under the Aelfinn's understanding the Jenn Aiel, now dead in Rhuidean?? Not as who Mat believed his People were, Two Rivers folk?

 

  There is just enough vagueness in across the story, for Mat's people to be all the descendants of the Da'Shain Aiel dated back to the Breaking Era: Aiel, Sea Folk, Tinkers, Amayar, and others in Seanchan, Sharan too.  Neither is there proof to discount this possibility, sigh. I've tried to disprove this idea, for years, but it comes up empty too.  It's at an impasse.     

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

  Valan Luca role in the future of the series, has not been wide discussed at Theoryland, RAFO, nor here at Dragonmount forums. I've looked for it, and most forum lurkers, writers seems to loath or dislike the character of Valan Luca, if he is discussed at all.     

 

 

    Valan Luca entering the Tower of Ghenjei with Mat, Thom to attempt to save Moiraine from the Eelfinn's realm is one possibility, for this currently unnoticed thing in Book 4-6.  Valan Luca entered the series in tFoH, and has reappeared multiple times. A historical Luca, appeared also in tSR book.  He's a major character, who I think has been misunderstood and misjudged because of Nynaeve, Mat separate point of views. 

 

    The character of Noal on the other hand is a danger man, according to Furyk Karede pov in KoD. Besides being the subject of compulsion by Ishamael years ago.  Noal disappeared for a time just before the Circus left Ebou Dar, and Mat never did learn where Noal went. Noal's whole story and is character's motivations are fishy.   

[Owayn The Traveller]

Also when Mat finds out there seanchan at the circus in crossroads of twilight Noal is with and mat tells hm to telll julian sandar I think. Yet Mat goes elsewher first and stills ends up there before Noal. Also what is his complusion from Ishy. I like Noal as a character but dont trust him and think he'll do something bad.

 

Okay remember Ingtar and how he redemmed himself, what happens if a good guy like sya, Jain Fairstrider who has done good deeds all his life and then does one bad deed before he dies does that nulify all the good prior like Ingtars good deed redeems him.

 

Also could the use of need be the thing. When does it first get used and it has popped up in practically every book since 4 and its not discussed that much that I can see. Maybe what happens becuse of it alrite but it itself isn't. Its seems like such a small thing though but thats my two bits/cent/bob.

[morkhon]

When did we start hearing about peoples' ability to basically ignore the heat and extreme cold? It seems like I've been seeing a lot of references to it in books 5 and 6 especially, and emphasis on the fact that it has nothing to do with the One Power.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Wsn't that fairly early in the books. I could be wrong but doesn't Moraine tell Eggy early .

[mossman87]

 

   Valan Luca role in the future of the series, has not been wide discussed at Theoryland, RAFO, nor here at Dragonmount forums. I've looked for it, and most forum lurkers, writers seems to loath or dislike the character of Valan Luca, if he is discussed at all.     

 

 

    Valan Luca entering the Tower of Ghenjei with Mat, Thom to attempt to save Moiraine from the Eelfinn's realm is one possibility, for this currently unnoticed thing in Book 4-6.  Valan Luca entered the series in tFoH, and has reappeared multiple times. A historical Luca, appeared also in tSR book.  He's a major character, who I think has been misunderstood and misjudged because of Nynaeve, Mat separate point of views. 

 

    The character of Noal on the other hand is a danger man, according to Furyk Karede pov in KoD. Besides being the subject of compulsion by Ishamael years ago.  Noal disappeared for a time just before the Circus left Ebou Dar, and Mat never did learn where Noal went. Noal's whole story and is character's motivations are fishy.   

 

But what sort of puzzle and what hidden thing did Luca present that should have been solved at the time it was brought up?  I guess you could answer, "What is his role?" but then absolutely anything could be open.

 

Just to bring this back since I feel a lot of people never saw these:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,49575.msg1337654.html#msg1337654

There is a very small detail in books 4-6, not sure which one that will end up playing a huge role in Towers of Midnight (might end up being in A Memory of Light, but pretty sure he said Towers of Midnight). This is on a scale of [huge Mistborn spoiler, highlight to read] Vin's earring in Mistborn, with how that was such a minor detail touched on in book one, and ended up being the key detail that saved the day in the end. That kind of small detail.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2566

Question: You had a quote that we all talked about just recently, that there is a small detail with this secret thing. There were two quotes we put together where you told somebody from Chicago where you say this detail first comes out between books 4-6. Is that verified?

Answer: It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

Question: But that’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned?

Answer: It’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned. It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get. […] I mean, it’s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing…and you guys are very good at finding things and I’m not going to say whether you hit it or not.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2596

I asked a follow up question about the big clue in books 4-6, asking if the clue became more relevant due to events in the later books, and he said that it didn't, and that it's something we should have picked up on when it appeared. He also issued a caveat (that is basically common sense) that it is possible someone discussed this issue at some point on one of the boards and that he didn't see that, but that he has never seen it raised in his lurkings, and that this issue is more important than who killed you-know-who.

 

I don't see how Luca fits that at all.

[Sharaman]

When did we start hearing about peoples' ability to basically ignore the heat and extreme cold? It seems like I've been seeing a lot of references to it in books 5 and 6 especially, and emphasis on the fact that it has nothing to do with the One Power.

 

Remarked from Book I itself, I think. But Siuan retains some of the ability after she's stilled in TFoH.

And sometimes channelers sweat - like Joline in KoD when she's fighting.

[dumont76]

Could the shocklance play a role?  What if some of that ancient technology (which intrigues me as to what exactly the Age of Legends encompassed, what with flying machines and other modes of transport...) is discovered and plays a role in the Last Battle?  I know the Seanchan have been detailed too much to be the BUT, but what if it's something obscure that they have or a role hinted at that hasn't been fleshed out?

[DemandredFO]

Off topic but I've always wondered if they had shuttles in the AOL and if there are madmen on lots of other planets

[lillcheese]

IIRC, they could Travel to other planets in our solar system. Trying to get to another solar system would be too difficult, though theoretically possible.

 

Wherever the Ogier came from, I don't think they got here by Traveling. Maybe that's the BUT.  When do we first hear about the Book of Translation?

[Sharaman]

IIRC, they could Travel to other planets in our solar system. Trying to get to another solar system would be too difficult, though theoretically possible.

 

Wherever the Ogier came from, I don't think they got here by Traveling. Maybe that's the BUT.  When do we first hear about the Book of Translation?

 

Nope - KoD - much too late.

 

[dumont76]

Off topic but I've always wondered if they had shuttles in the AOL and if there are madmen on lots of other planets

 

Yeah, me too.  What were jo-cars, jumpers etc...?  Seems like "modern" technology existed (probably Power fueled) and then after the Breaking it all regressed.  Didn't mean to stay off-topic, but I wanted to see if anyone else thought the shocklance or similar "tech" might be the BUT.

[aunt_pol]

 

Lads, my money's on either of these two, really: the fat man angreal, or the crystal throne (formerly in Rhuidean, now languishing in a warehouse somewhere in Cairhien).

 

I'm still... meh... about the angreal, though, cos odds on Taim has it. So either he beats the divils out of Rand with it, or he knows more about its uses and does somethin fun with it. And I don't want him to have any more stuff up his sleeve.

 

[On Taim, I think his remarks about "so-called Aiel" essentially constitute a flashing neon sign over his head, proclaiming him to be an AOLer. Nobody from the current era would have the knowledge, never mind the neck, to talk about them like that. And it just doesn't ring true that he would imitate one of the Chosen that far. It nearly defeats the man to bow his head to Rand: he ain't goin bootlicker for anyone. He could prob obey, but not fawn.]

 

I'm gonna go with the big chair. I've raised it here before, prob couple hundred posts ago, and others have too.

(It's not going to be anything to the Binding Chair in Tar Valon - that's for binding criminals in, not a throne for inspiring awe.) 

 

It really would be a major thing if it's twin to the Crystal Throne in Seandar, which seems to imbue the bum that's on it with plenty of awe-someness.

 

It'd be some land for lil' miss Empress if Rand was sat in that for their next chit chat. Wouldn't matter if he subsequently got down and knelt to her... she'd always know she knelt to him first. Remember Moiraine's advice to him, on the way back from the Waste? To make sure people first saw him as a king: that even if he stepped down from a throne to behave like a boor, or some such, they'd always remember that he did step down from a throne.

(Not using that as evidence, or anything, just think it applies kind of neatly.)

 

Flame away...!

 

[mossman87]

I think with Avi going to Rhuidean, and being the only person who knows how to find the uses of ter'angreal, that the coincidences are glaring.  Not sure if it qualifies as The Big Thing (Only because I haven't bothered to look up the references yet, I'll get right on that  :)), but I'm almost positive we will be seeing it.

 

Just like even if the fat man isn't The Big Thing, I do believe we'll be seeing it in the story at some point.

[porus]

 

It'd be some land for lil' miss Empress if Rand was sat in that for their next chit chat. Wouldn't matter if he subsequently got down and knelt to her... she'd always know she knelt to him first. Remember Moiraine's advice to him, on the way back from the Waste? To make sure people first saw him as a king: that even if he stepped down from a throne to behave like a boor, or some such, they'd always remember that he did step down from a throne.

(Not using that as evidence, or anything, just think it applies kind of neatly.)

 

Flame away...!

 

 

That would be hilarious..ForTUONa seeing Rand in what she thinks is "her" chair. As far as she knows there is only one crystal throne. She would probably curl up and die on the spot.

 

I think with Avi going to Rhuidean, and being the only person who knows how to find the uses of ter'angreal, that the coincidences are glaring.  Not sure if it qualifies as The Big Thing (Only because I haven't bothered to look up the references yet, I'll get right on that  :)), but I'm almost positive we will be seeing it.

 

Just like even if the fat man isn't The Big Thing, I do believe we'll be seeing it in the story at some point.

 

I don't think Avi's trip to Rhuidean can be The Big Thing because she does not begin this journey until TGS. However, I agree that there is going to be some awesomeness come from her trip. She's going to find something amazing--there has been too much buildup of her ter'angreal identification ability for this opportunity to go to waste. The only question is, what is she going to find? Will be be something the she uses, or something she gives to Rand? Perhaps she will find that elusive sa'angreal that Lanfear alludes to. Or a shock-lance lol.

[mossman87]

I don't think Avi's trip to Rhuidean can be The Big Thing because she does not begin this journey until TGS. However, I agree that there is going to be some awesomeness come from her trip. She's going to find something amazing--there has been too much buildup of her ter'angreal identification ability for this opportunity to go to waste. The only question is, what is she going to find? Will be be something the she uses, or something she gives to Rand? Perhaps she will find that elusive sa'angreal that Lanfear alludes to. Or a shock-lance lol.

 

I was talking about her finding the binding chair there somehow.  It is still in Rhuidean right?  I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any references in the Encyclopedia.

[JediMindTrick]

First post but I've been a semi occasional lurker for years.   Not long after hearing what Brandon said about the big thing and Vin's earring I began rereading, actually relistening, to the whole series and I'm now into book IV, The Shadow Rising.  As I listen to the book I've been trying, like probably everyone, to figure out what it could be and I wanted to throw out this theory.  I'm basing very much on the Vin earring thing in that its got to be something we all just read, took for granted, and mostly forgot about.  It could come up again but we would always pass it off as being just window dressing, much like we thought of Vin's earring.  

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before so apologies if it has. This thread is massive and I only scanned through about 15 pages.  

 

Anyway my thought is about Rand's true parents.   We first find out that they are Shaiel and Jindain in book IV.  We get a 2nd hand report that Jindain died when confronting someone who looked like Shaiel (Luc / Slayer maybe?).  And I believe its in the following books that we get more knowledge to confirm that Shaiel is actually Tigraine.  And his heritage does get mentioned a lot from here on out with the whole being the son of a maiden thing but its one of those window dressing things that we just take for granted.  What if one or both isn't really dead and is instead a captive of some Dark Ones minion?  A simple matter of compulsion could make the witnessing Aiel believe that Jindain died.   Learning that one or the other is alive could be a major plot point if Rand tries to rescue them.    

 

Or a second thought on the same line.  What if Jindain was actually Ishmael or one of the other Forsaken?

[FarShainMael]

I do hope not..

 

'Luke.' hiss.. 'I am your father.' hiss..

 

Too cheesy for words!

 

But I like the thought of Janduin being alive. I had some thoughts about him myself, earlier in this thread.