The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Ataxia]

Aha what about the possessions Olver has? He has a hawk feather and a red stone. Could the red stone be something? Ah well, now im getting crazy about tiny details.

[Mishmar]

Aha what about the possessions Olver has? He has a hawk feather and a red stone. Could the red stone be something? Ah well, now im getting crazy about tiny details.

 

Olver was introduced in book 6.  ;)

[aunt_pol]

Both 4 and 6 mention the Aiel Men running off to the Blight when its first found out they can channel. If I were on the Dark Side I'd have 13+13 waiting for them to create an Army of Dreadlords and keep them hidden deep in the Blight training Dark Spawn for the upcoming fun. Not sure that would be a Big Thing but you have to figure Demandred is enjoying their arrival and addition to his vast Army.

 

 

One major prob with that, though, surely they'd be mad as badgers in jig time? I wouldn't have imagined the DO is terribly generous with handing out the TP, or protection from the taint on the OP? Obv they'd love to make use of lots of channeling men, I just had assumed the craziness made them unusable.

[Dreamwalker]

Aha what about the possessions Olver has? He has a hawk feather and a red stone. Could the red stone be something? Ah well, now im getting crazy about tiny details.

 

I think mentioning his possessions is more to compare him to the kid side of Mat - LoC Ch. 22 Mat is mentioned as having colored stones and an eagle feather, then later in this same chapter is where Olver is showing Mat his little collection of stuff, and I think this was mostly a cute way to show him identifying with the kid because this is where he sort of adopts him.

[Bobbun]

This might be an easy one to shoot down, and it seems likely it has been suggested before, but it occurred to me while I was reading the Wikipedia entry for Odin.  If you don't know much about Norse mythology (which I don't), that article is definitely an eye opener.  I knew Mat was based on Odin, but I didn't realize just how much similarity there truly is.

 

Anyway, Mat has this spear that he got through the doorway in Rhuidean where snakefolk grant three wishes.  Odin is associated with a spear, of course (that never misses!), but I've always thought it odd that when you do the accounting for Mat's encounter, you come up with more than three things.  In Rhuidean, he seems to have gained four things...  Protection from Aes Sedai in the form of the foxhead medallion, holes in his memory filled with dead men's memories, a return to his own world, and a spear.  Four things, and the last all the more odd because it doesn't appear to have been wished for.  So somehow Mat cheated.  But did he really?

 

I suggest that he really only got three things in Rhuidean and that Mat's spear may have a misunderstood function that is "the big unnoticed thing".  Mat's spear is engraved with two ravens and the following text:  "Thus is our treaty written; thus is agreement made.  Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades.  What was asked is given.  The price is paid."  The words "thought" and "memory" are particularly interesting for two reasons.  The first of these reasons is that they mention one of the items Mat received:  memories.  The second has to do with Odin and the ravens engraved on the spear.  Odin is associated with two ravens, just like what's engraved on the spear.  What are their names?  To translate the Old Norse names into English, their names are "Thought" and "Memory" and for Odin they serve the role of information gatherers.  To me this suggests the possibility that Mat's memories are, in fact, connected to the ravens and thus to the spear.  If the spear and the memories are linked, then Mat really did only receive three things in Rhuidean, and they were all linked to his wishes.  If he loses the spear he may also lose the memories much as he would lose his protection from Aes Sedai if he were to lose his medallion--a potentially very significant plot point.

 

[Dreamwalker]

This might be an easy one to shoot down, and it seems likely it has been suggested before, but it occurred to me while I was reading the Wikipedia entry for Odin.  If you don't know much about Norse mythology (which I don't), that article is definitely an eye opener.  I knew Mat was based on Odin, but I didn't realize just how much similarity there truly is.

 

Anyway, Mat has this spear that he got through the doorway in Rhuidean where snakefolk grant three wishes.  Odin is associated with a spear, of course (that never misses!), but I've always thought it odd that when you do the accounting for Mat's encounter, you come up with more than three things.  In Rhuidean, he seems to have gained four things...  Protection from Aes Sedai in the form of the foxhead medallion, holes in his memory filled with dead men's memories, a return to his own world, and a spear.  Four things, and the last all the more odd because it doesn't appear to have been wished for.  So somehow Mat cheated.  But did he really?

 

I suggest that he really only got three things in Rhuidean and that Mat's spear may have a misunderstood function that is "the big unnoticed thing".  Mat's spear is engraved with two ravens and the following text:  "Thus is our treaty written; thus is agreement made.  Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades.  What was asked is given.  The price is paid."  The words "thought" and "memory" are particularly interesting for two reasons.  The first of these reasons is that they mention one of the items Mat received:  memories.  The second has to do with Odin and the ravens engraved on the spear.  Odin is associated with two ravens, just like what's engraved on the spear.  What are their names?  To translate the Old Norse names into English, their names are "Thought" and "Memory" and for Odin they serve the role of information gatherers.  To me this suggests the possibility that Mat's memories are, in fact, connected to the ravens and thus to the spear.  If the spear and the memories are linked, then Mat really did only receive three things in Rhuidean, and they were all linked to his wishes.  If he loses the spear he may also lose the memories much as he would lose his protection from Aes Sedai if he were to lose his medallion--a potentially very significant plot point.

 

 

Very interesting and an angle to this theory I haven't seen before, but unfortunately Mat's ashandarei was on the list of things that it's not that you can find earlier in this thread (do a search for "theorylander discussion" on this thread and you'll find it).

 

I still put forth my admittedly wacko theory that Lanfear put a Finder or something on Mat's hat when she sold it to him disguised as Keille.  :D

[Sharaman]

I prefer to believe that the hat is a powerful angreal. Its effect is masked because it's always close to the foxhead. But once Cyndane gets her hands on it again, she'll be back to her glory days as the AoL's greatest lady channeler.

 

[dumont76]

Two things that happened in tSR that might be interesting and were not mentioned:

 

1. Hopper does not see Birggeta (sp?). Why?

 

2. Fain's dreams are haunted by Slayer but he still manages to stay away and/or rebuff Slayer.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I think the recently mentioned "theoryland discussion" negates anything related to Fain at all.  Slayer I think is only untouchable in relation to Two Rivers and ToG though.  Hopper seems poised to play a bigger role yet, and hopefully when I get into my re-read of 4 - 6 I'll have better supporting knowledge refreshed...I'm almost done with The Dragon Reborn now.

[saidarisnowtainted]

i'm sure it was brought up already -- LTT's voice

 

I checked the theoryland blacklist and didnt see it there

 

but i was re-reading TGS and something caught my attention in the chapter where Rand is being tortured by Semmy--

 

Rand is in pain and thinks about how LTT can deal with any pain because he is so tortured already.

 

Rand thinks back to Dumai's Well's recalling the first time LTT's voice spoke to him while he was being tortured.

 

I dont have TGS with me but in this chapter i recall something by Rand indicating that he created LTT to deal with the pain.  something like that.

 

this seems like a hint thrown in by BS to hint back on the big hint--that is, if this is the big unnoticed thing.

 

but if this is the big unnoticed thing--i still dont understand exactly what IT is.

 

Rand splits LTT off in his head to deal with pain and LTT then starts talking to him.

 

What are/were the ramifications that made/make this significant?

 

And in Veins of Gold, Rand appears to unify himself with LTT.

[alligator]

surely they'd be mad as badgers in jig time?

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Fab phraseology there!

Even though I can't honestly say I know what 'jig time' is.  :P

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Rather quickly. Like dancing a jig.  8)

[Sharaman]

umm - look up jig a jig. In this context it means brocks in mating season.

 

[aunt_pol]

 

 

Eeeuuuwww!! Not what I meant, really! More to do with the dancin'! And what are brocks, anyhoo?

[Sharaman]

Me and me dirty mind!

Brock = badger (common nick) and jig -jig ah well. 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jig-jig

and

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=8oj&q=brock+badger+&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

 

[Shadow Rider]

Could this thing be about Rhuidean? I've wondered about Who Rand is going to give Rhuidean to...the Aiel?...or...maybe the Traveling people as a reward for keeping the way of the leaf....do you think that could be it? :-\

[dumont76]

Could this thing be about Rhuidean? I've wondered about Who Rand is going to give Rhuidean to...the Aiel?...or...maybe the Traveling people as a reward for keeping the way of the leaf....do you think that could be it? :-\

 

Intersting thought, and the "theoryland" list doesn't rule out Rhuidean as a whole, just certain connected events.  This could be an interesting development, what with the Tuatha'an and Aiel being so different yet possibly from the same ancestry?  (I think that has been discussed in some thread(s) on DM before) Although, will Rhuidean be a place anyone will want to have?  Unless the Tinkers discover "the song" there... ???, therefore "renewing" it...interesting speculation!

[GrnEyedDvl]

Interesting thread. I didnt read all of it but I did read quite a bit, and I have a few thoughts. They might have been mentioned already...

 

1. Obviously with Galad now leading the Whitecloaks, he is going to be a bigger character instead of a side story. I suspect, and most will probably agree, that the Whitecloaks under Galad's leadership will at some point join the Last Battle with Rand. However I suspect a duel between Shaidar Haran and Galad, with Galad possibly dying. At this point we are going to learn a bit more about Tigraine which could be a surprise.

 

2. Herid Fel, the old man that said Min was "too pretty" when he asked Rand to come and see him regarding his question about sealing the bore. Min kept the note from Fel, and occasionally reads it.

 

3. Asmodean, that is definitely not resolved. Something is going to happen there.

 

 

My bets are on #2.

 

[DemandredFO]

good thing you said #2 because there's a loooong(I haven't looked in a while)thread in the Structured forums on who killed Asmodean.

[deathgate]

i'm sure it was brought up already -- LTT's voice

 

 

I sort of brought it up in the context of being an almost identical thing to Vin's voice in Mistborn. What escapes me is what it could be. DO, Moridin? God? It would also be kind of tacky since it is so close to BS's own trilogy.

[Shadow Rider]

Could this thing be about Rhuidean? I've wondered about Who Rand is going to give Rhuidean to...the Aiel?...or...maybe the Traveling people as a reward for keeping the way of the leaf....do you think that could be it? :-\

 

Intersting thought, and the "theoryland" list doesn't rule out Rhuidean as a whole, just certain connected events.  This could be an interesting development, what with the Tuatha'an and Aiel being so different yet possibly from the same ancestry?  (I think that has been discussed in some thread(s) on DM before) Although, will Rhuidean be a place anyone will want to have?  Unless the Tinkers discover "the song" there... ???, therefore "renewing" it...interesting speculation!

 

 

Before they left Rhuidean Aiel traders were set to work by rand to repair Rhuidean and instructions given by Rand to the Traders to ask the Ogers to come and Finnish Rhuidean ...The next we here of Rhuidean it may Rival even Tarvalon.

[papertiger]

I don't know if the Tuath'an deserve to be given Rhuidean. Sure, they held to the Way Of The Leaf but so did the Jenn and unlike the Jenn, the Traveling People ditched the ter'angreal they were given to protect by the Aes Sedai. That and the fact that they steal recruit outsiders to their cause means the blood's worn thin in most of those caravans. Unless there's like a Two Rivers caravan, where the blood runs strong and the Song can be found.

 

This has probably been mentioned by now, but Aram's death may come back to haunt Perrin, especially if Raen comes out as Top Seeker in the Tinker convention on the outskirts of Ebou Dar. If he's the head of all the Traveling People and then explains how Perrin corrupted his grandson, there might be problems with cleansing the Blight with the Song, which may be related to Perrin through a viewing of Min's:

 

"...Wolf, broken crown, trees flowering all around him..." [EOTW, Ch. 15, Strangers and Friends, pg. 181]

 

Aram's corruption has fit the timeline Sanderson set out and the Tuath'an are one of the first types of people that Perrin meets. Jordan loves character conservation and ten-book foreshadowing so this may be it.

 

Grazie to WOTFAQ for the citation. It has a wonderful compilation of Egwene's dreams or Min's viewings.

[Shadow Rider]

I don't know if the Tuath'an deserve to be given Rhuidean. Sure, they held to the Way Of The Leaf but so did the Jenn and unlike the Jenn, the Traveling People ditched the ter'angreal they were given to protect by the Aes Sedai. That and the fact that they steal recruit outsiders to their cause means the blood's worn thin in most of those caravans. Unless there's like a Two Rivers caravan, where the blood runs strong and the Song can be found.

 

 

 

 

The ter'angreal the Tuath'aan "ditched" weren't important other than to keep them away from Male Aes Sedai...they were not important ....it was the Aiel themselves The Da'shain Aiel that was the treasure...the Aes Sedai told them to keep traveling keep moving and to find a safe place....and to keep the way of the leaf....

this is important I think because of the song.....it was the Aiel in the Three fold land that failed the Aes Sedai by picking up weapons and killing.

[Starnite]

Just finished listening to books 4-6 again, and something I noticed this time through...

 

 Who is Min?  We know she was raised by Aunts in the mines when her parents were killed, but no mention of what/who her parents were.  Also, why dies Faile recognise her when they first meet?  And how does she relate to the broken crown.....?

 

Also I forget where, Lanfear mentioned that colendar (however you spell it) was one of the most powerful sah-angreal that a man could use, with only 2 more powerful than it.

 

And just for fun, Mat's dragons on Rand's steam wagons =steam tanks!

 

Just some thoughts I came up with

[Shadow Rider]

Has The swirling colors been discussed in this thead?....when the three tavern think of one another...

Mat saw Rand sitting with his head down and mumbling to himself...I was thinking if they could call one another in some way....they can talk to each other....a very Valuable thing to have for the coming battle.

[Sharaman]

The swirling colours only started happening much later. Not until Book IX at least.