The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Vermillion]

What about the Seals?

Not their breaking but their weakening, it was in TFoH when Moiraine has proved it.

 

I think that has been talked about a lot though.  We know the True Power can destroy cuendillar and we assume that DO is TP(not toliet tissue) that the DO will break free.

 

 

[Ashamandragoran]

ok, here is a shot in the dark, but what if the big thing is Faith or Religion?

 

Harid Fel says in his note in LOC: "Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

The "clear rubble" part has been analyzed to death but what of "Belief"?

 

I'm not a man of religion myself, but its interesting how everybody acknowledges the existance of the Creator and the Dark One in Randland. But while they all acknowledge the Creator, there is no religion system around him. Church of the Creator? has a nice ring to it : ;D

 

Not sure if there is anything in TSR regarding a Faith and believing

 

 

[Vermillion]

I think the order and belief give strength applies to Rand.  Rand tries to be hard to gain strength and breaks and becomes Ishy(maybe literally happening as well).  He sees the pattern as a pointless and never ending.  But he finds belief in love and gained back his humanity.  It also was hurting the land and people to be so cold because the Dragon is one with the land or something like that.  No food = bad for final battle.

 

Essentially the DO is chaos and the Creator is Order and the wheel balances it.  You have Rand destroying order and the DO was helping it along because it seems to be what he does.  Rand had to destroy order that was complacent and self severing to create and order that will be prepared for the final battle.  Essentially creating Order will give him strength as well.

[water_seeker]

ok, here is a shot in the dark, but what if the big thing is Faith or Religion?

 

Harid Fel says in his note in LOC: "Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

The "clear rubble" part has been analyzed to death but what of "Belief"?

 

I'm not a man of religion myself, but its interesting how everybody acknowledges the existance of the Creator and the Dark One in Randland. But while they all acknowledge the Creator, there is no religion system around him. Church of the Creator? has a nice ring to it : ;D

 

Not sure if there is anything in TSR regarding a Faith and believing

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure holding a revival would be pointless this far in the story.

 

I'm still doing my book 4-6 reread, but I'm leaning towards the "need" item from the tower that the wonder girls ignored.

[Ashamandragoran]

I think the order and belief give strength applies to Rand.  Rand tries to be hard to gain strength and breaks and becomes Ishy(maybe literally happening as well).  He sees the pattern as a pointless and never ending.  But he finds belief in love and gained back his humanity.  It also was hurting the land and people to be so cold because the Dragon is one with the land or something like that.  No food = bad for final battle.

I think after Veins of Gold we all understand Rand's need to believe in himself and in fighting. But I was talking about believing in a higher power, i.e. the Creator

 

Essentially the DO is chaos and the Creator is Order and the wheel balances it.  You have Rand destroying order and the DO was helping it along because it seems to be what he does.  Rand had to destroy order that was complacent and self severing to create and order that will be prepared for the final battle.  Essentially creating Order will give him strength as well.

I never really talked about the order bit, I thought that was was self-explanatory

 

[Vermillion]

I think the order and belief give strength applies to Rand.  Rand tries to be hard to gain strength and breaks and becomes Ishy(maybe literally happening as well).  He sees the pattern as a pointless and never ending.  But he finds belief in love and gained back his humanity.  It also was hurting the land and people to be so cold because the Dragon is one with the land or something like that.  No food = bad for final battle.

I think after Veins of Gold we all understand Rand's need to believe in himself and in fighting. But I was talking about believing in a higher power, i.e. the Creator

 

Essentially the DO is chaos and the Creator is Order and the wheel balances it.  You have Rand destroying order and the DO was helping it along because it seems to be what he does.  Rand had to destroy order that was complacent and self severing to create and order that will be prepared for the final battle.  Essentially creating Order will give him strength as well.

 

 

I never really talked about the order bit, I thought that was was self-explanatory

 

 

I have yet to meet a person in Randland that didn't believe in the creator.  It's accepted as fact that the Creator exist so there is no need for faith.  In Randland the creator doesn't interfere.  He just left a self correcting wheel to make sure the DO doesn't get out of hand.  He demands nothing in return nor does he directly help therefore there is no need for worship.

[Worm]

Does anyone know why Slayer killed Rand's real father?

In book 4 when one of the wise ones is telling Rand about his parents they say that his mother died in childbirth and his father, mad from grief went into the Blight with a group of his men to look for death. The people who went with Rand's father came back saying that a man who looked like Tigraine (Luc) had attacked Rand's dad and he hadn't put up a fight.

 

I doubt this is the fact that has been missed because it is never brought up again in any of the books but it is odd. It confuses me, can anyone explain how Slayer knew who Rand's dad was and why Slayer (Widely believed to be the DO's personal assassin) would be used on a group of Aiel?

[Little Miss]

Does anyone know why Slayer killed Rand's real father?

In book 4 when one of the wise ones is telling Rand about his parents they say that his mother died in childbirth and his father, mad from grief went into the Blight with a group of his men to look for death. The people who went with Rand's father came back saying that a man who looked like Tigraine (Luc) had attacked Rand's dad and he hadn't put up a fight.

 

I doubt this is the fact that has been missed because it is never brought up again in any of the books but it is odd. It confuses me, can anyone explain how Slayer knew who Rand's dad was and why Slayer (Widely believed to be the DO's personal assassin) would be used on a group of Aiel?

 

I don't really know if Slayer DID know that he was killing Rand's father specifically.. How would Slayer know such a thing? Although it would be rather intersting if that's what Gitara Moroso's fortelling ment to happen when she sent Luc there... :\  But what purpose in the pattern would it serve for Rand to not have a real father?

 

[Knobs Mahoney]

Does anyone know why Slayer killed Rand's real father?

In book 4 when one of the wise ones is telling Rand about his parents they say that his mother died in childbirth and his father, mad from grief went into the Blight with a group of his men to look for death. The people who went with Rand's father came back saying that a man who looked like Tigraine (Luc) had attacked Rand's dad and he hadn't put up a fight.

 

I doubt this is the fact that has been missed because it is never brought up again in any of the books but it is odd. It confuses me, can anyone explain how Slayer knew who Rand's dad was and why Slayer (Widely believed to be the DO's personal assassin) would be used on a group of Aiel?

 

I don't really know if Slayer DID know that he was killing Rand's father specifically.. How would Slayer know such a thing? Although it would be rather intersting if that's what Gitara Moroso's fortelling ment to happen when she sent Luc there... :\  But what purpose in the pattern would it serve for Rand to not have a real father?

 

 

Also, this isn't the only mention or time that the relationship is alluded to. During Rand's battle with the renegade Ashamen in Far Madding there is a scene where Slayer is poking around and reflects about how he'd like to kill "his nephew". He also attempts to kill Rand and Min only to discover that he had killed the wrong people. I'm not sure this meets the criteria BS set forth for the Great Unnoticed Thing, but it's certainly intriguing.

[somathus]

Does anyone know why Slayer killed Rand's real father?

In book 4 when one of the wise ones is telling Rand about his parents they say that his mother died in childbirth and his father, mad from grief went into the Blight with a group of his men to look for death. The people who went with Rand's father came back saying that a man who looked like Tigraine (Luc) had attacked Rand's dad and he hadn't put up a fight.

 

I doubt this is the fact that has been missed because it is never brought up again in any of the books but it is odd. It confuses me, can anyone explain how Slayer knew who Rand's dad was and why Slayer (Widely believed to be the DO's personal assassin) would be used on a group of Aiel?

 

I don't really know if Slayer DID know that he was killing Rand's father specifically.. How would Slayer know such a thing? Although it would be rather intersting if that's what Gitara Moroso's fortelling ment to happen when she sent Luc there... :\  But what purpose in the pattern would it serve for Rand to not have a real father?

 

 

Maybe to assure that he would be abandoned on Dragonmount.

[Crael123]

Does anyone know why Slayer killed Rand's real father?

In book 4 when one of the wise ones is telling Rand about his parents they say that his mother died in childbirth and his father, mad from grief went into the Blight with a group of his men to look for death. The people who went with Rand's father came back saying that a man who looked like Tigraine (Luc) had attacked Rand's dad and he hadn't put up a fight.

 

I doubt this is the fact that has been missed because it is never brought up again in any of the books but it is odd. It confuses me, can anyone explain how Slayer knew who Rand's dad was and why Slayer (Widely believed to be the DO's personal assassin) would be used on a group of Aiel?

 

Ladies and gentleman, we have an answer. this is it. this is what we have been searching for for 85 pages of thread!

[Little Miss]

 

Ahh... I do believe your right Knobs Mahoney ^^ That's a rather interesting point... Now are they both in books 4 and 6? I'm on chapter 29 in LOC so I haven't seen that seen yet.... BUT if it does happen in this book I think we may be on to something. <3

 

Somathus - perhaps... but I feel that if Rand's father felt that he had a resposibility to the child why did he go on a kinda known suicide trip? (not that he was expecting to meet Slayer.. just the normal Trollocs and myydrral and Worms and Light knows what else..)

[Crael123]

Wow. good job worm. you should be proud of yourself ;D

[mordething]

The descriptions are too exact for this to be coincidence.  RJ doesn't work like that.

 

I suppose we should just ignore the fact that RJ would describe 2/3 of the women in the book the same exact way?

 

I do like your idea, but substantively it means little, since we see corruption of AoL symbols and titles in the contemporary world.  This may be nothing more than that.  Also, there has been discussion in the past as to whether Ogier would fight in TG or even before.  We see Lioal fighting in TSR for the first time, so a build up to that same thing happening with a few more Ogier is unlikely to be a major event.  Further, the joining of the Seanchan and Randland forces, Ogier or Human, is not exactly a secret....it has to happen if the light is to win. 

 

Like others, I think the thing that makes the most sense, given the time left in the series, is the "need" sequence in T'A'R.

 

Some other possibilities (I'm just throwing them out there, apologies if they have already been talked about/beaten to death/ridiculed/etc): 

 

The Ways and the closing/creating of the ways (I believe 4-6 is when we first saw a Wayportal being permanently closed....is it a remanent of the DO's influence on the Saidin)

 

The presence of remanent Aes Sedai in Seanchan or other parts of the world (TFOH is when we see the paranoia surrounding free channelers in Seanchan, the question, of course, is why would Seanchan have a standing army looking for such people if most if not all are caught early enough.  What's more, why would they know that a channeler is marath'damane rather than a damane?  Aren't Suldam free to go where they want?  This is a question, i can't remember :P)

 

 

 

 

[Crael123]

The descriptions are too exact for this to be coincidence.  RJ doesn't work like that.

 

I suppose we should just ignore the fact that RJ would describe 2/3 of the women in the book the same exact way?

 

I do like your idea, but substantively it means little, since we see corruption of AoL symbols and titles in the contemporary world.  This may be nothing more than that.  Also, there has been discussion in the past as to whether Ogier would fight in TG or even before.  We see Lioal fighting in TSR for the first time, so a build up to that same thing happening with a few more Ogier is unlikely to be a major event.  Further, the joining of the Seanchan and Randland forces, Ogier or Human, is not exactly a secret....it has to happen if the light is to win.  

 

Like others, I think the thing that makes the most sense, given the time left in the series, is the "need" sequence in T'A'R.

 

Some other possibilities (I'm just throwing them out there, apologies if they have already been talked about/beaten to death/ridiculed/etc):  

 

The Ways and the closing/creating of the ways (I believe 4-6 is when we first saw a Wayportal being permanently closed....is it a remanent of the DO's influence on the Saidin)

 

The presence of remanent Aes Sedai in Seanchan or other parts of the world (TFOH is when we see the paranoia surrounding free channelers in Seanchan, the question, of course, is why would Seanchan have a standing army looking for such people if most if not all are caught early enough.  What's more, why would they know that a channeler is marath'damane rather than a damane?  Aren't Suldam free to go where they want?  This is a question, i can't remember :P)

(/quote)

 

that brought up a question i was wondering.... if saidin was cleansed why arent the ways all cleaned up also? they  wer linked and if one got better i thought the other would too.... guess i was wrong, because i thought Fain would lose power or fade away because Shadar Logoth was gone.

 

sorry that was off topic

 

 

 

 

 

[Ashamandragoran]

 

Ahh... I do believe your right Knobs Mahoney ^^ That's a rather interesting point... Now are they both in books 4 and 6? I'm on chapter 29 in LOC so I haven't seen that seen yet.... BUT if it does happen in this book I think we may be on to something. <3

 

 

Well in LOC chapter 16, Dyelin tells Rand the story of Shaiel/Tigraine. She also tells him about Lord Luc (Rand's uncle) and how he went north because of Gitara's fortelling.

 

 

 

[Little Miss]

Crael- I've read through the series four times or so by now one would hope you'd never forget the harrowing experience our young heroes faced in tEotW. :D And I did just read a comment made by Sammy a couple chapters back in LOC that in AOL they used to be some thing different..Worms used to transform into something more but don't any more.. Scary O_o

 

 

Ashamandragoran - I've read the series  quite a few times through already ^^ just re-reading them before TGS <3 I just didn't member that little detail. :)

 

{edit} Adress the wrong person

[Ashamandragoran]

Little Moss - it's amazing that no matter how many times you reread a book in the series, you'll always notice some new detail every time

 

I actually like the whole Slayer/Luc knowing Rand is his newphew as the Unoticed Thing. I'll be disappointed if he is not in TOM.

[Little Miss]

 

 

Sadly I don't really think that's what it is.. but it doesn't really seem to be getting a lot of 'press coverage' if you will... but you really never know with RJ.. lol even a butterfly could be suspicious <3

[Ashamandragoran]

it's funny because I always thought it was interesting "coincidence" that Luc killed Rand's father but I never really stopped to ask why that event actually took place.

 

it'd be nice to know more about Slayer's past

 

[Auld Manriva]

I'm not sure I'd make a big proclamation about Luc/Slayer, though it does seem likely that thread will be addressed in ToM. I seem to recall seeing at least one longish thread in these discussion boards about the character in the last three years that I've been here. Whether BS saw it or not, who knows.

 

But what's the big deal? It's been incredibly obvious since he/they appeared who they were and who they were related to. I mean I don't see it as a big thing. Maybe the big deal is just questions being answered *shrugs* and BS is laughing his hind end off watching this thread bloat up like a week old beached whale.

 

 

*I don't know that I'd find it that strange that Rand's father wouldn't fight back hard against his mates brother. Specially if they looked that much alike. Add to that, that if he was kinda jaw dropped and Slayer/Luc offed him easily as is likely the case it would certainly appear to the surviving Aiel that he didn't really fight back.

[Worm]

Just to clarify Janduin (Rand's dad) went off to the Blight with a group of young Aiel after Rand had been born on Dragonmount (by this time the Black Ajah already knew about the Dragon being reborn so it's possible Slayer did but still, why kill Rands dad, the Trollocs would have finished him eventually anyway.). By this time his wife (Tigraine) was dead and he was sunk in a pit of despair, when a man who looked so much like Tigraine appeared he didn't have the heart to fight back and Slayer drove a spear through his heart.

 

I doubt this is what BS meant but I'm currently on my re-read so if I find anything else odd I'll post it up here.

[Dolphineus]

I actually like the whole Slayer/Luc knowing Rand is his newphew as the Unoticed Thing. I'll be disappointed if he is not in TOM.

 

Isn't Lan also Slayer's newphew?

[Vulgir]

Isam, part of SLayer, is Lan's cousin

[cleantoe]

Why did Rand's father go to the Blight in a suicide mission? Probably because he discovered he could channel, and like all male Aiel, went straight north to the Blight to take his turn against the DO. No direct evidence of this, but it's been brought up what male Aiel do when they find out they can channel, and that's going to the Blight.