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The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)


Luckers

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Sorry to burst the Peach theory bubble but just so you know RJ has already talked about the peaches and said they ain't nothin' special.

 

 

Found on = http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_82hd463gcf'>http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_82hd463gcf

 

RJ's blog 5 October 2005 "YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS"

 

- For Child of Lir, peaches being poisonous in the world of The Wheel of Time is one of the things I did to make the world different.  Though peach pits do contain small amounts of cyanide, which was once manufactured through processing peach pits.  Several other fruits with pits, such as apricots, also have trace amounts of cyanide in the pits.  And almonds may be the first genetically engineered plant since humans bred the deadly, to humans, cyanide levels out them to make them edible for people.

 

 

 

and the other thing I wasn't really paying attention to was that BS said that this small thing was mentioned in both book 4 AND 6.... so that really throws out all me theories :'(

 

 

find it here = http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_82hd463gcf

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Sam Weller's Bookstore, Salt Lake City 2 November 2009 - Matt Hatch reporting

 

Question: You had a quote that we all talked about just recently, that there is a small detail with this secret thing. There were two quotes we put together where you told somebody from Chicago where you say this detail first comes out between books 4-6. Is that verified?

Answer: It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

Question: But that’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned?

Answer: It’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned. It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get. … I mean, it’s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing…and you guys are very good at finding things and I’m not going to say whether you hit it or not.

 

 

Now he really makes it sound like it could EITHER be in book 4 AND 6 or could start in either of those books... but I kinda think that there is more than one little detail out there...

 

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there are multiple hints...

 

later he said:

 

in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up

 

So, it can be in any three (4,5, or 6)....and it appears a few times....

 

not just book 4 and 6...that is taken out of context...

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there are multiple hints...

 

later he said:

 

in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up

 

So, it can be in any three (4,5, or 6)....and it appears a few times....

 

not just book 4 and 6...that is taken out of context...

 

 

So your saying that the quote I copied was wrong? I gave the website the quote was copied from.. I don't think it's wrong.. but sorta ment to be unclear and confusing perhaps... but it does clearly say 4 and 6...

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not that the quote is wrong...

 

Just that you have to put it together.

 

 

Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

 

Then he says:

It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up.

 

I think he meant Books 4 thru 6...

 

but who knows, maybe he is just devious like that and you are right...

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So I've been reading the books through again (currently on LOC Ch. 29 pg. 411) and the only thing that has me stuck on is a line said by Mazrim Taim when he first meets Rand and explains where he got a seal of the DO...

 

"In the last place you would expect, which I suppose is the first place to look for the others. A decaying little farm in Saldaea. I stopped for water and the farmer gave it to me. He was old, with no children or grandchildren to pass it on to, and he thought I was the Dragon Reborn. He claimed his family had guarded it more than two thousand years. Claimed they were kings and queens during the Trolloc years and nobles under Artur Hawkwing." [LOC; Chpt:2 New Arrival; pg.81]"

 

This story just seems to ring some bells to me... It sounds a lot like the story Fain told Turak when he brought him the Horn of Valere.

 

"Fain tried to make his voice convincing. Patient, like a worm boring from within. 'High Lord, my family has passed down a tradition, generation upon generation.  We Served the High King, Artur Paendrag Tanreall, and when he was murdered by the witches of Tar Valon, we did not abandon our oaths.  When others warred and tore apart  what Artur Hawkwing had made, we held to our swearing, and suffered for it, but held to it still.  This is out tradition, High Lord, handed father to son, mother to daughter, down all the years since the High King was murdered.'" [TGH Chpt:33 The Wheel Weaves; pg.495]

 

Now I know it's not word for word but it's a little too close for me and in my world coincidence and Robert Jordan can't even exist in the same thought together. :p  Now I know that it's slightly in a million years kind possible the RJ decided to use this excuse again but you never know... :\

 

 

 

{Edit} - This similarity may be a hint at what knowledge Taim has been recieving or a connection to Fain.. Other than it being similar.. I don't know what it can affect other than proving Taim is a DF.. maybe?

 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure this is considerd an on-going thing but what the hey :p

 

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But Fain made that up (right?), because he knew what and who the Seanchan were.

 

It fits with the Artur Hawkwing being deh man.

 

The farmer, he might actually believe it, and it might be true.

 

The Empire split and was remade so many time since his death. Only Andor has really been the "state" to survive, besides Tar Valon (and Mayene?).

 

 

Every nation, even the freaking Seanchan, go off of lineage of Hawkwing.

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Another thing that's never really been resolved is Cadsuane's "toothless wilder" in the Black Hills. There was a name but I gave away the early books years ago. This is where Cadsuane acquired her hair ornaments. Who was this wilder and how did she get her hands on these objects of the power when the White Tower have for centuries considered all such objects to be the property of the Tower and I assume enforced this quite harshly given what we know of Aes Sedai?
The wilder's name was Norla, and the AS don't seem very militant about getting their hands on ter'angreal in the possession of others. Plus, the Black Hills are rather off the beaten track. I doubt many AS just happen to be wandering by, so they probably don't know.

 

Maybe there could be more Hawkwing loyalists hidden in this area?
To take the number up to one.

 

Cadsuane first showed up in book 7 (CoS I think, I always get 7-8 mixed up). It was right after he returned from Dumai's Wells. But there were a couple of mentions of a group of unidentified Aes Sedai in Caemlyn. (at the Silver Swan Inn maybe?) I always figured that was Cadsuane and her group. Sanderson's remarks might've been deliberately vague or they might've been vague because he really wasn't sure when this first appeared. I don't think its unthinkable that it might've appeared earlier and it just didn't occur to him and then he didn't bother to clear it up.
The AS at the Silver Swan are still there as of KoD. There is no indication of Cadsuane having been there, or the sisters there being tied to her.
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In The Shadow Rising when Rand goes thru the glass columns in Rhuidian he views the history of the Aiel thru his ancestors eyes.  One of the viewings, from the Age of Legends or the War of Power shows a scene of Aiel and Ogier and Nym singing to a field, and there is a soldier watching.  

 

From The Shadow Rising

"It was then that he saw the soldier, only a few steps away, watching them.  He had left his schocklance and fancloth battle cape somewhere, but he still wore his helmet, like some monstrous insect's head. its mandibles hiding his face though his black shockvisor was raised."

 

From The Great Hunt

"The first to climb up was one of the armored men, and Domon saw immediately why some of the villager claimed the Seanchan themselves were monsters.  The helmet looked very much like some monstrous insect's head, with thin red plumes like feelers;  the wearer seemed to be peering out through mandibles."

I'm sure I am not the first to see this connection, but the similarity between the Seanchan and War of Power soldiers is first brought to light in book 4.  It is not just a similarity either, the descriptions are exact.  Like some monstrous insect's head.  Word for word.  Even the description of the mandibles hiding the face of the soldier.  

 

 

From The Shadow Rising

"The soldiers fascinated him, men and Ogier, the way a colorful poisonous snake might.  They killed."

 

The Ogier fought alongside men with their helmets like some monstrous insect's head in the War of Power.  The Ogier fight alongside men with their helmets like some monstrous insect's head for the Seanchan.  

 

The descriptions are too exact for this to be coincidence.  RJ doesn't work like that.  Why are the Seanchan using the same helmets?  Is there something special about them, other than the fact that they would offer a tactical advantage in making your army look like monsters?  Why do the Ogier fight with them?  We have never heard any mention of Seanchan Ogier needing stedding.  Do Seanchan Ogier not feel the longing?  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Greets to all, long time lurker, first time poster... If I may, I'd like to toss in my own little spin on this.

 

We first hear of Davram Bashere in Book 4. He is described in book 5 as carrying a certain baton that's capped with a wolf's head. It's given a mildly cursory description, then rarely (if ever) described/mentioned again. Now, this is quite the stretch, I realize... but what if Bashere's baton is a ter'angreal usable by wolfbrothers?

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The Great Lord would not be pleased. He had strained from his prison to touch the world enough to fix the seasons in place. He was impatient to touch the world more, to shatter the void that contained him, and he would not be pleased.

 

The part that gets me about this quote is the shatter the VOID part.  We know to access the True Source and True Power you must be in the void or form the void.  We know RJ likes to talk about how the void shatters essentially with Rand when he was learning to channel or distressed.  It got me thinking that forming the void takes the person partially outside the pattern to where they can sense the one power(I assume essence of the creator) if they can channel. We know that people in the void are somewhat more distant from the real world and their bodies with pain and emotion.

 

Through Rand I am going to only assume that the darker void that allowed him to reach the true power which is essentially the opposite and allows him to reach into the dark ones prison.  I am again going to assume that the darkness around Rand was him being in that darker void and having the dark ones influence around him as he is partially accessing the dark ones prison.  We saw that Ishy in the earlier books has thick darkness around him and furnaces like eyes and mouth which I assume came from use of the True Power maybe it's also from being in this dark void as well for 3000 years or so.  We know that DO tainted Saidin but as we know all history isn't exactly perfect.  Maybe there was no counter stroke and it was simply that Saidin touching the DO caused the taint.  I could be that the True Power was mixed into Saidin which would mean it kind of crossed the voids exactly like oil and water like it's described.  We know the True Power causes insanity.

 

Maybe the fact that the Dark One and Creator exist in the void(s) is what we are missing?

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In The Shadow Rising when Rand goes thru the glass columns in Rhuidian he views the history of the Aiel thru his ancestors eyes.  One of the viewings, from the Age of Legends or the War of Power shows a scene of Aiel and Ogier and Nym singing to a field, and there is a soldier watching.  

 

From The Shadow Rising

"It was then that he saw the soldier, only a few steps away, watching them.  He had left his schocklance and fancloth battle cape somewhere, but he still wore his helmet, like some monstrous insect's head. its mandibles hiding his face though his black shockvisor was raised."

 

From The Great Hunt

"The first to climb up was one of the armored men, and Domon saw immediately why some of the villager claimed the Seanchan themselves were monsters.  The helmet looked very much like some monstrous insect's head, with thin red plumes like feelers;  the wearer seemed to be peering out through mandibles."

I'm sure I am not the first to see this connection, but the similarity between the Seanchan and War of Power soldiers is first brought to light in book 4.  It is not just a similarity either, the descriptions are exact.  Like some monstrous insect's head.  Word for word.  Even the description of the mandibles hiding the face of the soldier.  

 

 

From The Shadow Rising

"The soldiers fascinated him, men and Ogier, the way a colorful poisonous snake might.  They killed."

 

The Ogier fought alongside men with their helmets like some monstrous insect's head in the War of Power.  The Ogier fight alongside men with their helmets like some monstrous insect's head for the Seanchan.  

 

The descriptions are too exact for this to be coincidence.  RJ doesn't work like that.  Why are the Seanchan using the same helmets?  Is there something special about them, other than the fact that they would offer a tactical advantage in making your army look like monsters?  Why do the Ogier fight with them?  We have never heard any mention of Seanchan Ogier needing stedding.  Do Seanchan Ogier not feel the longing?  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

This is a good idea, and very intersting, it seems to have merrit and shoudl be persued

 

Greets to all, long time lurker, first time poster... If I may, I'd like to toss in my own little spin on this.

 

We first hear of Davram Bashere in Book 4. He is described in book 5 as carrying a certain baton that's capped with a wolf's head. It's given a mildly cursory description, then rarely (if ever) described/mentioned again. Now, this is quite the stretch, I realize... but what if Bashere's baton is a ter'angreal usable by wolfbrothers?

 

This is dumb. It is not a stretch, its is the leap of faith from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade without the hidden bridge.

1. Woldbrothers have nothing, 0, zilch, nada to do with the one power, that is mentioned many times.

2.Its just described, perhaps because his son in law is a wolf brother?, WAIT! His nose is described too, TER'ANGREAL!!!

3. Your right its given a small description then rarely, never mentioned again, so its just like everyother item acessory that is unimportant besides the fact it gives its owner a deeper character.

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The Great Lord would not be pleased. He had strained from his prison to touch the world enough to fix the seasons in place. He was impatient to touch the world more, to shatter the void that contained him, and he would not be pleased.

 

The part that gets me about this quote is the shatter the VOID part.  We know to access the True Source and True Power you must be in the void or form the void.  We know RJ likes to talk about how the void shatters essentially with Rand when he was learning to channel or distressed.  It got me thinking that forming the void takes the person partially outside the pattern to where they can sense the one power(I assume essence of the creator) if they can channel. We know that people in the void are somewhat more distant from the real world and their bodies with pain and emotion.

 

Through Rand I am going to only assume that the darker void that allowed him to reach the true power which is essentially the opposite and allows him to reach into the dark ones prison.  I am again going to assume that the darkness around Rand was him being in that darker void and having the dark ones influence around him as he is partially accessing the dark ones prison.  We saw that Ishy in the earlier books has thick darkness around him and furnaces like eyes and mouth which I assume came from use of the True Power maybe it's also from being in this dark void as well for 3000 years or so.  We know that DO tainted Saidin but as we know all history isn't exactly perfect.  Maybe there was no counter stroke and it was simply that Saidin touching the DO caused the taint.  I could be that the True Power was mixed into Saidin which would mean it kind of crossed the voids exactly like oil and water like it's described.  We know the True Power causes insanity.

 

Maybe the fact that the Dark One and Creator exist in the void(s) is what we are missing?

I think the Void that GLoD wants to shatter is a vacuum "phantom zone" that insulates the world from him

The void that RaT and other channelers, blademasters, etc, talk about is a meditative state of mind of high focus when their thoughts are uncluttered by doubt and extraneous feelings. It's spoken of quite often by Yoga adepts, In martial arts and by Eastern Epic heroes - there's a description in the Mahabharatha of Arjuna's archery for instance and also in Bushido.

Two entirely different things. 

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This is a good idea, and very intersting, it seems to have merrit and shoudl be persued

 

 

 

This is interesting, I agree, but it has def. been talked about before, it must have been mentioned in this thread already. The person who pursues it should look into what has already been said about it and then they wont have to double up on the research.

 

If this is what BS was talking about I will be very disappointed. It would be more disappointing than the whole of the Goodkind series.

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The Great Lord would not be pleased. He had strained from his prison to touch the world enough to fix the seasons in place. He was impatient to touch the world more, to shatter the void that contained him, and he would not be pleased.

 

The part that gets me about this quote is the shatter the VOID part.  We know to access the True Source and True Power you must be in the void or form the void.  We know RJ likes to talk about how the void shatters essentially with Rand when he was learning to channel or distressed.  It got me thinking that forming the void takes the person partially outside the pattern to where they can sense the one power(I assume essence of the creator) if they can channel. We know that people in the void are somewhat more distant from the real world and their bodies with pain and emotion.

 

Through Rand I am going to only assume that the darker void that allowed him to reach the true power which is essentially the opposite and allows him to reach into the dark ones prison.  I am again going to assume that the darkness around Rand was him being in that darker void and having the dark ones influence around him as he is partially accessing the dark ones prison.  We saw that Ishy in the earlier books has thick darkness around him and furnaces like eyes and mouth which I assume came from use of the True Power maybe it's also from being in this dark void as well for 3000 years or so.  We know that DO tainted Saidin but as we know all history isn't exactly perfect.  Maybe there was no counter stroke and it was simply that Saidin touching the DO caused the taint.  I could be that the True Power was mixed into Saidin which would mean it kind of crossed the voids exactly like oil and water like it's described.  We know the True Power causes insanity.

 

Maybe the fact that the Dark One and Creator exist in the void(s) is what we are missing?

I think the Void that GLoD wants to shatter is a vacuum "phantom zone" that insulates the world from him

The void that RaT and other channelers, blademasters, etc, talk about is a meditative state of mind of high focus when their thoughts are uncluttered by doubt and extraneous feelings. It's spoken of quite often by Yoga adepts, In martial arts and by Eastern Epic heroes - there's a description in the Mahabharatha of Arjuna's archery for instance and also in Bushido.

Two entirely different things. 

 

I know don't know if they are all that different. RJ uses the same terms shattering the void.  Yeah RJ does incorporate real world feats but there is no power to channel at the end of it in the RL.

 

Just think about it for a minute in Randland mode. It's obvious that both the creator and DO exist outside the pattern.  We know that True Power is essentially DO himself and with the ying yang thing we can assume that the one power is the essence of the Creator.  To reach these powers you have to reach a meditative state that is called the void.  We then here Ishy talk about the DO wanting to shatter the void.  In the first books Rand always talks about the strings of light and dark extending to forever if I remember correctly which I always assumed represented them touching Saidin and the DO's filter for Forsaken/Chosen.  What if the void is what's outside the Pattern?

 

 

 

 

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