The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[rubbernilly]

Speaking of things that might have been put in place specifically for Rand, I've always been confused on how Callandor could possibly have been warded so that Rand, who wouldn't be born for 3000 years, would be the only person who the ward would permit to access the Sword.  Has that ever been discussed in the forums?  I mean, I guess that was introduced in Book 3, not Books 4-6, but still... 

 

That's one I've always wondered about also.  As far as I know, nobody has ever had an explanation.

 

The Stone of Tear wasn't built and Callandor wasn't placed there and warded until long after Lews Therin was dead, and much longer even before Rand was born.  How somebody could Ward it to recognize Rand seems to be one of those impossibilities that we were supposed to not notice.

 

It wouldn't have had to have been that specific.

 

(Wow, that is one heck of a verb tense there, "have had to have been"... wow)

 

They could have logically assumed that the Dragon had the largest potential of saidin-channeling ability of anyone, ever. Like a huge river where others might have streams. They could have also assumed that he would keep that river-volume ability from life to life. All they would have had to have done (there's that tense again) would be to ward the sword so that only a male of "this much" power could touch it... and not a reference to how much they were channeling at the moment (yes, I see the angreal and sa'angreal challenge coming), but rather to their individual unaided potential.

 

...Of course, if you believe that Mierin was augmented by the wish-finn in the Age of Legends to have a higher innate channeling ability than she had when she was born--in fact, more than any other woman *could* have (see Cyndane's comment regarding Alivia at the cleansing)--before she became Lanfear, then you can see one other possible challenge to this theory of how Callandor could have been warded to potential rather than individual. If Moridin, for instance, had asked to be so augmented and then drew the sword... oh, what a different world.

 

But even the Age of Legend-ers don't realize that this is what Lanfear did, if it is indeed what she did, so they would not see this hole in their reasoning to ward for male-potential.

[rubbernilly]

What about Mat's protestations to Rand that he would never betray him (after living hundreds of lives where we can assume that he did betray Rand over and over in order to produce that outburst) when Rand took them to Toman Head?

 

That could tie into the images relating to Mat's eye...

 

...Egewene's dream of Mat dicing with the Dark One, his hat pulled down and blood streaming down his face...

...the prediction that Mat would give up half the light of the world to save the world...

...Mat was the one that drank the wine he was offered by Ba'alzamon in his dream, early on...

 

Plus we know that Mat's memories/experiences are accessible to the Finn. Else he could not have memories of other men dying. He comes to that conclusion, too. So there is a tie already there to someone watching him. Could it be that the DO is watching through Mat, too? Could he set to betray Rand without even knowing it?...and the only way to sever the link is to lose an eye?

 

I know that is an old theory, but I submit it here for consideration as the "Little Big Thing" Brandon referred to.

 

[Terez]

What about Mat's protestations to Rand that he would never betray him (after living hundreds of lives where we can assume that he did betray Rand over and over in order to produce that outburst) when Rand took them to Toman Head?

Book 2.

 

I'm sure Eclipse will be happy to know someone is still preaching his Mat pawn theory though.

[jemron]

...Mat was the one that drank the wine he was offered by Ba'alzamon in his dream, early on...

 

 

Wait... what?!

[rubbernilly]

Standard apology: I have not read the entire thread, so forgive if this is not new.

 

What about the Gholam wanting to be free of its master? There is that line that 'it's mind held the idea of being finally free.' Could be a gholam~Golem connection... In tLotR, Golem inadvertantly 'aids' Frodo in the destruction of the ring, something neither of the would have wanted to do on their own.

 

I just hope that we recognize whatever it is when it happens... that we have an 'a-ha' moment of, 'oh, that seed was planted many moons ago... cool.'

 

Probably not, since we don't see a Gholam POV until tPoD. The first whiff we see of a Gholam at all is at the end of LoC where he kills Master Fel.

 

Well, don't rule this possibility out completely...

 

LoC is book 6, which puts it in the range of books 4-6 that Brandon said is where this detail roots. The POV later could be part of what he said about the detail being touched on and developed later.

 

If I understand what he said about it, this is still a possibility.

[Terez]

Wait... what?!

It's just a theory, since Mat didn't want to talk about his dream, iirc.

[Auld Manriva]

In the AoL (according to the BWB), any serious usage of the OP was usually done with both halves of the OP. Meaning circles of men and women. So it's not unusual that Callandor would have that flaw (if that's really what it is); it was made without using both halves I'd imagine, but needed both to work. That a specific circle of 3 with a man directing the flow/weaves is seen as a flaw in the 3rd Age isn't strange either. Not with the prevailing culture. Which is for the most part matrilineal and as knuckle headed a culture as can be imagined. Yeah, let women run things, they can do it better! (nudge nudge wink wink). JK, don't get all bowed up ya'll.

 

How would they make it recognize the DR specifically? I don't have a clue.

 

I think Callandor has to be or will be used in sealing the bore. That way, with both halves being used it gets sealed without the taint being applied once more and it's permanent or "more" permanent. Meaning LTT's first attempt was half-arsed, with there being no Saidar used.

 

But is this the Big Unnoticed Thing? I don't think so.

 

 

What significance does the fact that a woman can heal a man of "gentling" completely and a man a woman completely have, but a same gender healing  of stilling/gentling only heals partly? I think it's significant, but I've not put it together yet entirely. I feel it's related to how the OP is more effectively used as in Callandor above.

 

But again... I'm not sure this is "tBUT"  ....

 

Nynaeves' delving; where she could "see" an internal brain structure to me was startling. I think she and the others are VERY close to acquiring a skill that Lanfear threatened Rand with IIRC. The ability to kill instantly with the Power using very little strength, by cutting some internal vessel, nerve path etc. and no one is the wiser. I'll wager if Nynaeve and Damer Flynn teamed up on Rand they could get rid of his "Never Healing Wounds" in almost the same manner as Rand cleansed Saidin.

[analyticalkeys]

I think Callandor has to be or will be used in sealing the bore. That way, with both halves being used it gets sealed without the taint being applied once more and it's permanent or "more" permanent. Meaning LTT's first attempt was half-arsed, with there being no Saidar used.

 

RJ stated that saidar would've been tainted if it was used too.

[havoc110]

So Rand will use the True Power, then...

[Jareth Bixx]

@ Jareth Bixx - You're thinking of Else Grinwell.  I'm not 100% that the real Else was ever in the Tower, but she was booted from the Tower for being a slacker...

 

Thanks much. Back to the proverbial drawing board...

[rubbernilly]

What about Mat's protestations to Rand that he would never betray him (after living hundreds of lives where we can assume that he did betray Rand over and over in order to produce that outburst) when Rand took them to Toman Head?

Book 2.

 

I'm sure Eclipse will be happy to know someone is still preaching his Mat pawn theory though.

 

Not sure who Eclipse is, but I probably predate him, at least on this board. Not that I came up with the theory (not first, anyway). I'm sure someone had this same idea before it occured to me.

 

As far as the idea itself, we'll know the truth soon enough. You can't get around resolving a prophecy as important as saving the world.

[rubbernilly]

...Mat was the one that drank the wine he was offered by Ba'alzamon in his dream, early on...

 

 

Wait... what?!

 

Wellllll.... go back to the scene where they are talking about their dreams and realizing who the man was and what the implications were if the *had* taken the wine he had offered. IIRC, Rand and Perrin are adamant that they didn't drink. Mat's denial has more of a, 'oh light, what have I done?' sort of feel to it.

 

It *is* a read between the lines sort of inference, but I think that RJ fully intended you to draw the connection. It is totally the Edmund-eating-the-Ice-Queen's-treats-moment(from Narnia), and Mat would be the one who would have done it.

[zilcho]

When was the true power first mentioned? Could something related to it being what's mentioned? The saa for example, it's been mentioned on several occasions but from what I remember nothing really substantial. If it fits the bookframe maybe we could be on to something.

 

If it's also related to the true power it might have something with how rand could use it. This nut go to be cracked before the next book comes.

[Shard]

Mat was also the only one to touch one of the clay statues, the one with a dagger. Though by this time I think everyone knows who Perrin, Mat and Rand are anyways.

[WATCHER]

Just curious about something to do with Slayer. In the wolf dream, Perrin sees Slayer going into the Tower of Ghenjei. This is in the Chapter 28, To The Tower of Ghenjei. Hopper tells Perrin Slayer is there in the flesh. As we all know this leads to the realms of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. In Chapter 6, when discussing the doorway ter'angreal, Moiraine tells Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave that questions concerning the Shadow are dangerous there. Slayer is a creation of the Shadow, then why under the Light does Slayer have access to the Tower of Ghenjei?

 

[yoniy0]

Just curious about something to do with Slayer. In the wolf dream, Perrin sees Slayer going into the Tower of Ghenjei. This is in the Chapter 28, To The Tower of Ghenjei. Hopper tells Perrin Slayer is there in the flesh. As we all know this leads to the realms of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. In Chapter 6, when discussing the doorway ter'angreal, Moiraine tells Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave that questions concerning the Shadow are dangerous there. Slayer is a creation of the Shadow, then why under the Light does Slayer have access to the Tower of Ghenjei?

 

Well, actually, there's a quote of BS being asked and refusing to answer whether or not Slayer goes *into* the tower or simply vanishes elsewhere (though I'll agree it's pretty clear that he does enter it, or at least wants Perrin to believe so).

What I can tell you, is that there is a quote of RJ speaking of the different physics of Finnland, where he mentions that while talking of the DO in Randland is bad luck, doing so in Finnland is REALLY not a good idea. It might not be that the Finns may react violently to mentions of the Shadow as much as the DO himself has some augmented power there/the very world reacts to the Shadow in some weird resonance way. If that's the case, Slayer doesn't necessarily need to have a problem going there.

[analyticalkeys]

Just curious about something to do with Slayer. In the wolf dream, Perrin sees Slayer going into the Tower of Ghenjei. This is in the Chapter 28, To The Tower of Ghenjei. Hopper tells Perrin Slayer is there in the flesh. As we all know this leads to the realms of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. In Chapter 6, when discussing the doorway ter'angreal, Moiraine tells Elayne, Egwene and Nyneave that questions concerning the Shadow are dangerous there. Slayer is a creation of the Shadow, then why under the Light does Slayer have access to the Tower of Ghenjei?

 

Well, actually, there's a quote of BS being asked and refusing to answer whether or not Slayer goes *into* the tower or simply vanishes elsewhere (though I'll agree it's pretty clear that he does enter it, or at least wants Perrin to believe so).

What I can tell you, is that there is a quote of RJ speaking of the different physics of Finnland, where he mentions that while talking of the DO in Randland is bad luck, doing so in Finnland is REALLY not a good idea. It might not be that the Finns may react violently to mentions of the Shadow as much as the DO himself has some augmented power there/the very world reacts to the Shadow in some weird resonance way. If that's the case, Slayer doesn't necessarily need to have a problem going there.

 

 

You know, that's a very good catch.. they never specifically say that they hate the Shadow, just that you shouldn't mention anything touching the Shadow.. and this brings thoughts of when Rand used to say Shai'tan's name after thinking he defeated him. Interesting..

[richnewton82]

.

[MrMatrim]

One small thing I noticed on my last re-read, was that at the end of tSR, Fain is adamant about going to Caemlyn before Tar Valon.  Since he is already in the Tower in the prologue of tFoH, it was never revealed what exactly he did there, nor do I really recall any deep discussions about it.  Couple that with the fact that Andor and Caemlyn will probably figure in heavily in ToM (1. since the whole Elayne thread was missing completely from the last book, and now needs to be moved forward, and 2. We now know Mat's thread is headed there as well), this might be that "small thing".

[yoniy0]

One small thing I noticed on my last re-read, was that at the end of tSR, Fain is adamant about going to Caemlyn before Tar Valon.  Since he is already in the Tower in the prologue of tFoH, it was never revealed what exactly he did there, nor do I really recall any deep discussions about it.  Couple that with the fact that Andor and Caemlyn will probably figure in heavily in ToM (1. since the whole Elayne thread was missing completely from the last book, and now needs to be moved forward, and 2. We now know Mat's thread is headed there as well), this might be that "small thing".

 

Oh, I like that. I seem to recall Elayne being surprised and frustrated (frankly, I was too) when the arsons didn't stop after she got rid of those BA sisters and Darkfriends. Maybe someone did left some surprises in the city...

Though, regarding Elayne not being in tGS, that was kind of expected (I was sure she was the one BS mentioned in his pre-release interviews). Both RJ and BS spoke of her plot as being closer to conclusion than anybody else's, of her already being where she needed to be for TG. In that regard, I don't feel we need to catch up with her during ToM, she just needs to get in line when everybody starts actually aligning themselves for TG.

[cleantoe]

One small thing I noticed on my last re-read, was that at the end of tSR, Fain is adamant about going to Caemlyn before Tar Valon.  Since he is already in the Tower in the prologue of tFoH, it was never revealed what exactly he did there, nor do I really recall any deep discussions about it.  Couple that with the fact that Andor and Caemlyn will probably figure in heavily in ToM (1. since the whole Elayne thread was missing completely from the last book, and now needs to be moved forward, and 2. We now know Mat's thread is headed there as well), this might be that "small thing".

 

Fain is probably what really made Elaida go batsh** paranoid and insane although she was making good progress there herself after deposing Siuan.

 

But although this is a good catch, I don't think that's it. Didn't Sanderson say that the repercussions would still be felt throughout the next book too? Well Elaida's been captured now, so I can't imagine that she'll have anymore major roles if any in the next 2 books.

 

So I don't think that's it.

[yoniy0]

Didn't Sanderson say that the repercussions would still be felt throughout the next book too? Well Elaida's been captured now, so I can't imagine that she'll have anymore major roles if any in the next 2 books.

 

No, he suggested something that Fain might have done in Caemlyn, on the way to TV

[Terez]

I'm sure Eclipse will be happy to know someone is still preaching his Mat pawn theory though.

 

Not sure who Eclipse is, but I probably predate him, at least on this board. Not that I came up with the theory (not first, anyway). I'm sure someone had this same idea before it occured to me.

A Theorylander, and I doubt you predate him.  I know you from Theoryland archives, but I'm pretty sure Eclipse was there before you.  Here's his Mat Pawn theory.  I can't find the original 'Lanfear was enhanced' theory.   :(

 

 

[Roisin]

Perhaps we will find out who Gaidal Cain was reborn as.  I wouldn't be shocked if Elayne gave birth to one very ugly child.  Yeah the timing isn't perfect, but we know time works differently in the dream world.

 

Olver is Gaidal Cain! Am I the only one who finds that blindingly obvious?

[analyticalkeys]

Perhaps we will find out who Gaidal Cain was reborn as.  I wouldn't be shocked if Elayne gave birth to one very ugly child.  Yeah the timing isn't perfect, but we know time works differently in the dream world.

 

Olver is Gaidal Cain! Am I the only one who finds that blindingly obvious?

 

It's so obvious that RJ has shot it down. Olver is too old to be Gaidal Cain.