The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Luckers]

The first instance of the Dead Walking is the reference to Maringail in the CoT Prologue.

[Barid Bel Medar]

1. With all the debate about somebody else having to hang Mat, isnt it strange that everyone is debating whether or not that can happen, but not how they have the power to grant wishes? surely if they can conjur up random Ter'Angreals and such, they can hang him on the tree?

 

2. I havent got an exact theory, but from reading the ToM blurb thing, my best guess is that it has something to do with Perrin and TAR, simply becasue the Mat storyline (ToG most likely) has been discussed to death in every way, while the "unseen enemy" with Perrin hasnt been touched on at all (that i have seen in any case)

 

(This unseen enemy could have something to do with the theory Luckers posted(I think anyway) about the TAR Unseen Eyes)

[NetSlider]

The Finns don't control the physics of the Wotland world so they can't access memories, tell fates, hand out gifts, etc. So they don't get "excited" about it or "Enjoy" meeting people in Wotland.

 

But there's no stated prohibition AFAIK about the Finns able to come and go between their realm and the Wotland, and there are legends about people meeting them in the Seanchan culture as well. So they may be perfectly capable of traveling normally about in the Wotland world. 

 

There's no proof that Slayer entered the ToG. He disappeared near it but he may just have left TAR. When  RJ was asked to confirm if Slayer went into ToG he RAFO-ed.

 

On what else except the fact that Slayer went near the ToG in TAR do you deduce a connection to the Finns?

 

Slayer cannot reach Rhuidean "in a flash" without your making some assumptions.

Rhuidean itself cannot be reached in TaR at this point of the TSR story. It is only able to be reached after Rand-Asmodean tear down the OP shield later. Amys tells Egwene this when Egwene suggests watching Rhuidean through TAR.

If Slayer is coming to hang Mat, he must 1)appear outside Rhuidean in TAR and then walk into Rhuidean past the shield - this will take some time and Aiel may see him.

2) he must get into ToG (other side of the Wotland continent), and then go into Finnland and travel through Finnland to the Rhuidean doorway. We don't know how long it will take since Finnland physics is different.

 

I find it easier to believe that the Finns who knocked out Mat, simply hanged him as well.

 

Slayer actually did go inside the Tower. When Perrin follows him in TAR in tSR (Chapter 28: To the Tower of Ghenjei; it's on my phone so I can't give a "specific" quote) it says that once the Tower came to view Slayer went right for it and that he vanished. Also, Perrin smells that the Slayer's smell stops there so he did go inside. Also, Slayer is in flash as Hopper confirms it.

In regards to Finns, they do get something in return for their "services" from humans. In Seanchen, there is a legend only about Snakes and Foxes granting answers and wishes (Tuan laughs at it when with Mat at one point). There is nothing about them "appearing." The only theoretically way that they would leave their realm would be through the doorways unless they could channel or something. However, if they could leave why would they not? When Mat goes through the door in Tear they say that it has been a long time. So, if they do get something of value from interacting with humans and they can leave, why would they not go to wot world when no one went through the door for a long time?

Now, it would be true that Slayer can not reach Rhuidean through TAR but if he is already in flash in the Tower he can simply walk out through the doorway.

[NetSlider]

1. With all the debate about somebody else having to hang Mat, isnt it strange that everyone is debating whether or not that can happen, but not how they have the power to grant wishes? surely if they can conjur up random Ter'Angreals and such, they can hang him on the tree?

 

2. I havent got an exact theory, but from reading the ToM blurb thing, my best guess is that it has something to do with Perrin and TAR, simply becasue the Mat storyline (ToG most likely) has been discussed to death in every way, while the "unseen enemy" with Perrin hasnt been touched on at all (that i have seen in any case)

 

(This unseen enemy could have something to do with the theory Luckers posted(I think anyway) about the TAR Unseen Eyes)

Or that Bashere is the DO!!!! Baha-haha-haha! :)

[Sharaman]

The Finns don't control the physics of the Wotland world so they can't access memories, tell fates, hand out gifts, etc. So they don't get "excited" about it or "Enjoy" meeting people in Wotland.

 

But there's no stated prohibition AFAIK about the Finns able to come and go between their realm and the Wotland, and there are legends about people meeting them in the Seanchan culture as well. So they may be perfectly capable of traveling normally about in the Wotland world. 

 

There's no proof that Slayer entered the ToG. He disappeared near it but he may just have left TAR. When  RJ was asked to confirm if Slayer went into ToG he RAFO-ed.

 

On what else except the fact that Slayer went near the ToG in TAR do you deduce a connection to the Finns?

 

Slayer cannot reach Rhuidean "in a flash" without your making some assumptions.

Rhuidean itself cannot be reached in TaR at this point of the TSR story. It is only able to be reached after Rand-Asmodean tear down the OP shield later. Amys tells Egwene this when Egwene suggests watching Rhuidean through TAR.

If Slayer is coming to hang Mat, he must 1)appear outside Rhuidean in TAR and then walk into Rhuidean past the shield - this will take some time and Aiel may see him.

2) he must get into ToG (other side of the Wotland continent), and then go into Finnland and travel through Finnland to the Rhuidean doorway. We don't know how long it will take since Finnland physics is different.

 

I find it easier to believe that the Finns who knocked out Mat, simply hanged him as well.

 

Slayer actually did go inside the Tower. When Perrin follows him in TAR in tSR (Chapter 28: To the Tower of Ghenjei; it's on my phone so I can't give a "specific" quote) it says that once the Tower came to view Slayer went right for it and that he vanished. Also, Perrin smells that the Slayer's smell stops there so he did go inside. Also, Slayer is in flash as Hopper confirms it.

 

Not confirmed that he entered.

 

TGS Tour 2009

Question: Perrin is chasing Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod, does Slayer actually disappear into the Tower of Ghenjei or does he disappear from the Dream?

Brandon's Answer: That’s actually something I wondered and I asked and that’s a RAFO. Both Slayer and the Tower of Ghenjei are things that are reserved for the Towers of Midnight.

 

CoS Tour 1997

Kjell from Sweden: In The Shadow Rising Perrin was chasing Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod. Slayer vanished at the Tower of Ghenjei. Did he enter it or did he just step out of the Dreamworld?

 

RJ: Read and find out.

 

 

Yes he's in the flesh - I was confused by your consistently spelling it as "flash", which means "quickly".

 

 

In regards to Finns, they do get something in return for their "services" from humans. In Seanchen, there is a legend only about Snakes and Foxes granting answers and wishes (Tuan laughs at it when with Mat at one point). There is nothing about them "appearing." The only theoretically way that they would leave their realm would be through the doorways unless they could channel or something. However, if they could leave why would they not? When Mat goes through the door in Tear they say that it has been a long time. So, if they do get something of value from interacting with humans and they can leave, why would they not go to wot world when no one went through the door for a long time?

Now, it would be true that Slayer can not reach Rhuidean through TAR but if he is already in flash in the Tower he can simply walk out through the doorway.

 

The Finns can leave their realm and enter the normal world.

But they can only make their bargains within their own realms. "They cannot affect the outside world" - RJ quote. So, they are excited when Mat,Rand and Moiraine enter because they must wait for visitors to their own realm to make the bargains.

 

Even assuming as you have,  Slayer enters ToG in TAR in the flesh, that is a long, long way from Rhuidean in Wotland geography. We know that the Finn realm has different physics but we don't know how the physics of the Finn realms work and how long it would take to reach the Doorway in Rhuidean from the ToG.

You must make further assumptions about time and space in the Finn realms.

You must also assume that the Finns have an agreement with Slayer and they can call on him on demand.

You must further assume that he can reach Rhuidean within the time required and carry out Mat and hang him.

Many, many assumptions - none of which can be proved, or supported.

 

Easier for the Finns to take a short walk.

 

 

 

[Hadilmir]

Though we do have six days unaccounted for after Mat entered the Doorway. A human being cannot hang from the neck and live for six days and we have no proof that time flows differently in Finnland because it most definitely did not work that way in Tear. It would have been mentioned if Rand/Mat/Moiraine's trips in Tear had all lasted six days. Don't bring up quotes, I've just reread the chapter. Everything fades and then there is a rope around his neck. That is no proof for either theory.

[lordofsoup]

It could have taken the finns six days to implant all of those memories into Mat's head.  And they just happened to put him out, when Rand popped out.  Also they might have been afraid to really kill him because he is Taveren. 

[Hadilmir]

It could have taken the finns six days to implant all of those memories into Mat's head.  And they just happened to put him out, when Rand popped out.  Also they might have been afraid to really kill him because he is Taveren. 

Both are possible reasons, but I was using my post to show that Slayer can not be counted out because of time restraints.

[NetSlider]

The Finns don't control the physics of the Wotland world so they can't access memories, tell fates, hand out gifts, etc. So they don't get "excited" about it or "Enjoy" meeting people in Wotland.

 

But there's no stated prohibition AFAIK about the Finns able to come and go between their realm and the Wotland, and there are legends about people meeting them in the Seanchan culture as well. So they may be perfectly capable of traveling normally about in the Wotland world. 

 

There's no proof that Slayer entered the ToG. He disappeared near it but he may just have left TAR. When  RJ was asked to confirm if Slayer went into ToG he RAFO-ed.

 

On what else except the fact that Slayer went near the ToG in TAR do you deduce a connection to the Finns?

 

Slayer cannot reach Rhuidean "in a flash" without your making some assumptions.

Rhuidean itself cannot be reached in TaR at this point of the TSR story. It is only able to be reached after Rand-Asmodean tear down the OP shield later. Amys tells Egwene this when Egwene suggests watching Rhuidean through TAR.

If Slayer is coming to hang Mat, he must 1)appear outside Rhuidean in TAR and then walk into Rhuidean past the shield - this will take some time and Aiel may see him.

2) he must get into ToG (other side of the Wotland continent), and then go into Finnland and travel through Finnland to the Rhuidean doorway. We don't know how long it will take since Finnland physics is different.

 

I find it easier to believe that the Finns who knocked out Mat, simply hanged him as well.

 

Slayer actually did go inside the Tower. When Perrin follows him in TAR in tSR (Chapter 28: To the Tower of Ghenjei; it's on my phone so I can't give a "specific" quote) it says that once the Tower came to view Slayer went right for it and that he vanished. Also, Perrin smells that the Slayer's smell stops there so he did go inside. Also, Slayer is in flash as Hopper confirms it.

 

Not confirmed that he entered.

 

TGS Tour 2009

Question: Perrin is chasing Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod, does Slayer actually disappear into the Tower of Ghenjei or does he disappear from the Dream?

Brandon's Answer: That’s actually something I wondered and I asked and that’s a RAFO. Both Slayer and the Tower of Ghenjei are things that are reserved for the Towers of Midnight.

 

CoS Tour 1997

Kjell from Sweden: In The Shadow Rising Perrin was chasing Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod. Slayer vanished at the Tower of Ghenjei. Did he enter it or did he just step out of the Dreamworld?

 

RJ: Read and find out.

 

 

Yes he's in the flesh - I was confused by your consistently spelling it as "flash", which means "quickly".

 

 

In regards to Finns, they do get something in return for their "services" from humans. In Seanchen, there is a legend only about Snakes and Foxes granting answers and wishes (Tuan laughs at it when with Mat at one point). There is nothing about them "appearing." The only theoretically way that they would leave their realm would be through the doorways unless they could channel or something. However, if they could leave why would they not? When Mat goes through the door in Tear they say that it has been a long time. So, if they do get something of value from interacting with humans and they can leave, why would they not go to wot world when no one went through the door for a long time?

Now, it would be true that Slayer can not reach Rhuidean through TAR but if he is already in flash in the Tower he can simply walk out through the doorway.

 

The Finns can leave their realm and enter the normal world.

But they can only make their bargains within their own realms. "They cannot affect the outside world" - RJ quote. So, they are excited when Mat,Rand and Moiraine enter because they must wait for visitors to their own realm to make the bargains.

 

Even assuming as you have,  Slayer enters ToG in TAR in the flesh, that is a long, long way from Rhuidean in Wotland geography. We know that the Finn realm has different physics but we don't know how the physics of the Finn realms work and how long it would take to reach the Doorway in Rhuidean from the ToG.

You must make further assumptions about time and space in the Finn realms.

You must also assume that the Finns have an agreement with Slayer and they can call on him on demand.

You must further assume that he can reach Rhuidean within the time required and carry out Mat and hang him.

Many, many assumptions - none of which can be proved, or supported.

 

Easier for the Finns to take a short walk.

 

 

 

"They cannot affect the outside world" does not mean that they can leave their world. It does not even mean that they can only make deals in their own world and not in WOT world. All it means is that they can not effect the WOT from their own world. Unless I'm missing the context of the quote it's pretty obvious.

In regards to Slayer and entering the Tower, Perrin would see him stepping outside. To think that he "vanished" (and vanished is the word used in the book) into WOT world in an instant without any kind of opening would be crazy (we know that in order to enter TAR in flesh one needs to open a gateway. Now, I'm not saying that Slayer can channel (though we don't know how he can do the thing he does without some use of power (maybe an object of power)) but it would be reasonable to think that there is some sort of gateway that opens for him (I don't remember his POV to confirm this).

In regards to timeline, there was six days to account for and one can cross LONG distances in TAR through "jumps" or even by just wishing it.

 

Now, all being said, what I initially said is that it stands to reason that Slayer was most likely candidate to hang Mat for Finns fore as far as we know they can not leave their domain. Could it have been someone else (like one of their prisoners, if they had any at that time)? Sure, but my money riding on Slayer. He was referenced a lot in tSR and his involvement not only in Two Rivers but also in regards to Finns would fit pretty well.

 

[Ashaman Kovan]

The Finns kind of hate the DO though right? So Slayer being so obviously connected to the DO is probably evidence against he and the Finns having any kind of working relationship.

[NetSlider]

The Finns kind of hate the DO though right? So Slayer being so obviously connected to the DO is probably evidence against he and the Finns having any kind of working relationship.

We don't know what's going on between DO and Finns. Moirane says that it is a bad idea to mention DO while inside, but that's about it. What we do know is that they did have Lanfear and she died while in their world. I might mean that they and DO do not get along. I like to think that they are indifferent to DO or the light. Kind of like arms sale man; he who pays get the merchandise. ;)

[Morsker]

The Finns kind of hate the DO though right? So Slayer being so obviously connected to the DO is probably evidence against he and the Finns having any kind of working relationship.

We know that asking questions touching on the Shadow has dire consequences, but it may be that the realm itself reacts poorly to it, not that the Finns punish it:

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

[Sharaman]

Though we do have six days unaccounted for after Mat entered the Doorway. A human being cannot hang from the neck and live for six days and we have no proof that time flows differently in Finnland because it most definitely did not work that way in Tear. It would have been mentioned if Rand/Mat/Moiraine's trips in Tear had all lasted six days. Don't bring up quotes, I've just reread the chapter. Everything fades and then there is a rope around his neck. That is no proof for either theory.

 

 

There are quotes that are relevant to time running differently in Finnland - how is one supposed to investigate this without bringing them up?

 

CoS tour 1996

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

Letter In 2000

RJ:  "When Moiraine and Lanfear went through the ter'angreal, it burned in part because both were channeling, and the world on the other side of the doorway has a radically different set of natural laws."

 

 

Time presumably does run differently in Finnland if physical laws differ. But we don't know how differently. Or even whether it's consistently different. Mat "guessed" he had been walking for an hour after entering the Doorway before he reached the chamber where he was granted his wishes.

The other possibility is that they kept him knocked out for whatever length of time before they hanged him.

 

They cannot affect the outside world" does not mean that they can leave their world. It does not even mean that they can only make deals in their own world and not in WOT world. All it means is that they can not effect the WOT from their own world. Unless I'm missing the context of the quote it's pretty obvious.

In regards to Slayer and entering the Tower, Perrin would see him stepping outside. To think that he "vanished" (and vanished is the word used in the book) into WOT world in an instant without any kind of opening would be crazy (we know that in order to enter TAR in flesh one needs to open a gateway. Now, I'm not saying that Slayer can channel (though we don't know how he can do the thing he does without some use of power (maybe an object of power)) but it would be reasonable to think that there is some sort of gateway that opens for him (I don't remember his POV to confirm this).

In regards to timeline, there was six days to account for and one can cross LONG distances in TAR through "jumps" or even by just wishing it.

 

Now, all being said, what I initially said is that it stands to reason that Slayer was most likely candidate to hang Mat for Finns fore as far as we know they can not leave their domain. Could it have been someone else (like one of their prisoners, if they had any at that time)? Sure, but my money riding on Slayer. He was referenced a lot in tSR and his involvement not only in Two Rivers but also in regards to Finns would fit pretty well.

 

@netslider - It's a matter of interpretation. I'm taking a minimalist position that they cannot meddle with the physics of the external world but they can go there. They prefer not to because they have no control of it and they cannot make bargains in the external world.

 

I think the Finns can walk out for a very simple reason. They could otherwise have slit Mat's throat inside their realm and thrown out the living body and left him to bleed to death. It would fulfil the terms of their bargain just as well. We know they can throw people out -- they did it to Mat in Tear. The fact that they chose to hang him suggests that it is equally easy for them to walk out and dump the body on the tree. No need for complicated favours and bargains with Slayer.  

 

You prefer to make assumptions about an unknown compact between Slayer and the Finns, plus assume that Slayer can cross the Finn realm very quickly from ToG to the Rhuidean doorway even though we know Finnland can't be reached from TAR and Slayer cannot therefore, use TAR to cross Finnland.

 

Two more things - the Finns said it was a very long time since somebody had come. Depending on how you interpret their sense of time it would rule out Slayer. Mat's last memories date back many hundreds of years. If nobody has come for hundreds of years, they cannot have an understanding with Slayer.

 

Second if the Finns will not even discuss the shadow, would they deal and make bargains with a creature of the Shadow? Just because Slayer features elsewhere in TSR doesn't make it likely that he features here. We have seen no connection between him and the Finn anywhere in any of the books.  

 

 

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Time was certainly slowed for Mat while he was within Rhuidean, but it was also slowed for Rand. it's difficult to see how Rand did not die of thirst if he had actually lived through 6 days in the columns. That suggests that the whole of Rhuidean was affected by the time-dilation - possibly a field generated by the columns, possibly something else.

 

[Sharaman]

Since the columns do weird things mentally, it's not inconceivable that they do weird things physically as well.

Rand could have been placed in near-suspended animation, once the "memory transfer" started.

That would slow down body processes and he certainly wasn't aware of what was happening around him to keep track of time, except in flashes, when he saw Muradin. 

Else, there could well be some time-dilation effect in the "Heart of Rhuidean".

 

Mat was in a parallel world for at least some of the time, rather than in Rhuidean itself.

And it's also clear from RJ's statements and from the descriptions that the parallel world of Finnland has different laws of space-time.

 

 

[FarShainMael]

It's a nice coincidence that Rand emerged from the columns in time to save Mat's life - but I suppose that's the ta'veren effect for you..

 

[NetSlider]

Ok, this is my last post on the Finn issue (promise).

 

@ Sharaman - I completely agree with you that it all comes down to perception. I just want to clarify that I never meant to imply that one can get to Finnland through TAR. What I meant was that once entering TAR one can quickly cross the distance to the Tower that is inside the TAR. Now, as I've said before, the context of the quote might be different, but does the fact that no one can use TAR to enter Finnland (after all, it makes sense as they are two different realms) also imply that no one can enter the Tower in TAR if one is in flesh? To be honest, I don't know.

In regards to mentioning DO - every time someone actually names the DO in WOT world weird things occur (like dimming lights and stuff). It might be that mentioning DO (even if not naming him per say) has a lot more affect in Finnland. That would explain why it is a bad luck to mention him but it does not mean that they hate DO. Once again, I'm not sold on the idea that DO is actually in alliance with Finns, but more like Finns are simply being Switzerland (no offence to Swiss people :))

Now, I do admit that I presume Finns have some sort of pact with Slayer, but it only makes sense as they do grant things to people that even someone wielding the power can not match (for example Mat's foxhead or memories). So, considering what Slayer can do and us not having any idea how and from where he got his power, it only logical to view Finns as the main suspect. After all, what he can do is very handy and I don't see how he remains to be unique if DO can grant his kind of power to anyone. It stands to reason that Slayer is unique because his ability does not come from the DO. Or maybe, besides having some sort of power granted to him by DO he also poses some sort of power object that lets him step inside and outside of TAR (kind of like Finns gave him an object and DO has a constant stream of TP going through it or it is being recharged at SG or something. I don't know nor I even conteplated on the idea at all, but this just something that came to me right now).

Also, Finns gave Mat memories of other man. I find is some what coincidental that Mat has "other" men in him (kind of) and Slayer/Luke are also multiple men in one body. Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.

So, I agree to disagree with you :D. I guess at the end of the day we can go on about this forever, but I hope that these kind of minor elements will be addressed by the end of the series or in the encyclopedia that Harriet is working on.

 

[birtikidis]

Though we do have six days unaccounted for after Mat entered the Doorway. A human being cannot hang from the neck and live for six days and we have no proof that time flows differently in Finnland because it most definitely did not work that way in Tear. It would have been mentioned if Rand/Mat/Moiraine's trips in Tear had all lasted six days. Don't bring up quotes, I've just reread the chapter. Everything fades and then there is a rope around his neck. That is no proof for either theory.

 

You're quote should read Reviled I did live, evil did I deliveR

[Kaznen]

Has anyone thought about the Whitecloaks camped outside of TV?  In book for Gawyn was telling Min how a few were aloud in TV each day and Galad would meet Eamon Valda (the local CO) for drinks at inns and taverns.

 

In book 6 when Valda returns to the fortress of light he tells Naill he had TV on the brink of collapse when he was recalled.  Should also note Galad was sent south before Carriden.

 

I think Valda had other goals in TV then just recruit a new officer, that was more of a bonus, and he set things in motion that have yet to come to fruition.  I think it was mentioned he worked great in cities and was good at whipping up mobs. 

[Shadar Mandarb]

Also, Finns gave Mat memories of other man. I find is some what coincidental that Mat has "other" men in him (kind of) and Slayer/Luke are also multiple men in one body. Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.

 

I doubt the Finns have the power to move souls around as in Slayer, or Lanfear would probably have been stuck inside Moiraine if she died. I suppose the DO could gave gotten her anyway, true. We just don't know enough at this point. Also note that Luc and Isam met in the Blight and fought there, not Tear or Rhuidean, at the time the locations of the two gateways, nor the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

It is distintcly possible that the BUT has something to do with Slayer and his unique abilities, however. BS also told us that Slayer would be featured in ToM and aMoL (if he doesn't die in ToM, which BS said is possible).

[tje]

hey i have only posted like once or twice before so go easy on me. Could the unnoticed thing in book 4 be that the aiel are descendants of the traveling people? i cant remember if we knew this before book 4 or not. this fact is also mentioned many times in following books. once again go easy on me. thank you

[Ashaman Kovan]

Doesn't fit with the 'not being discussed' requirement, at least. What with the bleakness and all that. It's been talked about to death.

[tje]

but has the connection between the two groups been discussed? like maybe the returning to the old ways or something

[Netizen]

It would be amusing, if the Aiel suddenly decided that they should all drop their spears and follow the way of the leaf. Say, right in the middle of Tarmon Gaidon. Just leaving Rand there wondering wtf to do next. ("er, Guys - little help?!")

[Luckers]

but has the connection between the two groups been discussed? like maybe the returning to the old ways or something

 

Yeah it has. By the way the Traveling People are descended from the Aiel, not the other way round. It goes...

 

Original;- Dai'shain Aiel (Aiel dedicated to the Way of the Leaf and the Aes Sedai).

 

After the Split;-

 

1. The Jenn Aiel (Aiel dedicated to the Way of the Leaf and the Aes Sedai--essentially those who held true. They all died out).

2. The Aiel (Aiel who remained true to the mission the Aes Sedai set them--in the sense that they stayed and defended the Wagons--but gave up the Way).

3. The Tuatha'an (Aiel who gave up service to the Aes Sedai, but held the Way).