The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[FarShainMael]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

[Sharaman]

The text on the naginata is there to let whoever finds Mat (dead or alive) know that the Finns kept their end of the bargain. The weapon is described as having a black ironwood haft with a power wrought steel blade.

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Ah, so! An expensive post-it note, though..  ;)

 

[mccuel]

Hey, new poster here and i dont know if this has been mentioned before as i cant be arsed reading all 250 pages of comments but is it not around book 4/5 that some of the aiel start wearing headbands proclaiming them as people of the dragon but nobody admits that they are wearing them?

 

I know its a bit of a stretch but i thought id post it on here as it isnt something ive seen discussed much. Maybe its to do with the people who are swearing themselves to the dragon; later the aes sedai start swearing oaths to him... i dunno, im just snatching at straws here

[Luckers]

Yes, that has been discussed. Check out my compilation of BUT Theories.

[Hadilmir]

Yes, that has been discussed. Check out my compilation of BUT Theories.

 

Wow, you really threw in the Cat/Saidar and Dog/Saidin thing. Thanks, though I still don't see how it could be relevant...

[Blackhoof]

I'd say its just a strange quirk of the respective animals. No more significant than the symbolised colours of either power half.

 

[Sharaman]

Initially I thought it could play some role in Halima being uncovered.

But it appears to be just a little detail.

 

[NetSlider]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

You know, I completely agree with you, but would be cool if the spear was also shock lance or something. Just a thought.

[Paerish Swar]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

You know, I completely agree with you, but would be cool if the spear was also shock lance or something. Just a thought.

 

I've commented on this once before, but I think it's strange that it is a power-forged weapon that is marked with black ravens.  I think it was the weapon of one of the shadow's generals either during the Trolloc Wars or during the War of Power in the AoL.

 

Looney, looney theory . . . I think it was a weapon made by Demandred for one of his "proxy" generals during the War of Power.  He'll recognize the weapon he once made for one of his cronies just moments before it separates his head from his neck.  Yeah, Mat!

 

I guess that little wish of mine belongs in the "thing you really want to happen" thread.

 

Anyway, I agree that there's something more to Mat's Ashandarei that we will hopefully learn about before the end of the series.  I doubt it's the BUT, though. 

[Random Man]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

You know, I completely agree with you, but would be cool if the spear was also shock lance or something. Just a thought.

 

I've commented on this once before, but I think it's strange that it is a power-forged weapon that is marked with black ravens.  I think it was the weapon of one of the shadow's generals either during the Trolloc Wars or during the War of Power in the AoL.

 

Looney, looney theory . . . I think it was a weapon made by Demandred for one of his "proxy" generals during the War of Power.  He'll recognize the weapon he once made for one of his cronies just moments before it separates his head from his neck.  Yeah, Mat!

 

I guess that little wish of mine belongs in the "thing you really want to happen" thread.

 

Anyway, I agree that there's something more to Mat's Ashandarei that we will hopefully learn about before the end of the series.  I doubt it's the BUT, though. 

Yeah, that makes two of us -- probably not the BUT, but still quite unexplained why the Finns would stick Mat with a weapon that he's been able to make such good use of, and seems quite familiar with, just to use as a Post-it note.

[FarShainMael]

Of course, the 'finns are able to scan the timeline ahead of the characters' perceptions; so they may have had something in mind. Not intentions exactly, just watching what develops.

 

 

[NetSlider]

I don't see it has anything to do with Demandred, but Seanchen...well, he was given the spear as Rand was pretty much seeing the soldier from ToL in the armor that Seanchen still use. Warders have the cloak and it would be pretty cool if the whole set was somehow reassembled before LB. Can you imagine, the Red Hand (that DO hates so much) rides into the battle wearing complete uniform from the time the DO was sealed away last time? Not the BUT but would be pretty cool...

[zach]

Not exactly sure this should go in this topic but i wasn't going to make a new one for it, it was just an idea i wanted to throw out there. we know rand isn't going to fight this battle like he thinks he is and if that has anything to do with TAR then wouldn't the horn of valere be possibly very bad...? If theyre all summoned into the real world and rand is helpless in TAR that could go very bad for him

[Sharaman]

Actually TG is unlikely to be fought in TAR as such. If it is, Rand has an edge.

One reason why it's unlikely is that Shayol Ghul can't be reached from there.

For another, Myrdraal can't enter TAR. Trollocs can enter, but it's difficult to see them being put into TAR en masse since they can't use Gateways to enter in the flesh (ter'angreal that works on trolloc dreams perhaps?) and it's tough to control trollocs without fades.

Rand OTOH can transport as many troops as he needs, using channeling gates.

Also the dead heroes can apparently get into TAR at will since they stay there in between lives, so assuming Mat can enter TAR with the HoV (in the flesh perhaps), the HoV would work well. 

[Charlz Guybon]

IMO the more intriguing question in regards 3rd-agers knowing AoL weaves is Moraine. This can't be the BUT because it's from TEoTW but we still don't know how she learned balefire. That is a question I would like answered even more than who killed Asmo.

 

I suspect she learned it from Adeleas and Vandene, or at least from some of the manuscripts she studies when she visits them. She doesn't use balefire until after her visit with them, but that's not very definitive proof at all, so mostly it's just a hunch.  ;)

 

I suspect Vandene taught her after the incident with the Draghkar.  It's confirmed that balefire is a secret weave of the Green Ajah-all Ajahs have them.  That's how Cadsuane knows what balefire is when she sees Rand use it in ACoS.

 

I feel confident that's how it happened, though Moiraine might have needed to do some art twisting.

Where is this confirmed?

[Ashaman Kovan]

I agree that she learned the last bit she needed to know from Vandene and Adealeas. She'd found information other places though.

But I don't remember anything about it ever being confirmed that Balefire is the "Secret Green Ajah Weave". Pretty sure that never happened.

[Random Man]

I agree that she learned the last bit she needed to know from Vandene and Adealeas. She'd found information other places though.

But I don't remember anything about it ever being confirmed that Balefire is the "Secret Green Ajah Weave". Pretty sure that never happened.

No, I don't think it was confirmed as such, and Moiraine never revealed where she learned Balefire from, but she did tell Perrin after using it on the Darkhounds that she'd become more dangerous than she'd been the last time she'd traveled with him (no copy of TDR with me, sorry), which means that, unless she was being uselessly enigmatic in truthfully saying something she didn't even need to say, she'd learned how to make Balefire at some point between tEoTW and TDR. This points toward Vandene and/or Adelas as providing key information that perhaps only their Ajahs knew.

[Charlz Guybon]

I agree that she learned the last bit she needed to know from Vandene and Adealeas. She'd found information other places though.

But I don't remember anything about it ever being confirmed that Balefire is the "Secret Green Ajah Weave". Pretty sure that never happened.

Well I figured that out, but I thought maybe Jordan or Sanderson might have mentioned it in an interview that I missed.

[Ashaman Kovan]

You didn't.

 

Adealeas was Brown Ajah though and wasn't Vandene described as being almost as bookish as a Brown?

So I don't think what they were studying had anything to do with either or any Ajah specifically.

[Hadilmir]

Actually TG is unlikely to be fought in TAR as such. If it is, Rand has an edge.

One reason why it's unlikely is that Shayol Ghul can't be reached from there.

For another, Myrdraal can't enter TAR. Trollocs can enter, but it's difficult to see them being put into TAR en masse since they can't use Gateways to enter in the flesh (ter'angreal that works on trolloc dreams perhaps?) and it's tough to control trollocs without fades.

Rand OTOH can transport as many troops as he needs, using channeling gates.

Also the dead heroes can apparently get into TAR at will since they stay there in between lives, so assuming Mat can enter TAR with the HoV (in the flesh perhaps), the HoV would work well. 

1. We have no proof that myrddraal can/can't enter TAR

2. We have no proof that trollocs can/can't enter TAR

3. Troops unfamiliar with TAR would be infinitely useless, remember the nightmares

4. Heroes of the Horn are trapped in TAR, they do not choose to go there

5. The Horn of Valere, unless it has a secondary purpose, would be quite useless in TAR, the Heroes are already there

[Dida]

4. Heroes of the Horn are trapped in TAR, they do not choose to go there

5. The Horn of Valere, unless it has a secondary purpose, would be quite useless in TAR, the Heroes are already there

 

Always wondered if Mat would take the Horn of Valere into the Tower of Ghenjei itself?

 

Would the Heroes of the Horn be able to fight against the Eelfinn successfully, in that parallel world?

 

[lordofsoup]

If Moraine does not learn how to make balefire while with Adelas and Vandene where else could she have learned it?  We are with her during most of her journey, and there has to be a reason she would stop off there, otherwise Jordan would not mention it. 

[Ashaman Kovan]

If Moraine does not learn how to make balefire while with Adelas and Vandene where else could she have learned it?  We are with her during most of her journey, and there has to be a reason she would stop off there, otherwise Jordan would not mention it. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that she didn't learn the last bit she needed to know from them and/or their reasearch. It is fairly obvious. But she'd been trying to piece the weave together for quite some time IIRC.

[farthammer]

Didn't Nynaeve use balefire without learning it from someone else?