Question on Moiraine

[algspkr]

I know I have seen it before, but I don't remember seeing any answers that I liked.

 

How did Moiraine recognize Sammael and Be'lal?

 

And no I don't believe her to be a darkfriend.

[Cybertrolloc]

The plot needed someone to put a name to them. Better her than Lan, Faile or Mandarb ;)

[Gurney]

who knows. maybe descriptions of the forsaken are a part of that information the white tower hides from everyone except initiates.

[kittydesmond]

good question! The answer may just show up in one of the prequels (sp?)...

[algspkr]

who knows. maybe descriptions of the forsaken are a part of that information the white tower hides from everyone except initiates.

In KoD Cadsuane did not recognize Semirage, and I believe that Mohogidean needed to intoduce herself too.

[Rhetrus]

Perhaps something Moirain saw in her raising to Accepted or to the shawl?

 

Perhaps she was told, or saw?, that she was to destroy the forsaken to save TDR.

 

Just a theory :?

[Dionysus]

Is she able to sense darkfriends?

 

She also knew of Asmodean.

[Zardi]

But she knew about Asmo by eavesdropping on he and Rand, I thought.

[Dionysus]

I dont know if its clear how she knew of Asmodean, I could be wrong though, but as far as I can recall she doesnt say how she knows in her letter to Rand, and thats the first we hear of that she knew.

[Zardi]

I know Moiraine doesn't say in her letter, but I think Egwene caught her using her blue stone trick once, in FoH.

[kittydesmond]

I know for sure she sensed the dark hounds that was really laid out, so somehow she has a gift...

[mike]

lan has the uncanny nack of picking up on that sort of thing as well.

i have thought that he maybe able to channel as he has always been described as having "the DOs own luck" on more than one occasion. we are to learn that all men that could channel were know for this as well.

 

moiraine apparently paid more attention to certain details during her time in the tower and learned a lot of life secrets that sisters that hibernate in the tower can't take full advantage of. remember that she did a lot of work in the amyrlin's study and heard gitara's foretelling. she read about topics that run deep whenever she could get her hands on the material. she was out of the tower for close to 20 years and had to learn a lot on her own, with the help of lan, who seems to have an innate 6th sense about the world himself.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Moiraine senced the Darkhounds because they were Shadowspawn. It is noted several times in the books that Aes Sedai and Warders can sense Shadowspawn unless someone is Warding them. We first saw the ability in the initial Trolloc attack on the Two Rivers when we are told that Lan and Moiraine charged out of the inn well before anyone else knew something was wrong. I think it was said somewhere that it is a side effect of touching the One Power, and is then transmitted along the bond. Moiraine even told Perrin at one point (Perrin refers to it in The Dragon Reborn Chapter 34) that she can even sense a Darkfriend if he his really far under the Shadow. While she says that bad of a Darkfriend is rare, I would suspect the Foresaken would fall into that group if anyone did. That raises the question of why no other Aes Sedai are sensing them. Maybe the Foresaken realize they can be sensed and have taken to Warding themselves like someone did the Draghkar that tried to kill Moiraine in The Great Hunt.

 

It is a good question how she placed a name to Bel'al and Sammael though. I would suspect she may have dug something up when she was visiting Vandene and Adeleas in The Great Hunt. For Asmodean, the Rhuidean Rings most likely gave her the information.

[Luckers]

She may possibly have deduced the truth based on his actions.

[Kadere]

or it could be the fact that she asked around and everyone was having the same nightmares, so she knew it was a Forsaken, and then from the description (or possibly his actions in the nightmares) deduced that it was Sammael, and everyone in the town would have known who he was in the Council.

[Guest cwestervelt]

To be able to deduce which Foresaken it was from the contents of the dreams people where having requires more knowledge than the Aes Sedai supposedly have of the Foresaken. That is why I suspected she found some additional information when she was visiting Adelaes and Vandene.

[Cybertrolloc]

Sammael has his famous scar, but he's used disguises as well (i.e. Cadder). I think he appears as normal to Carridin, but I don't remember a description of Lord Brend. Belal is more puzzling, especially since she knew less about him than Loial.

 

I don't see a sensible way for her to know outside of reading Jordan's notes.

[Guest cwestervelt]

He had a distinguishing scar yes, but how would Moiraine have known about that? Numerous times it is mentioned how nothing more than their assumed names survived the Breaking. It wasn't knowledge that she would have gotten from Tar Valon. That is why I said I would suspect she learned something while at Adeleas and Vandene's. Those two had a lot of unique information that wasn't available anywhere else.

[vikingdriver]

Did she not face them once long ago? I seem to remember reading something about her wither seeing or facing one if not both in EoTW.

[Luckers]

cwestervelt... actually whats said is that 'little more then there assumed names survived the breaking'. Other information sirvived too... more for some, less for others--like the fact that Lanfear was involved with LTT.

[n00l3y]

I havent read New Spring yet, but I believe that Moirane must have spent quite a bit of her life learning about Darkfriends, Shadowspawn and Forsaken. For one, she and Siuan were intent on finding the Dragon Reborn a long time ago. I guess this would not only mean the prophecies, but also whatever he would have to face.

 

Just a guess, but perhaps Moirane spent more time investigating than is told in the books? Asking others is a good way to know what another person is like, and Moirane may have had enough experience from both the WT and Cairhien to uncover both Forsaken.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

As for Asmodean, she actually deduces that from a prophecy in TSR.

 

When they were still in tear, she reads some prophecy that says "The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,//dances the sword in dreams and mist,//chains the Shadowsworn to his will,//from the city, lost and forsaken,//leads the spears to war once more,"

 

Originally, she thinks that this means he must take Tear's army to lead the spears to war and defeat Sammael and Illian, Illian being the forsaken city, and him being the Shadowsworn he chains.

 

Later in TSR, he comes from Rhuidean marked with the dragons, and bleeding from the dust thingies from the bubble of evil. Moiraine realizes that she was wrong about her original thoughts about the prophecy. Later she asks where Rand will "lead the spears to war once more."

 

His second visit to Rhuidean brought Jasin Natael, who came through with Rand in the gateway back to Alcair Dal. Moiraine puts two and two together which equals Jasin Natael being the Shadowsworn he chains to his will.

 

In her letter though, she doesn't mention any Forsaken name, just Natael, not because she doesn't want the wrong eye to see, but because she doesn't know which of the Forsaken Natael was.

[Luckers]

Well it seems fairly obvious that she would have learnt who Natael was in listening to him and Rand.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

Well it seems fairly obvious that she would have learnt who Natael was in listening to him and Rand.

 

Yeah, that could be it as well, but honestly Rand wouldn't be recieving lessons from Natael without worry that some gai'shain or some Wise One would hear something they shouldn't hear. I'd think it would be natural for one of the first things he learns would be a ward on eavesdropping. The first thing he asked Asmodean to teach him was to ward his dreams, something similar in a sense to warding eavesdropping.

[Luckers]

He had the maidens keeping people away during those lessons, which we saw through Egwene... we also saw that Moiraine was successful in evesdropping on them through the same section of the books through her.