How Many Currently-Living *BladeMasters* Are There? - I Thiiink *4* - Right?

[Vulgir]

Garth Bryne is a blademaster as well, safe to assume so since he's got a heron marked sword.

 

as for the debate, i like Gawyn more and more in raw skill and ability, though Lan would probably win because experince is everything

[moroten]

I just reread...that is not Toram Raitin in WH. I would equate it to what is left of a person after Graendal uses heavy compuslion on them.

 

The real Toram Raitin, the PERSON Toram Raitin, is eaten up by Mashaddar in Book 7, Chapter 36 Blades

 

But its cool, I mean, in spirit you were right.

 

 

 

Fish

 

Are you insane? You got no backing up for this statement, we dont even see Toram getting attacked by the fog in that chapter, the last time we see him is when he flees from Rand when he realizes who Rand really is. And what attacks the camp in chapter 36 is a bubble of evil, you know one of these things that attack Rand, Mat and Perrin in Tear in tSR, you should look it up really interesting.

Mashadar on the other hand lives in Shadar Logoth and is tied to that place, not to mention only comes out at night, this attack of the camp ccures during daylight.

 

Toram SURVIVES the attack on the camp and gets out of the bubble of evil, Toram DIES in WH when he looses the duel versus Lan.

 

If I didnt know better I would think you were a troll.

 

Anyway, you should reread the entire series.

[Vulgir]

Padan Fain brings Toram Riatin with him to Far Madding. When they confront Rand and Lan, Lan kills Toram. (WH,Ch33)

[Seanie]

Wait... Are you sure it was a bubble of evil?? Its just that it was soooo close to what Mashadar is, not sure if RJ would let it be a coincidence! Im not disagreeing about Riatins death, yeah it was in WH, but I remember reading that when Padan Fain was tracking Rand post infection with Shadar Logoth bacteria (i like to call it that) similar foggy-type killing things were mentioned by people in the cities he stayed in, you know like "the people talk of strange mists that float around killing people"

 

Im not trying to ruffle anyones feathers, if anyone can quote RJ writing that it was a bubble of evil ill drop it, otherwise ill fight anyone about it, im the 7th Blademaster doncha know  ;) ;) ;)

[Vulgir]

What happend was very different from mashadar, mashadar has tenticles, and small limbs that wrap around people, the bubble of evil werent there shapes and figures emereging from the fog? Also i dont know what ur talking about with fog following Fain everywhere, can u list a chapter or a specific quote that actually has it?

[Reyoru]

Riatin was KILLED BY LAN, references above.

 

And Ituralde - RAFO  ;D

[Seanie]

yeah you're right, just thought that is was a very strange bubble of evil since the others consisted of everyday items trying to kill people - tents, axes, cards, pots and pans, clothes, etc. maybe the fog as well. And i cant quote one right now cos id have to go looking for it, a bad idea when i have two exams on thurs, ill concede that its not mashadar. For now. lol

[The Fisher King]

Ok, please allow me to clarify. I understand that it was technically Toram in WH dueling Lan. What I was trying to say (actually, what I DID say, if anyone read) was that I didn't consider who dueled Lan in WH to truly be Toram anymore.

 

It was like an empty husk, or a shell of what HAD been Toram Raitin, imo.

 

To back-up what I am trying to say with examples, I would offer what is left of a ''person'' after having heavy compulsion used on them by Graendal...or, much the way that currently ''Padan Fain'' isn't really the man Padan Fain anymore...Or, how the current ''Lord Luc'' isn't really the person Lord Luc anymore.

 

Im sure that makes a little more sense (which is why I said all of that clearly in the previous post lol) in terms of what I am saying. I do NOT consider the Toram that dueled Lan to really still be Toram Raitin at that point.

 

As for Book 7 and Masshadar, There is no other reasonable assumption that can be drawn in that chapter but that Masshadar got ahold of Toram.

 

Its called using 'Context Clues' - We don't always have to 'See' something happen to understand, or intuit that it did indeed happen.

 

 

Toram in WH was probably very similar to the 'Liah' that Rand encountered his second trip back through Shadar Logoth after Maichin Shin (Masshadar/Maichin Shin=Same Thing) got ahold of her.

 

 

Anyway, I apologize for any part that was mine in the unclarity - thanks for letting me clarify and set the record straight.

 

 

 

 

Fish

 

[Nae Bliss]

aren't some of the asha'man at blademaster level? Ther aren't any blademsters to duel though so I don't know does anybody else? ???

[Reyoru]

Toram in WH was probably very similar to the 'Liah' that Rand encountered his second trip back through Shadar Logoth after Maichin Shin (Masshadar/Maichin Shin=Same Thing) got ahold of her.

 

When Rand found Liah, Mashadar had not yet "got a hold of her". Sure she a bit shaken, but wasn't a "mindless husk" - she knew who Rand was and ran away from him, not because of being insane or souless, but because of her toh - the Car'a'carn had commanded the maidens to not go away alone or touch anything in Shadar Logoth.

 

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that Toram Riation was attacked by mashadar, or even ever encountered it.

[The Fisher King]

I hear you, Reyoru - Im just going by the context.

 

 

Fish

[Talmanes]

On a side note Mashadar and Machin Shin (the black wind) are not the same thing. They are described different and do things different. Mashadar is only found in Aridhol (Shadar Logoth) and The Black Wind is only found in the Ways. Plus we know that Machin Shin does not always kill such as the Ogier that came out insane and "empty". Mashadar kills however.

[Vulgir]

(Masshadar/Maichin Shin=Same Thing) Not true. Machin Shin drives people mad, while Mashadar was created by the taint in Aridhol. Mashadar rips people apart, Machin Shin makes them mad.

 

I think what you mean is that madness that Fain spreads, IE such as can be seen while he is with the white cloaks, how his taint effects his group of Whitecloaks. The only problem with the statement that your making is that we never see Toram without Fain, so there is no time range to know how long they have been together or what he was like before Fain. Toram seemed kinda of mad and hateful towards rand already while in the camp.

 

but at the same time lets get back to the topic with some triva

 

whos the only Forsaken Blademaster that has be stated?!@!@

[moroten]

Ok, please allow me to clarify. I understand that it was technically Toram in WH dueling Lan. What I was trying to say (actually, what I DID say, if anyone read) was that I didn't consider who dueled Lan in WH to truly be Toram anymore.

 

It was like an empty husk, or a shell of what HAD been Toram Raitin, imo.

 

To back-up what I am trying to say with examples, I would offer what is left of a ''person'' after having heavy compulsion used on them by Graendal...or, much the way that currently ''Padan Fain'' isn't really the man Padan Fain anymore...Or, how the current ''Lord Luc'' isn't really the person Lord Luc anymore.

 

Im sure that makes a little more sense (which is why I said all of that clearly in the previous post lol) in terms of what I am saying. I do NOT consider the Toram that dueled Lan to really still be Toram Raitin at that point.

 

As for Book 7 and Masshadar, There is no other reasonable assumption that can be drawn in that chapter but that Masshadar got ahold of Toram.

 

Its called using 'Context Clues' - We don't always have to 'See' something happen to understand, or intuit that it did indeed happen.

 

 

Toram in WH was probably very similar to the 'Liah' that Rand encountered his second trip back through Shadar Logoth after Maichin Shin (Masshadar/Maichin Shin=Same Thing) got ahold of her.

 

 

Anyway, I apologize for any part that was mine in the unclarity - thanks for letting me clarify and set the record straight.

 

 

 

 

Fish

 

 

I knew very well what you were trying to say and I resent it because it build upon the fact that Mashadar was present at the camp at book 7 which is, listen carefully now, IMPOSSIBLE. Mashadar is bound to Shadar Logoth, a city LEAGUES away from the camp. The fog and mashadar arent even remotely similair except that they take the appereance of a fog, wow that must be some foreshadowing by RJ(sarcasm).

 

Your argument is as invalid as it can possibly be since it bases its assumption on a fact you have taken for granted and which is completly WRONG, how am I now getting through to you?

[The Fisher King]

Hey, i'm not trying to offend you, and i'm sorry if it came out that way. We just have a difference of opinion on the subject.

 

 

As for it being Bound, I may well be crazy, but I would swear that I remember someone in the later books expressing horror over the fact that Masshadar was NO longer Bound and could now travel at will.

 

We are also told early in the series that Maichin Shin/Masshadar is the only weird air-thingy.

 

Anyway, again, I do apologize if I seemed dense or offensive - not my intent. We just have a difference of opinion on this matter.

 

 

Its still cool for people to have differing opinions lol! ;)

 

 

 

Fish

 

[deathgate]

 

Its still cool for people to have differing opinions lol! ;)

 

 

 

Somethings aren't explained and are open to interpretation. Others are expalined in detail in print in the book. Indeed Mashadar is tied to Shadar Logoth as was Mordeth until Fain came and he was able to mesh with him and leave. Riatin is not compulsed but is tainted by Fain/Mordeth because of his constant companionship. Just as the Whitecloaks who were close to Fain/Mordeth were in the Two Rivers and Mat was when carrying the dagger. Riatin most likely still had all of his skill and perhaps more. Lan killing him was a big deal.

[Sharaman]

Maybe one of the 5 Great Captains of Randland is a Blademaster.

Indeed Gareth Byrne trained Galad and there's a reference there in the fight with Valda.

Also Demandred I suspect and probably Taim since he says he can barely hold a sword and we know he's a pathological liar.

[Sharaman]

Side note. It's weird how easily Tam was bested on winter night. He wasn't out of commission too long, you'd think that at that level Sword fighting would be like riding a bike. Also, it's strange that he gave up sword fighting when he got back home. I imagine that to get to that level you have to enjoy it, so why not do it for fun/ relaxation.

He killed 4 or 5 trollocs in a scrap against 10-1 or worse odds and got out alive, though wounded, after taking a 20-year sabbatical from the forms. That is not how one would define "easily bested". 

[Mr Ares]

Wait... Are you sure it was a bubble of evil??

Yes. Check the Glossary entry for Daved Hanlon, book 8 onwards. It confirms the camp was destroyed by a Bubble of Evil.

 

(Masshadar/Maichin Shin=Same Thing)

One is a glowing fog that eats people, the other is a wind that might eat people, but also eats souls. Your body can survive an encounter with Machin Shin, it won't survive an encounter with Mashadar. Also, one is in the Ways, the other is in SL.

 

whos the only Forsaken Blademaster that has be stated?!@!@

None of them. The institute of Blademastery as exists in the Third Age didn't exist during the War of the Power (and Heron Mark swords signified officers, not any particular level of skill. Lan's sword, from a common soldier, is thus a Power-wrought but not Heron marked sword). Be'lal is described as a master of the sword, as is Sammael, but unless they killed a Blademaster or convinced five Blademasters they were good enough, they are not truly Blademasters, even if they have an equivalent level of skill.

 

Hey, i'm not trying to offend you, and i'm sorry if it came out that way. We just have a difference of opinion on the subject.

No. Your facts are wrong. There's a difference.

 

I may well be crazy, but I would swear that I remember someone in the later books expressing horror over the fact that Masshadar was NO longer Bound and could now travel at will.

You're crazy, that never happened.

 

We are also told early in the series that Maichin Shin/Masshadar is the only weird air-thingy.

No, we're not.

[Dert]

 

Well there was that Seanchan blademaster that Rand killed in book 2, so there is possibly quite a few living ones.

[Vulgir]

Ares, your are a vast fountain of knowlege. I was mistaken in thinking Bel'al was a Blademaster, becasue of the comment that he made about mastering swords with LTT. Good catch sir, good catch.

[chill]

oh man, the posts between Fisher and Ares just had me laugh out loud in several places.

 

back on topic, i also suspect that there are hundreds of blademasters.  i mean if you need a council of 5 blademasters, that implies there are definitely more than just the named character blademasters that we know.  plus there are millions of soldiers in randland.  and rand became a blademaster in like 1-2 years?  tam became a blademaster starting off as a farmer then soldier of fortune.  it really doesn't seem to be THAT difficult to become one.

 

and if you become a blademaster if you kill a blademaster... assuming that blademasters live by the sword/die by the sword, think of the chaining of blademasters that would create throughout history.  every old blademaster would be succeeded by a new guy that just killed him, while new blademasters would be formed through the council, etc. etc.

 

definitely hundreds of blademasters.  think about how Rand was acknowledged as a BM in the rebel camp, Darlin looked at Rand with newfound respect but he didn't really bat an eyelash.  there are probably more BM than aes sedai

[The Fisher King]

When I have the time, I promise I will find the book and page numbers, but, there ***IS*** a part later in the series where this is mentioned about it no longer possibly being bound.

 

You can bet a few coppers on that one.

 

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Haven't found it yet, but something about the scene I am thinking of is tickling my brain regarding the Ogier and specifically Elder Haman and maybe him being horrified at the mere thought of it.

 

 

 

Fish

[HighLordXanthus]

Eamon Valda was a blade master, or atleast had a heron marked blade with him when Omerna killed Pedron Niall.  Galad besting him is what gives him the right of blade master as well as the blade.