Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[kari-no-sugata]

Cadsuane is pretty sure that the "three" are indeed the two women and one man needed to safely use Callandor. This would be Rand and two other women. I'm further guessing that this will be key to beating the Dark One (and I even suspect the mechanics of how it will happen, but... meh) and that one of the two women will be Alivia.

 

I think Alivia and Nynaeve. They've both strong in the One Power, which helps, and he trusts them.

 

 

The game will be changed.

 

RJ said the greatest gift to (real) human history was moving beyond the idea that time is cyclical. I don't hold the idea that the turning of "the Wheel" can only be broken by a Dark One victory..

 

Hmm, interesting.

 

Maybe within the series "The Wheel" is actually a false concept in the first place? We know that channelers can't do something they think is impossible, so if they have an incorrect assumption about "the big picture" in the first place, then they wouldn't be able to do certain things. Maybe "there is no Wheel". Well, just a random thought that occurred to me when reading the above.

[Demon_AS]

I think the 3 become 1 prophecy refers to Rand/LTT/the Dragon, and I think it has already come to pass.

 

He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one

Page 742

 

Through his eyelids, he could sense the blazing light of the access key.  The power he held inside dwarfed that light.  He was the sun.  He was fire...

Rand raised his arms high, a conduit of power and energy

Page 759

 

Then, a bit later,

It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything.  He saw the entire wold in his mind's eye, lit by the glow of his hand.  He remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity.  He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope

 

and finally...

And Rand opened his eyes for the first time in a very long while.  He knew -somehow- that he would never again hear Lews Therin's voice in his head.  For they were not two men

 

First, the imagery of him with the light of the power through him, with his hands together above his head to me is the blade of light.  Maybe not blade in a literal sense, but as far as an instrument of destruction.  Rand is holding this blade of light, when he and Lews Therin finally become one person.  This, to me, just fits perfectly.

 

I admitt the part about the third person is a little vague, but the quote about the thousands of lives makes me think that the Dragon was not Lews Therin, it was not Rand Al'Thor.  They were only a part of the Dragon.  The Dragon is the champion of light, and has been through hundreds of lives.  Now Rand realizes that.  Now he can truly be the champion that is needed.

It's a nice idea, but it doesn't seem plausible. It doesn't have the "ring" of a prophecy being fulfilled.

 

As has been previously stated, when prophecies get fulfilled, they tend to happen in a way that leaves no doubt as to what has happened. I refer you to the whole branding with herons and dragons - no one had any idea what the dragons were until TSR when Rhuarc shows his forearm. So, I think when this whole three become one + blade of light prophecy is fulfilled, it'll happen in a very obvious sort of way. It sounds like the sort of scene in which the author would make it very clear what was happening :).

[fader6818]

I think Alivia and Nynaeve. They've both strong in the One Power, which helps, and he trusts them.

 

I have a FEW other candidates in mind there. Min sees that Alivia will "help him die"; perhaps this uber-link will unify the True Source, melding them into a Light True Power. Maybe not, but I'm thinking something on the massive, boulder in the pond scale like that. Perhaps this unified force will be contained within this link, like a living Eye of the World, and THIS will be used to blast the Dark One. Perhaps the Dark One's backlash will then kill Rand and the two women.

 

I'm not a firm believer in that happening exactly, but something big and deadly. Alivia would help Rand die, Rand would die, but what of the third woman?

 

Nynaeve lives to see Lan die and mourn him. We've not SEEN that she's going to help Rand die, or die with him. But there IS another candidate female channeler I think MIGHT be in this triumvirate with Rand and Alivia; someone who has as much to gain or as little to lose going into it.

 

Alana.

 

Nynaeve is too obvious, and has been used as that "I trust her and she's really really powerful" role. I think Alana's role is yet to be seen, especially now that Rand can recall laughter.

[kevin-nivek]

I'm fairly certain that one way or another rand will KILL the dark one. The champion of the light has resealed the dark one countless times throughout history, so there must be some reason why the books are about this particular time. If the dark ones been sealed countless times before, and will be sealed countless times in the future then it makes rands struggle seem less important, plus the dark one dying would prove moridin wrong in that the wheel can change.

Wheels do move forward as they turn

[clu7ch]

Cadsuane is pretty sure that the "three" are indeed the two women and one man needed to safely use Callandor. This would be Rand and two other women. I'm further guessing that this will be key to beating the Dark One (and I even suspect the mechanics of how it will happen, but... meh) and that one of the two women will be Alivia.

 

I think Alivia and Nynaeve. They've both strong in the One Power, which helps, and he trusts them.

 

 

The game will be changed.

 

RJ said the greatest gift to (real) human history was moving beyond the idea that time is cyclical. I don't hold the idea that the turning of "the Wheel" can only be broken by a Dark One victory..

 

Hmm, interesting.

 

Maybe within the series "The Wheel" is actually a false concept in the first place? We know that channelers can't do something they think is impossible, so if they have an incorrect assumption about "the big picture" in the first place, then they wouldn't be able to do certain things. Maybe "there is no Wheel". Well, just a random thought that occurred to me when reading the above.

 

This is the most interesting idea I've seen all day. What if the wheel is a false concept? What if all the people of the world are the threads spinning around the axle, the ta'veren?

 

If's and possibilities are our realm though, only certainty comes from Robert Jordan and now Sanderson.

 

There is a quote from a earlier book that gets to me however. when moridin opened a gateway and 'stepped outside the pattern' what was that referring to?

[benr]

That was how travelling works using the TP.

 

The breaking the wheel theory to linear time has been heavily discussed for some time.  I like it; many don't.  Rand seemed to be coming close to it on top of Dragonmount before he saw the "light".

[kevin-nivek]

Anyone think rand will actually have the combined memories of all his life times, or just his and lews therins with maybe a dim recollection of others.

I mean if he had the memories of thousands of successful dragons, not just lews therin (who failed) then alot of the stories tension disappears.

 

[fader6818]

Anyone think rand will actually have the combined memories of all his life times, or just his and lews therins with maybe a dim recollection of others.

 

I might have to re-read that chapter carefully.

 

When I read it, I got the impression that Rand was seeing a bird's eye view of the world and the thousands of lives in the world, each one loving, hoping, caring et cetera.

 

I didn't get the impression that he was seeing each of his PAST lives. Maybe I misread.

[kevin-nivek]

maybe, but he said he REMEMBERED all these lives

[Ahrcsnave]

I was listening to this song this weekend, and I couldn't help but be reminded of Rand's storyline, weird coincidence...

 

Come into this night

Here we'll be gone

So far away

From our weak and crumbling lives

Come into this night

When days are done

Lost and astray

In what's vanished from your eyes

What came and distorted your sight

Saw you benighted by your fright

 

Come into this night

Your plight alone

Carry your weight

You are flawed as all of us

Come into this night

You only home

It's never too late

To repent, suffer the loss

 

What came and distorted your sight

Saw you benighted by your fright

 

What came and distorted your sight

Saw you benighted by your fright

 

Come into this night

When you're able

To undo your deeds

And atone with your lonely soul

Once you're into this night

All minds are stable

Forget all your needs

Lose the grip of all control

[Braus]

So anyone who got a clue of how long TGS was? And how soon Elayne will birth? Is it gonna be soon, or is it still a few months to go. TGS felt very jumpish sometime, havent gotten the timeline straight yet >.<

[lbeefus]

Maybe within the series "The Wheel" is actually a false concept in the first place? We know that channelers can't do something they think is impossible, so if they have an incorrect assumption about "the big picture" in the first place, then they wouldn't be able to do certain things. Maybe "there is no Wheel". Well, just a random thought that occurred to me when reading the above.

 

My problem with that is that the presumably-omnipotent narrator tales us that the wheel weaves as the wheel will... etc.  So while I'm sure many of the characters misinterpret the concept, it seems that there IS a wheel.  Plus, its the title of the series, so it'd be an odd epiphany. ;)

[Nathan]

Maybe within the series "The Wheel" is actually a false concept in the first place? We know that channelers can't do something they think is impossible, so if they have an incorrect assumption about "the big picture" in the first place, then they wouldn't be able to do certain things. Maybe "there is no Wheel". Well, just a random thought that occurred to me when reading the above.

 

My problem with that is that the presumably-omnipotent narrator tales us that the wheel weaves as the wheel will... etc.  So while I'm sure many of the characters misinterpret the concept, it seems that there IS a wheel.  Plus, its the title of the series, so it'd be an odd epiphany. ;)

 

I agree. I'm hopeful that Rand will kill or otherwise deal with the Dark One in a permanent fashion (because otherwise, as said above, there's nothing special about his particular incarnation) but just because he managed to accomplish something that he didn't in any of his past lives doesn't mean that the wheel is broken, it's just moving forward. Rebirths can still continue, but the Dark One can be finally defeated.

[karehiro]

Indeed.  I wouldn't be surprised if Rand did find a way to destroy or permanently beat the DO for good in order to distinguish this incarnation.

 

The problem is that I can see the birth of a new evil after the Dark One which future Ages will have to face (i.e: Fain or Moridin)

[coteaz]

Yes i agree, because in turnings of the wheel there will need to be a 'dark one' for them to fight.

[Astus]

I can't see him "killing" the Dark One per se. It's just that I view the DO as an entity completely beyond mortal understanding. Akin to that of a God, but not. Immortal in a sense.

Maybe sealing him away with a super duper glue or the like. Maybe I'm not being open minded enough.

Heck, I wouldn't mind if it happened but I can't see it. It seems to me like a man trying to tip over Everest with an axe. 

[tneva82]

Indeed.  I wouldn't be surprised if Rand did find a way to destroy or permanently beat the DO for good in order to distinguish this incarnation.

 

The problem is that I can see the birth of a new evil after the Dark One which future Ages will have to face (i.e: Fain or Moridin)

 

Why should there be distinguishing this incarnation?

 

Would be pretty strange to break the whole mythos of the serie at this point.

[coteaz]

I could see the Dark one being destroyed and then fain or moridin take his place and become a new dark one, thus keeping the wheel turning with a evil to fight again in the next AOL and last battle.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

I can't see him "killing" the Dark One per se. It's just that I view the DO as an entity completely beyond mortal understanding. Akin to that of a God, but not. Immortal in a sense.

Maybe sealing him away with a super duper glue or the like. Maybe I'm not being open minded enough.

Heck, I wouldn't mind if it happened but I can't see it. It seems to me like a man trying to tip over Everest with an axe. 

 

Yup i feel the same way.I feel that Do wont even make an appearance in TG..Prob be Shaidar Haran or Moridin will have the final fight with Rand and then he will somehow re-seal the bore

[karehiro]

Indeed.  I wouldn't be surprised if Rand did find a way to destroy or permanently beat the DO for good in order to distinguish this incarnation.

 

The problem is that I can see the birth of a new evil after the Dark One which future Ages will have to face (i.e: Fain or Moridin)

 

Why should there be distinguishing this incarnation?

 

Would be pretty strange to break the whole mythos of the serie at this point.

 

Because Rand discovered the reason why he, the Dragon fought and lived, was so that he'd have the chance to fix his mistakes (along with being able to find her), finding a way to do things right.  Finding a way to truly beat the Dark One counts as that.  Plus the possibility was raised this book that it could happen; if that's not the case then Moridin is right in that the Dark One will eventually win, which I doubt.

[Lews_Windu]

You know, it could be that in every Third Age, The Dragon Reborn outright kills the Dark One- and then over time a new one is born and festers within the Pattern. Keep in mind that the Forsaken were sealed up as well, showing that mortals can indeed be thrown in. One wonders would happen if Fain was locked in for 50,000 years, alone.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

The dark one can not cease to be, it is like trying to get rid of your shadow in adulation of the sun.

 

Madness.

[coteaz]

well for the wheel to turn back to the second age (AOL) to the third age, it would be reasonable to assume that it may be less than 50,000 years, or more. Although wouldn't that make people go hmmm... so nothing i do matters in the slightest? seeing as it will be all done again and again and again.

[EnderWarrior]

A idea on Rand Using the TP to seal the DO i defineitly think this will happen. Many say it cant becuase you access the TP from the DO. But me presenolly think that rand acess the TP through Mordin since they are connected and he can sence it through the other

 

I dont think it was the DO intention to have Rand draw that power i think he just wanted to have semi mak ehim kill Min and cuase him pain remember in the begining how they said to cuase him pain not to kill him

[tneva82]

well for the wheel to turn back to the second age (AOL) to the third age, it would be reasonable to assume that it may be less than 50,000 years, or more. Although wouldn't that make people go hmmm... so nothing i do matters in the slightest? seeing as it will be all done again and again and again.

 

Well. People are wondering that in our world as well. No big difference then if they are wondering in Randland. And heck Rand himself thought about that in the end of the book ;-)

 

Wheel turning around doesn't make our life any more meaningless(or meaningful) as wheel not turning. If you really think about what does YOUR actions matter? In 10000 years nobody remembers you or me. Folks like Barack Obama, Einstein etc might be some minor foot notes in histories but that's it. Billions and billions years from now it matters even less as universum will be just lifeless place without energy. As it is in Randland actions matters more as actions ends up legends until they are done again forever. Not like in our universum when eventually everything will just end with no life whatsoever anywhere.