Unfinished buisess

[Bob T Dwarf]

There are several.

 

The BWB is one. Graendal or Semirhage may have an idle thought about some of the others as well, don't remember, off-hand.

 

Jordan talks about others in his QoTW's.

 

There were at least 31. The DO itself killed 12 of them for suspected treason. Some were outside the Bore at the time of the Sealing. Those died in obscurity during or after the Breaking, and are no longer remembered at all.

[Ilyena]

Yah, i definately read that only the most powerful were meeting in the Bore when it was sealed.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Week 12 Question: In Winters Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the 13 survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

 

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current"Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

 

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

 

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male AesSedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

[Luckers]

Thanks Bob--and i think it can be drawn from that that it would be possible to have weaker channelers as Forsaken--not too weak, but Only Suine, Moiraine, Elaida and Cads was stronger then Alviarin according to Verin.

[Jellybelly]

Well, there is also the aspect of the Dark One bringing back to life his Chosen because they are stronger and more knowledgeable, and as such more useful than his current Age followers. RJ touched upon this in a qotw-session. I would take this to mean that the Dark One does not particularly need very weak channelers (by comparison) in his higher councils, unless they have other qualities to make up for it. I do not think there are many who has these qualities. Isam may be one.

[Luckers]

And indeed, Alviarin was only given a weaker version of the Chosen Mark, but Taim on the other hand, who is only slightly weaker then Rand and Ishy and therefore right up there...

[Bob T Dwarf]

Alviarin was given a mark that is the equivalent of an ownership tattoo. She is marked as Shaidar Haran's property.

[Luckers]

Yes, thank you, because i didn't know that. :roll:

[Dionysus]

If the Dark one can bring people back to life, what is stopping him from bringing back all of his followers from the AoL?

[Guest Majsju]

If the Dark one can bring people back to life' date=' what is stopping him from bringing back all of his followers from the AoL?[/quote']

 

There's only a limited timeframe where he can snatch a soul to put it in a new body.

[Ilyena]

And I'm gonna assume that some were Balefired into obvlivian before the truce.

[Jellybelly]

What truce?

 

And when we are talking about people dead three thousand years, the way the died does not matter.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Quote "Moirane, is a big one. As Min Predicted, if she is not there at or before the last battle, Rand will fail. 2 points: what will happen to Lan's bond if Moirane comes back, and Will Lanfear come back with her? " Unquote

 

I agree with the Moiraine thing, but with respect to Lanfear, well she died and was reincarnated as Cyndane, so she has already come back as one of Moridins toys

[grump]

I always thought that cyndane came back weaker and in a new body because that was the price the finns had her pay to be realeased at all amd Moraine is still there because she won't do a deal and believes Mat will come for her.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It has been my impression that Cyndane is weaker than she was as Lanfear because she was burned out when the ter'angreal melted, (which is what allowed the Eelfinn to hold her captive), then killed by the Eelfinn, transmigrated into a new body by the Dark One, and was Healed by a woman to be able to channel again, but like Siuan and Leane, she is weaker than she was.

 

Since as a corrolary to that, Moiraine would also have been burned out by the ter'angreal, its my opinion that she is unable to escape because she cannot channel.

[Luckers]

Agreed.

[DemandredFO]

Why would Moraine have been burned out? Lanfear may have been burned out because when Moraine ripped the angreal braclet off her, she was then holding more of the power then you can unaided.

[cloglord]

For once, I agree with Luckers and Alex Willis. I always assumed that Lanfear was burned out, died, was ressurected, and healed by a BA Salidar sister.

 

I think that the fact that Lanfear no longer held the angreal would explain why one would be stilled and not the other, either by causing Lanfear to hold more than she would be able to unaided, or by the buffer against such things, protecting Moraine from the effects of the doorway melting. However, it should be noted that we do not know that Moraine was not stilled as well.

[Mat is the Boss]

You don`t have to physically touch an angreal to use it. Remember that Rand and Nyaneve sat down and put the Choedan Kal on the ground in front of them when they were cleansing saidin.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Why would Moraine have been burned out?

 

They were both right next to ... inded, they passed through ... a ter'angreal that melted itself into slag. How many times have various channelers warned that you can be burned out by screwing the wrong way with ter'angreal? Besides, if Moiraine could still channel, her bond to Lan wouldn't have been broken/transferred.

[rd2000]

Moiraine seized Saidar just before she launched herself at Lanfear. She had time before she went through to pass the bond.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The bond wasn't passed in the normal sense. Noramal passing of the bond does not cause the "living death" we see in Lan, and he would be able to feel the difference. What Moiraine did, before any of this happen, was alter her bond so that if it was broken, it would automatically jump to Myrelle. She did it in anticipation of her death, but being burned out is an equivalent change, as far as the bond is concerned.

[rd2000]

Let's see, she knew she was going thru the doorway with Lanfear. She knew that by embraced Saidar she would be stilled/burned-out. The only reason I can see for her doing that was to simulate her death to Lan, and the passing of the bond. Otherwise she would not have embraced Saidar, knowing the effects afterward. I can't see any Aes Sedai willingly allowing herself to be burned-out when she can avoid it. Unless it is to save the life of her Warder.

[cloglord]

She knew no such thing, we know no such thing. On what basis to do claim that Moraine knew that she was going to be burned out, let alone that she has been burned out?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I can't see any Aes Sedai willingly allowing herself to be burned-out when she can avoid it. Unless it is to save the life of her Warder.

 

Or unless, for Moiraine, it was what was necessary to save to Dragon Reborn, a goal for which she has repeatedly said she would give up anything.