Whats the one story line you most want to see in this book.

[Shard]

When do we finally see Rand get turned to the Dark (One's) side?  Soon, I hope.  I'd really like to see Rand's inner Dark One come out...

 

If that happens, then it would ruin these last three books for me.

 

But what if suddenly Mat can channel, and he takes over as Dragon Reborn because apparently they were wrong the whole time and it was Mat? Wouldnt that save it?

 

No, in fact have you heard the term "Jump the Shark"? That would definatly apply here. Mat is a non-channeler, he would have known by now. Were already long past the point of proving Rand is the Dragon Reborn.

 

Now I admit that I have a personal crazy theory that Mat is the Caramoor but I would never say he was the DR.

[Vambram]

No, in fact have you heard the term "Jump the Shark"? That would definatly apply here. Mat is a non-channeler, he would have known by now. Were already long past the point of proving Rand is the Dragon Reborn.

 

Agreed, completely.

 

Now I admit that I have a personal crazy theory that Mat is the Caramoor but I would never say he was the DR.

 

An intriguing theory, Shard. I would be interested in reading it if you would start a new thread discussing this idea.

[OptimusPrime]

When do we finally see Rand get turned to the Dark (One's) side?  Soon, I hope.  I'd really like to see Rand's inner Dark One come out...

 

If that happens, then it would ruin these last three books for me.

 

But wouldnt it be good if they did turn him, even if he was only turned for half a scene, before it being undone?

[Vambram]

But wouldnt it be good if they did turn him, even if he was only turned for half a scene, before it being undone?

 

To me, no it would not. To me, it would basically ruin the series.

[Shard]

Rand is already getting dark enough as is, things may even be worse in TGS we just don't know yet. I rather like Caddy's take on the situation that if Rand stayed the way it was it wouldn't matter if they had defeated the Shadow or not. It gives the problem shades of grey that not everything that is "evil" falls under the command of the Shadow like Shadar Logoth and the Finns.

 

Actually looking on the faq and the Jendai prophecy pretty much does say it's Rand. It just feels like Mat takes more charge in his Bargain then Rand does with his.

[draconian]

Rand is already getting dark enough as is, things may even be worse in TGS we just don't know yet. I rather like Caddy's take on the situation that if Rand stayed the way it was it wouldn't matter if they had defeated the Shadow or not. It gives the problem shades of grey that not everything that is "evil" falls under the command of the Shadow like Shadar Logoth and the Finns.

do u mean

if he wins and lives as he is he would rule for a finite time then die so nothing an "evil" rand could do would be = to DO getting free and if he win no1 nds to worry about that

so it cant be what he does after imo

i think caddy was making a veiled reference to a cost of victory worse then lews therin cost of victory as in kill the DO and actually destroy the world or almost all life or something really bad

but i think she obver states it death is preferable to slavery to the DO

[Shard]

Rand is already getting dark enough as is, things may even be worse in TGS we just don't know yet. I rather like Caddy's take on the situation that if Rand stayed the way it was it wouldn't matter if they had defeated the Shadow or not. It gives the problem shades of grey that not everything that is "evil" falls under the command of the Shadow like Shadar Logoth and the Finns.

do u mean

if he wins and lives as he is he would rule for a finite time then die so nothing an "evil" rand could do would be = to DO getting free and if he win no1 nds to worry about that

so it cant be what he does after imo

i think caddy was making a veiled reference to a cost of victory worse then lews therin cost of victory as in kill the DO and actually destroy the world or almost all life or something really bad

but i think she obver states it death is preferable to slavery to the DO

 

Can you please rephrase that using proper English? Basically Caddy is worried that Rand is going evil on his own and that if he wins he, Rand, may be just as bad as the DO.

[OptimusPrime]

Rand is already getting dark enough as is, things may even be worse in TGS we just don't know yet. I rather like Caddy's take on the situation that if Rand stayed the way it was it wouldn't matter if they had defeated the Shadow or not. It gives the problem shades of grey that not everything that is "evil" falls under the command of the Shadow like Shadar Logoth and the Finns.

 

 

 

But the good thing about Rand being turned would be if he wasn't different. Think how big an impact THAT would have on his entourages morale. Maybe Moiraines return could happen just in time to make him turn back before he destroys, and it would also fit in with the potentially-Ta'veren twist that being turned to the Shadow wouldnt make him any harder to turn back, because events just so happened to have made him that way yet with something significant like Moiraines waiting round the corner.

 

I admit its not gonna happen though, but I think it could be pulled off, providing it was an original plot with enough notes to stay RJ.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

 

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

[Shard]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

 

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

 

Well since you have refused to present any evidence and we have I'd say the theory is on very shaky ground.

 

In fact to revisit the scene where Demandred visits the DO. The DO not only states that Rhavin and Asmo have died the Final Death but leaves out any mention of the other missing Forsake, aka Lanfear. I think it is in fact safe to infer that by Rahvin dying the final death he is refering to the Balefire Rand used. By this logic Asmo was also Balefired as well, so no coming back for him period.

 

I think the DO stated the fates of Rhavin and Asmo to Demandred as object lessons and here's a quote about that kind of thing straight from RJ:

 

Week 15 Question: What does the Dark One view as the worst punishment he can inflict on his minions: Killing them as painfully as possible? Balefire? Mindtrap? Being continually resurrected to suffer at his hand for eternity? Something we haven't seen yet?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation. Simple failure and outright betrayal might be punished equally, or one might result in death and the other in becoming an object lesson or in something else. (The mindtrap, by the way, could be called an object lesson only to the one so trapped; remember, none of the Forsaken know who is mindtrapped except Moridin and those who are trapped.) The decision, death or object lesson or something else, normally would be simply a matter of whether or not he believed there was any point to an object lesson and/or whether or not he felt there was really any further use in the individual. Or, for that matter, made for reasons unknowable to a human mind. Remember, the Dark One is NOT human and thinking of him in human terms just doesn't work.

 

But he also operates under a constraint that did not exist in the Age of Legends. At that time, about 3% of the population could learn to channel to some extent, though not all chose to -- the training program took time, and being able to channel carried with it certain obligations that not everyone wanted to undertake -- but that still meant there were, at a minimum, hundreds of thousands of people in the world who could channel, and more likely millions. A large pool of possible recruits. Break a tool or decide it isn't working right and throw it out, because there is an endless supply of similar tools waiting on the shelf. That might be said to have been his attitude. In the here-and-now of the books, that figure is about 1%, and of that 1%, very, very few have any idea that they could learn to channel, much less have any training at all. Here-and-now, the pool of possible recruits is tiny.

 

Also, while the Forsaken themselves have realized that these primitives have discovered how to do things with the Power that they themselves cannot, or perhaps can once they learn how but never dreamed of doing until they found that the weaves existed here-and-now, they still think of people in the here-and-now as primitives, and their attitudes filter through to the Dark One, who believes that his people from the age of Legends are in all practical ways better -- for which read better trained, more capable, and thus better able to serve him efficiently and effectively -- than the people of the present time. And he is right. In a way. They are certainly better trained, with a much wider knowledge, at least in some areas. Some of their skills are absolutely useless in the society they are forced to live in. Aginor was a genius in biology and genetics, but in this world, he had no way to make the tools to make the tools to make the tools…. Well, you get the idea. Pity the poor chip designer dropped into the seventeenth century.

 

In any event, the Dark One tries to conserve his resources, using and reusing those he might have killed himself, or ordered killed, in a time where there were thousands to equal them.

 

He pointed out that Asmo and Rhavin's pride is what caused their deaths and I think that was a lesson to Demandred for the same not to happen. He doesn't mention Lanfear at all to Demandred, as we see later on she is brought back the same way Ishy, Aginor and Balthmel are.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

 

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

 

Zaphod remember I beat your argument and the only thing you could respond with was avoiding it, and then finally a ::). So... Yeah. You have no evidence, you have speculation. I have evidence. I have quotes. You are wrong.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

And that was my Mr. Ares impression there at the end, hope u liked it :P.

[DemandredFO]

That quote is one of the reasons I believe Be'lal is still alive.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

That quote is one of the reasons I believe Be'lal is still alive.

 

I'm sorry, but thats even worse than the Asmodean=Taim idea. Be'lal was balefired, on screen, by Moiraine. She came out of nowhere and balefired him, killing him.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

 

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

 

Zaphod remember I beat your argument and the only thing you could respond with was avoiding it, and then finally a ::). So... Yeah. You have no evidence, you have speculation. I have evidence. I have quotes. You are wrong.

Let me get this straight.  You guys say a bunch of nonsense to prove your points.  You ignore everything I have said and I shot down all of your evidence, which you cannot provide the back up for.  I think you talk big because you do not want anyone else to read your failure.

[Dmitri]

Let me get this straight.  You guys say a bunch of nonsense to prove your points.  You ignore everything I have said and I shot down all of your evidence, which you cannot provide the back up for.  I think you talk big because you do not want anyone else to read your failure.

 

Wow!..

 

How a man can see the situation in such exact opposition to reality...  ???

 

 

[Mr Ares]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

Or, if you can't be bothered, allow me to summarise:

Zaphod Beeblebrox: Asmo is Taim.

Everyone else: Do you have any evidence to support that?

ZB: Ignores, or posts something irrelevant.

 

And that was my Mr. Ares impression there at the end, hope u liked it :P.

Well, it was alright for a first attempt.

 

Let me get this straight. You guys say a bunch of nonsense to prove your points. You ignore everything I have said and I shot down all of your evidence, which you cannot provide the back up for. I think you talk big because you do not want anyone else to read your failure.

I don't think you have it straight quite yet. You have no quotes, nothing from the books, nothing, not one word, nothing at all, to suggest that Taim is anyone other than who he claims to be, Mazrim Taim, let alone Asmodean. Taim is Taim is Taim.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

There's a theory that Asmo is Taim?

With one supporter, and no evidence.

 

As the one supporter, I invite everyone to read the whole discussion and see who has the evidence and who only thinks they do.

 

Zaphod remember I beat your argument and the only thing you could respond with was avoiding it, and then finally a ::). So... Yeah. You have no evidence, you have speculation. I have evidence. I have quotes. You are wrong.

Let me get this straight.  You guys say a bunch of nonsense to prove your points.  You ignore everything I have said and I shot down all of your evidence, which you cannot provide the back up for.  I think you talk big because you do not want anyone else to read your failure.

 

Zaphod are you high or just stupid? >.> Shoulda listened to Hybrid, you are a troll.