When will it End?

[arkinia]

So we all know Tarmon Gai'don is coming and a lot of important characters are finally going to meet their destinies and stuff like that, but the book obviously isn't going to close with the Dark One's last words(I would think). So the question is how long do you think the story will go after the Last Battle is over? Will it go on to tell us how each faction reacts and deals with these world changing events? Will everyone stay united or will they all break apart and how far do you think this will be elaborated on? What do you think!

[mb]

If Rand does not come back after Tarmon Gaidon, birth/births of his children might be the last in-depth event of the last book.

If Rand does come back, either the birth/births or an ascension of him might be the last in-depth event.

Either way, the last book would probably end with a short summary of the rest of the countries.

 

[arkinia]

I think his children have to be born before the Last Battle. If they were not I would not like that. I think it's pretty clear that Rand is going to die, or it is made to make you think so. I think it would be interesting reading how everyone goes on to live without Rand and what the world becomes after the Dragon Reborn has done his part.

[Chance]

At some point the song has to be found, and sung again. It reminds me of Rand going through Rhudian, the Ogier and Aiel are singing with the Nym dancing, and afterward the soldierman tells them that Lews Theran and the companions struck Shayol Guhl and closed the bore. The war was over, the Ogier and Aiel still had three more towns on the circuit to sing for.

 

To end with the song; rather melodramatic, but it would fit.

[Shard]

I think that in the Epilogue we will get a glimpse of a large passage of time, maybe even a little into the next age. Mostly to the purpose of showing how the story will be twisted and changed over all the years.

[mb]

I think his children have to be born before the Last Battle. If they were not I would not like that. I think it's pretty clear that Rand is going to die, or it is made to make you think so.

 

Rand's children have to be born before Tarmon Gaidon?

There is nothing that says that.

The ones through Elayne might be.  The ones through Aviendha, unlikely since Aviendha is yet to get pregnant.

 

Rand is prophesied to die, though there is a chance he might become resurrected.

 

[arkinia]

[angry]SORRY MB I DIDNT HAVE A QUOTE TO CITE TO ENSURE THAT HIS CHILDREN WOULD BE BORN. ITS ONLY THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN AS I THINK I SAID IN MY POST, MAYBE IT WASNT CLEAR ENOUGH. IT JUST WOULDNT MAKE SENSE IF MIN HAS A VIEWING TO GET YOU ALL EXCITED FOR KIDS AND THEN YOU JUST FORGOT THE REST OF THE JIG AFTER THEY GET PREGNANT. I MEAN MAYBE OVER 2500 PAGES ISNT ENOUGH TO HAVE THAT HAPPEN, TARMON GAI'DON MUST BEGIN ON PAGE ONE OF AMOL, YOU'RE RIGHT![/angry]

[42Bonzo88]

    I would like to see a few years after be shown. Do something like what J.K. Rowling did with Harry Potter.  It would be cool if a couple main characters either traveled or used (clean maybe?) gateways to various parts of Randland to see what has happened. I would hope because Rand wants so desperatly his universities to survive, that we see some things starting there that will usher in the new age.

[arkinia]

Don't mean to call you out, but wouldn't you say it would be sort of silly if they weren't born? I  mean why would they even get pregnant in the first place? I mean maybe if they were born on the last page or something, or maybe as Rand dies(lol original) there could be a hint at legacy or symbolism or something. I just have trouble imagining the children playing no role, however small a baby's might be, in the story after Rand goes through all the trouble of getting them pregnant. It would be like a whole other plot left at a loose end otherwise. What would you like to see or think should happen? However contrary to the evidence it might be.

[CUBAREY]

[iIt would be like a whole other plot left at a loose end otherwise. What would you like to see or think should happen? However contrary to the evidence it might be.][/i]

 

Well RJ did say that there would be loose ends left. However, saying that i would love if the two babies turned out to be the brother and sister tied to the Horn--maybe a reference to their exploits in the epelogue of the third book?

[zanotam]

Don't mean to call you out, but wouldn't you say it would be sort of silly if they weren't born?

 

I'm sure they will be born.  Just not before Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Literarily, they will serve as an affirmation of continuing life after the massive death of Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I  mean why would they even get pregnant in the first place?

 

Because Elayne is in love with Rand, wants his babies, and sex is fun?

 

I mean maybe if they were born on the last page or something, or maybe as Rand dies(lol original) there could be a hint at legacy or symbolism or something.

 

Such as the one I proposed above?  Although I doubt that will happen on the very last page, or be simultaneous with Rand's death and/or resurrection.  The birth of Rand and Elayne's twins will likely be one symbol among many of the continuation of life following Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I just have trouble imagining the children playing no role, however small a baby's might be, in the story after Rand goes through all the trouble of getting them pregnant.

 

I'm sure he would say it was no trouble at all.   ;)

 

It would be like a whole other plot left at a loose end otherwise.

 

Jordan did say there will be plots left unfinished, since the world doesn't tie itself up in neat little knots after great events.  But the babies will be born.  After Tarmon Gai'don.

 

What would you like to see or think should happen?

 

With the babies?  I would like to see them born healthy, but we already know that will happen.  I don't think the timing is terribly important.  What may have some limited significance is the likelihood that Elayne will be unable to channel up to and through Tarmon Gai'don.

 

However contrary to the evidence it might be.

 

What "evidence" would that be?

 

 

QFT

[arkinia]

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I  mean why would they even get pregnant in the first place?

 

Because Elayne is in love with Rand, wants his babies, and sex is fun?

I didn't ask why you would have sex, what I meant was what purpose to the story would it serve if they just got pregnant and that was the end of it.

 

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I just have trouble imagining the children playing no role, however small a baby's might be, in the story after Rand goes through all the trouble of getting them pregnant.

 

I'm sure he would say it was no trouble at all.

 

haha -.-

 

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It would be like a whole other plot left at a loose end otherwise.

 

Jordan did say there will be plots left unfinished, since the world doesn't tie itself up in neat little knots after great events.  But the babies will be born.  After Tarmon Gai'don.

Other plots being left at loose ends doesn't mean it is now okay for this plot to be left at a loose end, in my opinion. But you then say they will be born then supposedly tying up the plot which would make your previous sentance pointless![/nitpick]

 

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What would you like to see or think should happen?

 

With the babies?  I would like to see them born healthy, but we already know that will happen.  I don't think the timing is terribly important.  What may have some limited significance is the likelihood that Elayne will be unable to channel up to and through Tarmon Gai'don.

Eh, the woman's useless anyway.  :P

 

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However contrary to the evidence it might be.

 

What "evidence" would that be?

Well, apparently what I would like to see happen (the babies being born and doing something, maybe Rand could put the whole world in a Keeping and the kids can chill outside until they can wield a sword) is obviously impossible. I was just wondering if there was anything you'd like to see expanded on that, according to book length, prophecies, what have you, just won't happen.

 

It's sort of depressing, TWoT could go on forever with interesting stories, but the end is becoming clearer everyday. [/weep]

[Neemo]

i think that they will go back to the shire and fight sauroman

[Bob T Dwarf]

My own personal belief, as stated some time back, is that since the series began with Lews Therin Telamon, it will end with Lews Therin Telamon.  ( see some ancient threads on the how of that )

 

Just because the DO gets defeated doesn't mean that the world will automagically become all sunshine and roses. Old distrusts and suspicious will re-emerge.  New hatreds will arise.  We'll get a glimpse of that before the series ends.

 

My own suspicion is that Padan Fain will survive, becoming the new nexus of evil in a Post-DO world.

 

In short, life will continue as "normal", just with somewhat less earth shattering overtones.

[water_seeker]

My own suspicion is that Padan Fain will survive, becoming the new nexus of evil in a Post-DO world.

 

I said pretty much the same thing years ago and got crucified for it.  Nobody gave any legitimate proof to the contrary.

[Master Norry]

My theory is that it will be something like Star Wars: everyone thinks Rand (Anakin) is going to be the saviour of mankind, and then his kids (Luke) actually turn out to be the big heroes. Therefor I think the babes will have to be born before... It still doesn't make much sense though. I totally agree that the babies have to be there for some reason, but that doesn't explain how some week-old baby is gonna make a difference..

[Luzburg]

I had this idea that Rand gets Aviendha pregnant just before he dies and ends up being reborn as his own child. What do you think? Strange enough for what Min sensed from her babies?

[Mr Ares]

My theory is that it will be something like Star Wars: everyone thinks Rand (Anakin) is going to be the saviour of mankind, and then his kids (Luke) actually turn out to be the big heroes.

Anakin was the prophesied one who brought balance to the Force. He wiped out the Jedi, and then the Sith.

[Builder]

I had this idea that Rand gets Aviendha pregnant just before he dies and ends up being reborn as his own child. What do you think? Strange enough for what Min sensed from her babies?

 

That would be strange and gross at the same time!

[Muad Cheade]

Pain doesn't have enough power to become the "next Dark One." The range of his ability to effect others is porportionate to how close he is to them. The Dark One can touch the entire world.

 

Elayne is everything but "useless" in aMoL. She can't channel and she's very pregnant. What she can do is help unify Andor and Cairhien. Also, unless the laws of nature don't apply to her, she will still be pregnant as of Tarmon Gaidon. There's no word on whether Min will be pregnant. Aviendha's quadruplets could be conceived before or after Tarmon Gai'don. We don't know.

 

Rand being reincarnated sounds very, very disturbing.

 

My theory is that it will be something like Star Wars: everyone thinks Rand (Anakin) is going to be the saviour of mankind, and then his kids (Luke) actually turn out to be the big heroes.

 

Tarmon Gai'don is so fastly approaching that Rand's children won't even be born by then.

[water_seeker]

Pain (Fain?) doesn't have enough power to become the "next Dark One." The range of his ability to effect others is porportionate to how close he is to them. The Dark One can touch the entire world.

 

And that right there is the argument.  There are problems with what you're saying here though.

 

1)  Where is is stated that "the range of [Fain's] ability to effect others is proportionate to how close he is to them?"  If RJ said something about this plz link and I'll concede that point.

 

2)  Fain has attributes of 2 distinct evils inside him.  According to RJ, these evils attract like opposite poles of a magnet, but when they touch they react like touching the opposite poles of your car battery.  Inside Fain though, they seem to have morphed into something different.

 

3)  Fain's powers/abilities/whateveryouwanttocallwhathedoes are new to him.  They are thus far, barely tested.  He, much like the good guys, is still learning the potential of what he can do. 

 

If I have one problem with the theory, it is that Mordeth needed a body in which to escape SL.  That would mean that Fain would have to exist within the Pattern (not outside, or apart from the Pattern like the DO).  The only way around that is if he did a "body swap" every time his physical body died or he found a way to shed the need for a physical form entirely.

[Muad Cheade]

1)  Where is is stated that "the range of [Fain's] ability to effect others is proportionate to how close he is to them?"  If RJ said something about this plz link and I'll concede that point.

 

The Wikipedia (Yes, I know it's not the most reliable source) article of Padan Fain details some of his powers. "He can corrupt people by just being in their presence; he can sense fear and tension and can tell a Darkfriend on sight. He has also developed a way to inflict pain by touch, from levels of 'merely' harmful to deadly." Those powers are only effective when Fain is near that person.

 

2)  Fain has attributes of 2 distinct evils inside him.  According to RJ, these evils attract like opposite poles of a magnet, but when they touch they react like touching the opposite poles of your car battery.  Inside Fain though, they seem to have morphed into something different.

 

You do have a very valid point. The evil of Shadar Logoth consumed souls before it was destroyed so it could be possible that Fain has that same ability. Obviously, the evil of the Dark One is very powerful in many ways too

 

3)  Fain's powers/abilities/whateveryouwanttocallwhathedoes are new to him.  They are thus far, barely tested.  He, much like the good guys, is still learning the potential of what he can do.

 

Yeah. We haven't seen Fain use that many of his "abilities." I think in aMoL, we'll see how dangerous he can be.

 

If I have one problem with the theory, it is that Mordeth needed a body in which to escape SL.  That would mean that Fain would have to exist within the Pattern (not outside, or apart from the Pattern like the DO).  The only way around that is if he did a "body swap" every time his physical body died or he found a way to shed the need for a physical form entirely.

 

Fain like all other humans exist in the Pattern but Mordeth couldn't take him over because he was already touched by the Dark One. I believe in the BWB it says that for anyone to exist outside the Pattern they will be immortal.