Hidden ajah

[Kaznen]

This is a theory I've had for several years and even mentioned a few times, and no, it isn't the "Purple Ajah" theory.

 

When the WT was founded there were 28-30 ajah heads mentioned in the BWB as representing their ajah.  There were most likely many more not mentioned and other ajahs not at these talks but joined up after the pact of the WT was made.  And while some did leave most stayed with the Tower.

 

Each of these ajahs had their own goals, focuses, and agendas but becuase of their lack of politcal power they became obsorbed by the 7 Ajahs. It is also likely that indvidaul members from lesser ajahs joined with a different Ajah then the rest of their ajah members.

 

My theory is that one of the lesser ajahs' "mission statement" was to "await the Dragon Reborn and serve him when he comes" but for obvious reasons that was an unpopular idea.  So when the 7 were froming the "Dragon ajah" decided to split up into the other Ajahs but still keep their purpose alive.  They may recruit a few members from within their Ajah but only the reds could recruit reds, greens greens and so on so they could stay undetected by the rest of the AS.

 

The reds would be in the right place to find the DR and because they knew the most about Saidin they could help him there.  The grays would serve and help him because he would need diplomats loyal to him.  The greens, he would have to fight some body at some time.  The yellows would be on hand to Heal him from those fights he got in.  The browns would sift through the info and help the reds find him, then educate him.  The whites would advise him by asking questions about his decisions to teach him wisdom.  And the blues would protect him from the WT (like Moraine eventally did).

 

So They would meet every few years or something in a deep unused room in the basements that no one ever went to.  They would pour over the Profiecnies and debate what they could mean, chronicle information they have learned and secondary profiecies, and keep well detailed notes about there discussions.  And everything was kept in the room they met in.

 

But due to their small size they would die out, they did have other duties as AS and within their Ajahs.  So, at a certain battle all the freens could have been killed, reds might have died fighting a false dragon or some man who could channel, and because of the "only recruit from within your own Ajah" rule if all the members from one Ajah died those members couldn't be replaced.

 

Finally it just came down to 1 Ajah after over 2000 years of the "hidden ajah" and those sisters could have decided to put it all to rest, sealing their meeting room.

 

Then one day a young AS named Verin Mathwin, while exploring the basements, come across this hidden depository of Dragon Lore.  that could be why she seems to know so much, she studied all the hidden ajah's papers.

[Sarayne]

That's an interesting theory. It's well thought out, but I don't think they need a whole ajah for that. It's sort of like a reverse Black ajah.

 

It's good, but I disagree.

[Builder]

Hmmmm... what about a cyan ajah?

[Thorum]

Only one problem: Rand is quite obviously the Dragon Reborn for over a year now, and they still haven't come out. IF they exist, they're quite a lousy bunch of people.

[Owners.Inc]

I think that what Cadsuane's doing, though I don't think we need another Ajah for that.

[Mr Ares]

It's good, but I disagree.

No, it isn't. It is ridiculous. We have had nothing to hint at it in a dozen books. Not even in Verin's POVs do we get anything that indicates this might be true. No secret Ajah.

[Kaznen]

It's good, but I disagree.

No, it isn't. It is ridiculous. We have had nothing to hint at it in a dozen books. Not even in Verin's POVs do we get anything that indicates this might be true. No secret Ajah.

But there is nothing to say they weren't real either.  And its last members died hundreds of years ago so that is why we haven't seen them them today.

[DemandredFO]

Mr. Ares how would you explain Verin's knowledge.  I mean she Knows that perrin and Mat are important, she knows about the hammer, without hearing Gitara's foretelling she knows when Rand is born.

[CUBAREY]

It's good, but I disagree.

No, it isn't. It is ridiculous. We have had nothing to hint at it in a dozen books. Not even in Verin's POVs do we get anything that indicates this might be true. No secret Ajah.

But there is nothing to say they weren't real either.  And its last members died hundreds of years ago so that is why we haven't seen them them today.

 

AN Ajah whose members died out several hundred years about, who noone knows anything off, and has no impact on the story? So why even bring it up.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Mr. Ares how would you explain Verin's knowledge.

 

An awful lot of what she knows could be discovered by just reading and paying attention.  But we do know of at least one source of unusual knowledge that she has, namely, Corianin Nedeal's notes.

 

I mean she Knows that perrin and Mat are important

 

Um ... just about everyone knows that.

 

she knows about the hammer

 

Thats in prophecy.

 

without hearing Gitara's foretelling she knows when Rand is born.

 

Again, she's a good investigator, and pays attention.  None of those things requires an long dead secret Ajah who left a mysterious stash.

[water_seeker]

Mr. Ares how would you explain Verin's knowledge.

 

It's so easy:

 

Verin...Veren...Ta'Veren

 

She's an offshoot of the Pattern, existing solely to make sure the Patterns ends are met.

 

That being said, I am j/k.  Plz don't think I actually believe that...

 

Verin is smart.  In tGH we see that she pays more attention to the world around her than she leads people to believe.  She doesn't need a foretelling if she can at least read the "signs of the times."

[Dark Justice]

Why have people this problem accepting Vering being so knowledgable? Why does there need to be some secret ajah, or this or that reason for Verin to know things?

 

[Casco]

There is something strange about Verin though, she knows to mutch. The hammer (and the wolfking) prophecy for example, its Seanchan prophecy (if i understand correctly) and Verin shouldnt know anything about it, at least not in the two rivers.

She started to prepeare for the Dragons arival 70 years ago, she would kill anybody who she thinks will treath him (including other AS)and she plays foolish so she can "sneak" into other AS trust. How could she know when he was about to be reborn??

I realy hope Verin isnt a black ajah, i realy like her char.

[Dark Justice]

Its not like she has killed a bunch of people. She was considering killing Cads. Not the same.

As far as I know the prophecy about the wolf king is not just a seanchan prophecy.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The hammer (and the wolfking) prophecy for example, its Seanchan prophecy (if i understand correctly) and Verin shouldnt know anything about it, at least not in the two rivers.

 

It is not a Seanchan prophecy.  It is in the Karaethon Cycle.  But pieces of the cycle have been lost to most sources in Randland but are preserved in Seanchan.  Of course, some parts of the Seanchan version are corrupted, too.

 

The Tower probably has a complete copy though, which Verin has read, and more importantly, understood (at least, understood better than most who read it).

 

How could she know when he was about to be reborn?

 

Anyone who was determined and had a good knowledge of prophecy could have ferreted that one out.

 

Verin isnt a black ajah, i realy like her char.

 

She isn't, don't worry.

 

[Kaznen]

The hammer (and the wolfking) prophecy for example, its Seanchan prophecy (if i understand correctly) and Verin shouldnt know anything about it, at least not in the two rivers.

 

It is not a Seanchan prophecy.  It is in the Karaethon Cycle.  But pieces of the cycle have been lost to most sources in Randland but are preserved in Seanchan.  Of course, some parts of the Seanchan version are corrupted, too.

 

The Tower probably has a complete copy though, which Verin has read, and more importantly, understood (at least, understood better than most who read it).

 

It's more like Perrin and Mat have never read the profiecies.  How many people do you know who has read the bible cover to cover?

 

I don't think that some parts were lost in Randland, they were always there but most people didn't sit down and study them.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It's more like Perrin and Mat have never read the profiecies.

 

True ... but relevant how?

 

How many people do you know who has read the bible cover to cover?

 

Besides me?  More than I can count conveniently.  But why would this matter?

 

I don't think that some parts were lost in Randland, they were always there but most people didn't sit down and study them.

 

One of those options does not preclude the other, Kaz ...

[Kaznen]

It's more like Perrin and Mat have never read the profiecies.

 

True ... but relevant how?

 

Because Perrin and Mat are always shocked when somehting in the KC points to them.  If they had read them they wouldn't be surprised.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Because Perrin and Mat are always shocked when somehting in the KC points to them.  If they had read them they wouldn't be surprised.

 

OK ... I didn't know that we were discussing Perrin's and Mat's surprised reactions ... I thought we were talking about how Verin knows what she knows.

[Kaznen]

Every AS has read the KC in the old tounge and several translations.  Many rulers have read it also, getting the whole KC is not a hard task, every decent library in Randland has it.  Even Tear, where owning a copy was illegal.

 

But the events stated in KC are unclear what they mean, until they have been fulfilled.  The hidden ajah members (when I said small BTW I was thinking 3 members per Ajah totaling 21 at most, the idea of serving the DR wouldn't be popular and they had to be very sure that a sister was open to the idea.) would have spent centuries studying them and build further research and dialouge based on what was discussed before (they kept very good records.

 

Their isn't any eveidence that even the mainlinge AS made a serious study of them.  If any did it would be more of a hobby because there has been other stuff that needed the WT's attention.

[Roxinos]

Every AS has read the KC in the old tounge and several translations. Many rulers have read it also, getting the whole KC is not a hard task, every decent library in Randland has it.

 

And where do you get this preconception?

[Kaznen]

In NS, tGH, tDR, tFoH, LoC, KoD, BWB.  Every book that talks about AS training.  AS are suposed to learn the Old Tounge and the KC is a pretty important document in world history.  Thom, as a court bard, learned the KC in the old tounge and can sing it (tGH).

 

If a court bard thought it was a good idea to learn it because many nobles would want to hear it for entertainment it is safe to think AS need to learn it in the course of their training.

 

That's like a priest going to the seminary and wondering if he read the bible in the course of his studies.

[RobertAlexWillis]

In NS, tGH, tDR, tFoH, LoC, KoD, BWB.  Every book that talks about AS training.

 

Quotes would be helpful.  I don't seem to recall any classes on the Old Tongue being described.

 

AS are suposed to learn the Old Tounge and the KC is a pretty important document in world history.

 

Again, the Tower probably does have the most complete copy and/or copies in Randland.  No one is disputing that.  In fact, I actually said it in Reply # 14 of this thread.

 

Thom, as a court bard, learned the KC in the old tounge and can sing it (tGH).

 

Thom has repeatedly displayed an exceptional level of knowledge, even compared to most Aes Sedai.

 

If a court bard thought it was a good idea to learn it because many nobles would want to hear it for entertainment it is safe to think AS need to learn it in the course of their training.

 

How are those two ideas in any way related?

 

That's like a priest going to the seminary and wondering if he read the bible in the course of his studies.

 

Aes Sedai aren't clergy, and the Karaethon Cycle is not a manual on using the Power.  The purposes of several of the Ajahs would touch only marginally on the subject matter of the Prophecies of the Dragon.

[Kaznen]

AS are suposed to learn the Old Tounge and the KC is a pretty important document in world history.

 

Again, the Tower probably does have the most complete copy and/or copies in Randland.  No one is disputing that.  In fact, I actually said it in Reply # 14 of this thread.

 

I wasn't arguing with you.  That was in response to what Roxinos said. 

 

The only thing I disagree with you about that subject is the ideas of fragments of the KC and the AS having the only complete copies.  I believe it is rahter easy to get a complete copy of KC if somebody wanted to own one.

[Roxinos]

...I never said that the Tower doesn't have potentially complete copies of the Karaethon Cycle.

 

What I was doubting is your preconception that "every AS has read the KC in the old tounge and several translations."

 

Which I still doubt.