Black people in WoT

[ShinyThingsGood]

I knew many of the Seanchan are black, the Sea Folk are described as dark skinned and the Aiel are light haired and eyed but are sun darkened from being in the desert.  I imagine if they didn't live in the waste their skin would be lighter but...my question is about the people from Tear.  They are described again and again as dark skinned, but I don't know if that means they are black, Indian, or more middle eastern.  What does everyone else think?

[Eleint]

I always envisioned Tairens to be Caucasian, but dark Caucasian.  Like certain Spanish and Middle Eastern sorts.

 

Basically, to me, the way cultures and peoples 'feel':

Aiel: Celtic

Andor: English

Arad Doman (and to a lesser extent Tarabon): Arabic/Middle Eastern

Cairhien: French

Malkieri: Hindi

Saldaeans: Mongols/Middle-Asian Nomads/Etc

Seafolk: African

Seanchan: All sorts, from African (Tuon) to Caucasian and everything in between

Shienarans: Japanese

Tear: Spanish/Middle Eastern

 

Other areas (Murandy, Ghealdean, etc) seem to be mixtures and not so straight-out.

[Charlz Guybon]

I knew many of the Seanchan are black, the Sea Folk are described as dark skinned and the Aiel are light haired and eyed but are sun darkened from being in the desert.  I imagine if they didn't live in the waste their skin would be lighter but...my question is about the people from Tear.  They are described again and again as dark skinned, but I don't know if that means they are black, Indian, or more middle eastern.  What does everyone else think?

I had always thought of them as having a Mediterranean/Latin American bronze coloring.

[Elgee]

Meditiranean, with Moorish influence, perhaps? There seems to be a wide spectrum of people from Tear, from blue-eyed pale (take Siuan Sanche, for instance), to "black as coal", I believe some of them are described.

 

Edit: Sorry Eleint - didn't spot your post.

 

Seafolk: African - I've always thought of them as more Indian, ranging from quite dark-skinned to quite light.

 

All that being said, I don't think RJ just took ethnicities from our world and renamed them something else in Randland.

[Builder]

I think Tairens (are those people from Tear?) are more like Italians. Italians or maybe Greek.

[CUBAREY]

I think Tairens (are those people from Tear?) are more like Italians. Italians or maybe Greek.

 

Suan sanche=Sanches or Sanchez. Tearen nobles dress like 15th century Spanish nobles. RJ once described what each nationalities sounded like Tearens had a spanish accent. Also look at the names Illianers have Greek names and ABu Dar(sp?) is similar to Rome or one of the Italian city states in the Renessaince.

 

 

Meditiranean, with Moorish influence, perhaps? There seems to be a wide spectrum of people from Tear, from blue-eyed pale (take Siuan Sanche, for instance), to "black as coal", I believe some of them are described

 

Which would fit the description of Spain in the 15th century from its Moorish South to the light skinned, light haired inhabitants of Galicia.

 

[notorious-big]

The fair skin--even the mentions of the oddity of black hair appearing is specifically Irish. And no mention of high cheekbones or any other specifically nordic traits. To me, blonde to red hair, with the occaisional black, combined with blue and green eyes and fair skin says Irish.

 

You forget the fact that the Aiel are almost unfailing described as tall--definitely a Nordic trait. The Irish...not so much known for their height. If I had to approximate a people as Irish, I would say Andor...as Elayne and Gawyn illustrate, fair skin and red hair occur there, too. Of course, the rest of Andor (like Two Rivers, with predominantly dark hair and eyes) can be seen as the rest of the British Isles, where the native Picts were smallish with dark hair and eyes (Nynaeve and Egwene?)

[CUBAREY]

The fair skin--even the mentions of the oddity of black hair appearing is specifically Irish. And no mention of high cheekbones or any other specifically nordic traits. To me, blonde to red hair, with the occaisional black, combined with blue and green eyes and fair skin says Irish.

 

You forget the fact that the Aiel are almost unfailing described as tall--definitely a Nordic trait. The Irish...not so much known for their height. If I had to approximate a people as Irish, I would say Andor...as Elayne and Gawyn illustrate, fair skin and red hair occur there, too. Of course, the rest of Andor (like Two Rivers, with predominantly dark hair and eyes) can be seen as the rest of the British Isles, where the native Picts were smallish with dark hair and eyes (Nynaeve and Egwene?)

 

Actually the only group that resembles the Ail in height is the Watutsi tribe of Africa. Nordics may be considered tall by European standards but their average height is not 6 1/2 tall for men or 5, 10ish for women.

[Beli Tsar]

Semirhage and Tuon are most assuredly black and of a far darker complexion than most in the story. As for the Sea Folk I can't agree with the African comparison. They strike me as having a more Carribean appearance. While some might argue they're one and the same considering the African heritage, there are distinct differences in appearance just as you can clearly tell a person FROM Africa apart from a Black person in America who is descended from them. Plus the Carribean flare seems to fit in with the Sea Folk style far more than African does... To me at least.

[Eleint]

Semirhage and Tuon are most assuredly black and of a far darker complexion than most in the story. As for the Sea Folk I can't agree with the African comparison. They strike me as having a more Carribean appearance. While some might argue they're one and the same considering the African heritage, there are distinct differences in appearance just as you can clearly tell a person FROM Africa apart from a Black person in America who is descended from them. Plus the Carribean flare seems to fit in with the Sea Folk style far more than African does... To me at least.

 

Well, the racial stock Africans come from aren't universally dark, either.  The Sea Folk honestly remind me of historical Ethiopians from the time period of the Eastern Roman Empire, around Axum and so forth.  Highly naval people who fight with almost no armor, with the best ships around?  Sounds like Ethiopians to me.  They weren't quite as dark as those from the central African continent either, though still noticably 'black'.

[Beli Tsar]

 

 

Well, the racial stock Africans come from aren't universally dark, either.  The Sea Folk honestly remind me of historical Ethiopians from the time period of the Eastern Roman Empire, around Axum and so forth.  Highly naval people who fight with almost no armor, with the best ships around?  Sounds like Ethiopians to me.  They weren't quite as dark as those from the central African continent either, though still noticably 'black'.

 

Ah yes, I'll have to concede that point to you. Didn't take them into account. Was thinking more in modern times, but from everything I read the Ethiopians you mentioned would fit the bill too. However, you can agree that they're also remeniscent of how we view Islanders in the Carribean. Especially the allure of the women and their rolling gaits.

[Eleint]

Ah yes, I'll have to concede that point to you. Didn't take them into account. Was thinking more in modern times, but from everything I read the Ethiopians you mentioned would fit the bill too. However, you can agree that they're also remeniscent of how we view Islanders in the Carribean. Especially the allure of the women and their rolling gaits.

 

Oh, of course.  You can't really say for surety 'cause I doubt Jordan just transplanted cultures.  It's not like the Malkieri were really Asian Indians or the Shienarans Japanese, merely based on similar precepts.  There are parallels all over.  They just are the ones that they remind  me the most.  Especially thinking about it, the mercantile aspect.  Axum was a nation of traders.

[Luckers]

You forget the fact that the Aiel are almost unfailing described as tall--definitely a Nordic trait. The Irish...not so much known for their height. If I had to approximate a people as Irish, I would say Andor...as Elayne and Gawyn illustrate, fair skin and red hair occur there, too. Of course, the rest of Andor (like Two Rivers, with predominantly dark hair and eyes) can be seen as the rest of the British Isles, where the native Picts were smallish with dark hair and eyes (Nynaeve and Egwene?)

 

Andorans--those whose colouring your speaking of--are also referred to by characters as a tall people.

 

I think, Luckers, Builder is being sarcastic.

 

He started this thread Shard. So he's either trolling, or does find it interesting.

[Majsju]

Actually the only group that resembles the Ail in height is the Watutsi tribe of Africa. Nordics may be considered tall by European standards but their average height is not 6 1/2 tall for men or 5, 10ish for women.

 

Not sure exactly what 6½ means in real measurements, but from my rought translation, it does seem quite close to the average in Sweden. (1,80 for people like me, born in the mid 70s, a few centimeters more for those born in the mid 80s)

[Charlz Guybon]

Actually the only group that resembles the Ail in height is the Watutsi tribe of Africa. Nordics may be considered tall by European standards but their average height is not 6 1/2 tall for men or 5, 10ish for women.

 

Not sure exactly what 6½ means in real measurements, but from my rought translation, it does seem quite close to the average in Sweden. (1,80 for people like me, born in the mid 70s, a few centimeters more for those born in the mid 80s)

1.8 meters is more like 6 ft even. 6 and 1/2 ft is 2 meters

[Builder]

Lol I'm a little over 1.8 meters  ;D

[Casco]

From the official writer of the WoT comics

 

Tuon

 

 

Semirhage

 

Yepp, there is black people in WoT.

[trakand_01]

Tuon is black, as is Semirhage, and Rahvin was black also. Tairens are described as being 'dark' although this could mean anything from Brazilian to African. The Aiel I always picture as Celts - ranging from flame red to Sulin's practically white hair, with naturally pale but sundarkened complexions. I've also seen pictures of Asmodean as black but I dont personally picture him that way.

[benr]

I think one of the main points from all of this is that, far from being racist (at least in his writing, and I expect in his "real" life), RJ presents the races as equals.  There is far more nationalism than racism in Randland.

[Builder]

Is there supposed to be a picture of Semirhage in your post Casco?

[Elgee]

Where'd the pics go??

 

They were there a few minutes ago, Builder  ???

[Builder]

Well they're not there now. I swar I didn't do anything  :D, however it might have been Casco who removed the pic, but I don't know why...

[Luckers]

The pics are still there, the problem must be on your end.

[Shard]

Yeah I still see them as well. It's a picture of Toun and Semirhage.

[Cillian]

All that being said, I don't think RJ just took ethnicities from our world and renamed them something else in Randland.

 

^^This. It's quite mixed and matched.

 

 

You forget the fact that the Aiel are almost unfailing described as tall--definitely a Nordic trait. The Irish...not so much known for their height. If I had to approximate a people as Irish, I would say Andor...as Elayne and Gawyn illustrate, fair skin and red hair occur there, too. Of course, the rest of Andor (like Two Rivers, with predominantly dark hair and eyes) can be seen as the rest of the British Isles, where the native Picts were smallish with dark hair and eyes (Nynaeve and Egwene?)

 

Actually it's the other way around (Especially accent wise). The Two Rivers is very "Irish" and the further east you go towards Caemlyn the more "British" you get. And that's from RJ himself.

Not everyone in Ireland has red hair and freckles, y'know. That's just a stereotype. Being Irish myself I can tell you hair colour is predominantly brown (like me). Though I do have ginger facial hair :)