The Gathering Storm Finished

[MikeRiley]

Yeah, it's what I'm doing. The attempt at avoiding spoilers will probably be futile though, this is the internet after all.

[Ludmian]

Well, for those of you who are happy to wait until the later part of 2011, there is noone that will stop you from doing this.

 

That is the beauty with this, we who want something asap, even if it is just 1/3 of the story will get that. Those who wants to wait til 2011 can do that. It is entirely up to you.

 

Sorry, Maj, but people aren't unhappy about Tor's decision because they are deprived of an opportunity to wait till 2011. I believe most people are unhappy that contrary to all of RJ's wishes there is no more AMoL, but there are three novels that cover the same events and have titles, each more horrible than the previous one. And instead of convincing reasons for that Tor gives us nothing but feeble excuses.

[Majsju]

Sorry, Maj, but people aren't unhappy about Tor's decision because they are deprived of an opportunity to wait till 2011. I believe most people are unhappy that contrary to all of RJ's wishes there is no more AMoL, but there are three novels that cover the same events and have titles, each more horrible than the previous one. And instead of convincing reasons for that Tor gives us nothing but feeble excuses.

 

You have misinterpreted wat Brandon said. His idea was to have AMOL as the general title, and then three subtitles to separate the books. That option is out the window, since the bookstores could not handle that much confusion. What is left of that idea is three individual titles, the first one being TGS, which was not even Brandons suggestion. We do not know what the other two titles will be, but I would say that the odds are quite good that part three will be titled AMOL.

 

And one thing to keep in mind is that RJ came up with AMOL as a working title. There is no way of knowing if he would have stuck with that if he had stayed with us long enough to see the book published.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, and this is extremely important, is that Harriet knows what RJ wanted better than all of us combined. She is in a unique position, because she knew RJ better than anyone, she has intimate knowledge of the entire series, ie including AMOL, and she knows the business. If she of all people can find what happens acceptable, so can you lot, end of story.

[Ludmian]

Are you sure she finds it acceptable? None of us can know for sure. Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written. I don't think she can dictate her own rules to Tor now. And no, I haven't misrepresented what Brandon said. I'm sure he has only the best intentions in mind. What he suggested would have been a better decision indeed. I simply don't find Tor's reasons for what they've done convincing.

 

We know the tentative titles for the last two books. None of them is AMoL, and I find it quite reasonable. The book RJ wanted to call A Memory of Light will not be published, why then apply this title to just a part of it?

 

And yes, Tarmon Gaidon is a much better title than A Memory of Light. RJ himself would never have been able to come up with something that awesome, original, deep and metaphorical, but if someone had suggested it to him he would have surely abandoned his working title for the new one.

 

*hopes that this time he did manage to convey sarcasm through the Internet*

[deathgate]

Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written. I don't think she can dictate her own rules to Tor now.

 

Everyone keeps writing this but is it true? The contract was with RJ not her. If there was an advance she could return it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Everyone keeps writing this but is it true? The contract was with RJ not her. If there was an advance she could return it.

 

I don't know, she hasn't said, and frankly, its none of our business.

 

[Majsju]

Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written

 

Most likely not. Eight books, that would mean that RJ in 2005 (or even earlier) got paid for writing the two remaining prequels, plus both trilogies he had planned for Infinity of Heaven. I do not think so.

 

We know the tentative titles for the last two books. None of them is AMoL, and I find it quite reasonable. The book RJ wanted to call A Memory of Light will not be published, why then apply this title to just a part of it?

 

Calling them 'tentative' is quite a stretch, as they were Brandons suggestions for subtitles when he still thought he could use AMOL as the general title for all three books.

As for the book RJ wanted to call AMOL, that is the book we now get published, only split in three parts instead of two which it would have been if RJ had finished it. The split does not change what is actually in the book.

[Chesus]

First off, I don't know about you, but I don't think Harriet is trying to split the book in order to make more money. This is something she has been a part of for a very long time and she wants to see it done properly. RJ said himself that the book was going to be insanely long, but he was also a stubborn old fool and if he had managed to get it printed in one book it would:

 

a) cost a LOT of money

 

b) probably fall apart halfway through reading due to craptastic bindings

 

c) take just as long as it will Brandon to finish it this way.

 

I think RJ would be okay with how it is. Sure he'd have fought like hell to keep it one book, or two books, but the important thing was getting the story told. And in a timely fashion.

 

It's been four years since Knife of Dreams. Do you REALLY want to wait another  two and half and get it all at once? I want a piece of the pie now. I can fast another year and then another for the second and third pieces. The titles, I can take them or leave them. The content is my only concern. Perhaps I a man of faith, but I choose to believe that I will be satisfied with the story.

 

Of course I'll be frustrated as hell on November 10th when I've finished The Gathering Storm and am forced to wait again. But that's better than the alternative of no ending at all or waiting till the end of 2011 for the whole damn thing.

 

I can't convince those of you that believe this a move of greed, laziness or whatever, but rest assured you are wrong.

 

 

[Voss]

 

As for the book RJ wanted to call AMOL, that is the book we now get published, only split in three parts instead of two which it would have been if RJ had finished it. The split does not change what is actually in the book.

 

It certainly does change what is actually in the book. Sanderson has said that the first 400k had to be sliced and diced to make a functional 300k book. The first 400k is the version that is closest to what Jordan intended for his story. Instead we are getting a version other than that because it had to come out in the important Holiday season and had to be small enough to appease the chain book stores. End of story.

 

There were 3 ways this could have gone:

1) They take the story and cut it into thirds similar to what Martin did and make 3 bad books out of it

2) They tinker with Jordan's story to force it into a proper format for 3 different books

3) They let Sanderson write the whole thing as well as he can as close as Jordan intended and publish that

 

 

[CUBAREY]

 

As for the book RJ wanted to call AMOL, that is the book we now get published, only split in three parts instead of two which it would have been if RJ had finished it. The split does not change what is actually in the book.

 

It certainly does change what is actually in the book. Sanderson has said that the first 400k had to be sliced and diced to make a functional 300k book. The first 400k is the version that is closest to what Jordan intended for his story. Instead we are getting a version other than that because it had to come out in the important Holiday season and had to be small enough to appease the chain book stores. End of story.

 

There were 3 ways this could have gone:

1) They take the story and cut it into thirds similar to what Martin did and make 3 bad books out of it

2) They tinker with Jordan's story to force it into a proper format for 3 different books

3) They let Sanderson write the whole thing as well as he can as close as Jordan intended and publish that

 

 

 

Brandon had wriiten 400k however, that was never intended to be the final product. It would be subject to Harriets edits, etc. Moreover, Tor wanted a book of 250k, Sanderson said no, it would take about 275 to have a consistent novel which ended in a climax. He then began editing and added another 25k of new scenes that he had intended to write but believed that they fit best in the first book. The rest of the original 400k will not be left on the floor, it will make up the first third of book two. Lastly Sanderson said that there was a second point in the AOL where the story could be devided. He said that would be about the 600k mark. That leaves 200k to possibly 400k for the third book.

 

 

Your three choices are incorrect. The Third choice would only be realistic if Jordan was alive and healthy. He might have convinced Tor and bully the bookstores because if he were alive they would be willing to go along with him since a New York Best Selling author who is alive and healthy can be expected to keep on writing (RJ had plans for at least three more novels set in the WOT universe, and a seperate fantasy series that had already been picked up by Tor)which would mean a lot more profit for them in the long run. Alas, with RJ's death the only thing that they are assured of is that Sanderson (a talented but young author with only a limited fan base) will finish AMOL. That gives Sanderson and Harriet a lot less of a bargaining position.

 

Your first choice is also unrealistic. Sanderson has a lot to gain and a lot to lose by writing AMOL. If he does a good job he likely inherits many of Rj's fans, if he does a made job he not only does not gain those fans he becomes known as the guy who screwed up one of the most beloved fantasy series (not a good thing for a fantasy writer). Moreover, whether Amol gets published at all is solely in Harriets hands. As the executor of RJ's estate she could legally stop Tor from publishing AMOL in three books if she really believed that it would tarnish RJ's legacy.

 

Thus the only real option was a version of your second choice. Since only the ending of AMOL and some other scenes were actually written by RJ the entire AMOL can be viewed as tinering with Jordan's story. Moreover, Sanderson was not given a specific word count that he had to adhere to. The original contract was for 200k, Sandersons' early estimate was 400k, when the decision to split AMOL into three volumes was reached Tom Doherty suggested the first installment be 250k but Sanderson initially said it would have to be 275k and later wrote more scenes that extended it to 300k.

 

Frankly Tor's wish to make it three books makes since. A month ago Sanderson was still talking about the final word count being around 800k (thats after signing a contract for 200k, and then periodicly revising his estimate upwords every few months) RJ had consistently underestimated the length of the series. IF Tor had decided to to trust Sanderson's estimate and publish one book at around 300k and another at 450k to 500k, it would have gotten some opposition from the booksellers about the length of the second book. If, However history repeated itself and the final product was not 450k to 500k but 600k to 700k it would be faced with craming down a 600k to 700k book on booksellers after twlling them it would be nn more then 500k or again deviding the final book into two which would have really pissed of both the bookstores and the fans. Frankly, I think Tom Dohery and Tor looked at the history of estimates concerning WOT and decided to play safe and cut AMOL into three volumes. Which I think was a very sensible thing to do, especially since we have no proof that Tor would even think of cutting the length of the story just to meet word count requirements.

 

 

 

[Shard]

Well, for those of you who are happy to wait until the later part of 2011, there is noone that will stop you from doing this.

 

That is the beauty with this, we who want something asap, even if it is just 1/3 of the story will get that. Those who wants to wait til 2011 can do that. It is entirely up to you.

 

Sorry, Maj, but people aren't unhappy about Tor's decision because they are deprived of an opportunity to wait till 2011. I believe most people are unhappy that contrary to all of RJ's wishes there is no more AMoL, but there are three novels that cover the same events and have titles, each more horrible than the previous one. And instead of convincing reasons for that Tor gives us nothing but feeble excuses.

 

Aren't you counting chickens before the eggs hatch?

[Cillian]

Brandon had wriiten 400k however, that was never intended to be the final product. It would be subject to Harriets edits, etc. Moreover, Tor wanted a book of 250k, Sanderson said no, it would take about 275 to have a consistent novel which ended in a climax. He then began editing and added another 25k of new scenes that he had intended to write but believed that they fit best in the first book. The rest of the original 400k will not be left on the floor, it will make up the first third of book two. Lastly Sanderson said that there was a second point in the AOL where the story could be devided. He said that would be about the 600k mark. That leaves 200k to possibly 400k for the third book.

 

After reading through the various topics and blogs I'm OK with the split, I just want to point something out:

 

From Brandon's blog:

"I cut into the 450k completed portion with the hacksaw and pulled out 275k. What's left over is ragged and in need of a lot of work."

 

uh... yeah that's pretty much it....

you may continue! :)

 

[CUBAREY]

Brandon had wriiten 400k however, that was never intended to be the final product. It would be subject to Harriets edits, etc. Moreover, Tor wanted a book of 250k, Sanderson said no, it would take about 275 to have a consistent novel which ended in a climax. He then began editing and added another 25k of new scenes that he had intended to write but believed that they fit best in the first book. The rest of the original 400k will not be left on the floor, it will make up the first third of book two. Lastly Sanderson said that there was a second point in the AOL where the story could be devided. He said that would be about the 600k mark. That leaves 200k to possibly 400k for the third book.

 

After reading through the various topics and blogs I'm OK with the split, I just want to point something out:

 

From Brandon's blog:

"I cut into the 450k completed portion with the hacksaw and pulled out 275k. What's left over is ragged and in need of a lot of work."

 

uh... yeah that's pretty much it....

you may continue! :)

 

 

Good point. Writing it as one book means that Sanderson would not have to have certain conclusions within the first 275k or 300k of material. Thus he probably ordered scenes within the 450K already written in a manor inconsistent with a three volume finsih to the series. That does not mean he would have to junk the 175k he already wrote but did not include in the first volume, instead it likely means that he use the scenes in the second volume and integrate them into the plot lines that will be resolved by the 600k cutoff for the second novel.

 

I imagine it this way, his original 450k covered (among other things) the rescue of Morraine, Galad and Perrin meeting up, the Seanchen siege of the WHite Tower, etc. Now once it came to getting a coherent first volume, he may have decided to close up the Morraine rescue and Perrin and Galad meeting but decided to switch most of the Seanchen White Tower confrontation scenes to the second novel. The scenes will still be used, but would have been shifted to a later part of the story then he would have originally concieved of. Since from what Brandon has said the begiining third is the part of the story on which RJ's notes are the sketchiest (or at least where he had written the least amount of actal scenes) I don't think that this change will effect the legitimacy of RJ's vision for the end of WOT.

[Mr Ares]

Harriet knows what RJ wanted better than all of us combined.

And what did he want?

But you are also splitting a book that Robert Jordan intended to be one book. (Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it' date=' or would have done it, given the chance.)[/quote']

 

Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written.

I remember reading on the blog that RJ had signed a contract for the first three Infinity of Heaven books, but I don't know if he signed anything about the prequels or outriggers. Friend or not, when a man is already under contract for four books and has been diagnosed with potentially fatal illness, would you start flinging advances at him for yet more books?

[dmanmiller34]

Look on the brght side. All of us Bloggers get to Nit pick and comb over the story of AMoL in sections. Woot woot. Pleanty of time to theroize. It will Hold us all togerther visiting this websidte A little bit longer. Woot for togetherness.

[Ludmian]

Harriet knows what RJ wanted better than all of us combined.

And what did he want?

But you are also splitting a book that Robert Jordan intended to be one book. (Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it' date=' or would have done it, given the chance.)[/quote']

 

Thanks for the quote. I didn't pay attention to this when I read BS's blog. Now the people who say that RJ must have changed his mind before his death or that Harriet knows better what RJ would have wanted can see for themselves what Harriet thinks RJ would have wanted. So the split was contrary not not only to the wish RJ expressed himself many times. It was also contrary to what Harriet thinks RJ would have done if he were alive.

 

Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written.

I remember reading on the blog that RJ had signed a contract for the first three Infinity of Heaven books, but I don't know if he signed anything about the prequels or outriggers. Friend or not, when a man is already under contract for four books and has been diagnosed with potentially fatal illness, would you start flinging advances at him for yet more books?

 

We know for sure that RJ sold the rights for the first Infinity of Heaven trilogy to Tor:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=194

 

The expanded version of New Spring was planned as the first in a sequence of three prequels from the very beginning. While I don't have a link to support it, we can be 99% sure that all three prequels were sold to Tor years ago. As for the outrigger novels, I'm not so sure. I think I've read about it somewhere on the forum, but that information may be inaccurate. Even if it is inaccurate, it means that Harriet owes Tor money for "just" five novels instead of eight, which doesn't make a very big difference.

[CUBAREY]

Thanks for the quote. I didn't pay attention to this when I read BS's blog. Now the people who say that RJ must have changed his mind before his death or that Harriet knows better what RJ would have wanted can see for themselves what Harriet thinks RJ would have wanted. So the split was contrary not not only to the wish RJ expressed himself many times. It was also contrary to what Harriet thinks RJ would have done if he were alive.

 

 

Quote from: Mr Ares on April 05, 2009, 10:17:27 AM

Quote from: Ludmian on April 04, 2009, 12:20:30 PM

Most likely she owes Tor money for eight books that will never be written.

I remember reading on the blog that RJ had signed a contract for the first three Infinity of Heaven books, but I don't know if he signed anything about the prequels or outriggers. Friend or not, when a man is already under contract for four books and has been diagnosed with potentially fatal illness, would you start flinging advances at him for yet more books?

 

 

We know for sure that RJ sold the rights for the first Infinity of Heaven trilogy to Tor:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=194

 

The expanded version of New Spring was planned as the first in a sequence of three prequels from the very beginning. While I don't have a link to support it, we can be 99% sure that all three prequels were sold to Tor years ago. As for the outrigger novels, I'm not so sure. I think I've read about it somewhere on the forum, but that information may be inaccurate. Even if it is inaccurate, it means that Harriet owes Tor money for "just" five novels instead of eight, which doesn't make a very big difference.

 

Sorry but that he sold the rights to five novels,does not mean that Tor gave him an advance on 5 novels. It's an important distinction because the fact that Tor agreed to puublish five novels does not mean that  RJ received an advance for writing any of the books except AMOL. Look at it this way at some point after the first book of WOT it became clear that WOT would be at least 9 or 10 books and Tor agreed to publish all of them. That does not mean that Tor gave RJ an advance on four novels that had yet to be written. Instead Tor would have agreed to publish all the novels and given RJ an advance on the next novel. Similarly that their was a contract that bound RJ to write five novels and Tor to pblish them does not mean that RJ actually received an advance on the five novels.

[Majsju]

Brandon have started to get the edits back from Harriet and the others, and they are about halfway through the book. So far, it seems to be mostly minor clarity or continuity tweaks.

[Charlz Guybon]

Harriet have started to get the edits back from Harriet and the others, and they are about halfway through the book. So far, it seems to be mostly minor clarity or continuity tweaks.

Has their been a cloning incident I didn't hear of? ???

[Majsju]

Oops ;D

[Roxinos]

So the split was contrary not not only to the wish RJ expressed himself many times. It was also contrary to what Harriet thinks RJ would have done if he were alive.

 

You completely misrepresented that quote.

 

RJ himself expressed that we would get to see the end of the Wheel of Time in one book, even if it had to be taken home from the store in a wheeled cart. That's hyperbole, you can't take hyperbole as literal intent.

 

Even if you could you're misrepresenting what Harriet thinks RJ would have done.

 

"Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it, or would have done it, given the chance."

 

[They] both have said they don't think [Jordan] could have [written it all in one book], or would have [written it all in one book], given the chance.

 

Meaning, they think he would have understood the impossibilities present on the side of the Tor in convincing the printers and bookstores to print and carry, respectively, a book that was upwards of 800k words.

 

To sum up what Brandon said:

 

Tor could not have produced a book this year if they had convinced the printers and bookstores to print and carry, respectively, the full 800k+ words. Tor had promised that we would get a book this year. Tor wants to keep its promise to the readers.

 

If Tor had broken its promise, it would have had a hell of a lot of problems convincing the printers and bookstores to print and carry, respectively, the 800k+ words. If Tor could have convinced them to do what must be done to get the books out to the masses, it would have been several years from now. Many have already expressed their willingness to wait, but I doubt that the vast majority of readers would express the same willingness to wait an indeterminate amount of time for a series that is going on 20 years now to finish. However, assuming that Tor ignored that aspect of things, the price of the single book would no doubt far exceed the price of an average book. This is not Tor's fault, this is the bookstores.

 

Now, while you may have been okay with all of those things that Tor would have had to do, and all of the necessary backlashes to Tor's hypothetical decision, do you really believe that most people would be? Tom and Harriet made the wisest choice. If you wish to believe that Harriet had no say in it, and that it was just Tom, then trust that Tom was a close friend of Jordan and that he would want to honor his memory as much as Harriet. If you do not think it was either, but rather Tor as a whole, then go ahead with your conspiracy theories. However, it'll avail you nothing as you'll sit ill-at-ease long after the books have been published for what you deem a slight at the hands of a greedy publishing house.

 

*sigh* I trust Harriet and Tom to have done what they think was in the series' best interest and in Jordan's best wishes. I trust Brandon to do with the series what must be done to give us the ending we've been waiting years for. I trust them because I must. I trust them because the alternative is nothing but heartache that neither serves to ease me with its logic, which it has none, nor serves to grant me some boon.

[Ludmian]

So the split was contrary not not only to the wish RJ expressed himself many times. It was also contrary to what Harriet thinks RJ would have done if he were alive.

 

You completely misrepresented that quote.

 

RJ himself expressed that we would get to see the end of the Wheel of Time in one book, even if it had to be taken home from the store in a wheeled cart. That's hyperbole, you can't take hyperbole as literal intent.

 

Sorry, but it's you who's misrepresenting what RJ said. That he wanted to finish WoT in  no more than one book was his literal intent. The part about the wheeled cart was a hyperbole that he used to make his literal intent clear.

 

Even if you could you're misrepresenting what Harriet thinks RJ would have done.

 

"Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it, or would have done it, given the chance."

 

[They] both have said they don't think [Jordan] could have [written it all in one book], or would have [written it all in one book], given the chance.

 

Meaning, they think he would have understood the impossibilities present on the side of the Tor in convincing the printers and bookstores to print and carry, respectively, a book that was upwards of 800k words.

 

Sorry, but it seems to me that you are misrepresenting what Brandon said again.

 

But you are also splitting a book that Robert Jordan intended to be one book. (Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it, or would have done it, given the chance.)

 

Does anybody here actually believe that "it" in the second sentence stands for anything other than "splitting the book"?

 

To sum up what Brandon said:

 

To sum up what Brandon said: Tor wanted to publish something this Autumn and bookshops don't like long books, that's why we butchered AMoL.

 

As for the printers, I don't get your arguement at all. You pay the printer for printing a book, the printer prints it. Books that are 1400-1500 pages long are not something unheard of, so they won't have to actually invent a new binding process for AMoL (that was another of RJ's hyperboles). If the printer can't print all the volumes in time, provided you did decide to split AMoL into volumes and sell them as a set, give the volumes to different printers. Do you in the US have only one printer who can cope with one book at a time only?

 

The bookshops will carry a #1 bestseller however long it will be. If any of them don't, more money will go to those who run their buseness more reasonably and to Amazon that sells anything it can possibly sell.

 

As for Tor wanting to stick to its self-imposed deadline, delays are not something unheard of before (*cough* George Martin *cough*). They could have said something like "When we decided to publish AMoL in November 2009 no one realized the scope and magnitude of the book. Now that we see that the book is likely to reach 800,000 words in length we decided to give Brandon and Harriet as much time as they need to do the story justice and not to rush the book, and when it is finished we'll publish the book in one volume, as RJ wanted". I believe people would have understood them.

 

And finally.

 

 

Many have already expressed their willingness to wait, but I doubt that the vast majority of readers would express the same willingness to wait an indeterminate amount of time for a series that is going on 20 years now to finish.

 

Will you, please, explain where you got that crazy idea that the series is going to end quicker than it would if Tor insisted on publishing the end in one volume? If anything, we'll only have to wait longer, because

 

From Brandon's blog:

"I cut into the 450k completed portion with the hacksaw and pulled out 275k. What's left over is ragged and in need of a lot of work."

 

and because even if Brandon finishes Part 3 earlier than it's planned now Tor will surely stick to its one-book-each-holiday-season schedule. They will surely want to keep that promise.

[Roxinos]

Does anybody here actually believe that "it" in the second sentence stands for anything other than "splitting the book"?

 

Obviously me.

 

The part about the wheeled cart was a hyperbole that he used to make his literal intent clear.

 

I think he is a little more pragmatic than that. Given the obvious difficulties with both the printers and the bookstores.

 

Will you, please, explain where you got that crazy idea that the series is going to end quicker than it would if Tor insisted on publishing the end in one volume? If anything, we'll only have to wait longer, because

 

The timeframe will be about the same in my mind for a final, completed product. However, one way we receive something early. The other we must wait and have none of our ire assuaged.

 

As for the printers, I don't get your arguement at all.

 

The idea of printing 1500 page books may not be unheard of, but it is certainly not a familiar or a likable concept.

 

The bookshops will carry a #1 bestseller however long it will be.

 

Bookshops are companies. They run a business. No matter the #1 bestseller status (which is determined by the number of orders the bookstores send out for the book, not the number of people who buy the book) of a book, something the length required for an omnibus edition of aMoL would be a bad thing in the eyes of the bookstores. It would take up a lot of shelf space that could be used for other things. As Brandon said in his blog, bookstores already have a distaste for the fantasy lot because of the sheer amount of shelf space typically required for books, with a relatively small number of readers in proportion to the shelf space.

 

As for other businesses taking it up? There are a limited number of businesses. The largest chains being Barnes & Noble and Borders. Smaller bookstores are less likely to want to carry such a burden, because they receive less traffic as it is and I'm sure they would rather not waste the limited shelf space they have on something that isn't guaranteed to sell.

 

Again: *sigh* I trust Harriet and Tom to have done what they think was in the series' best interest and in Jordan's best wishes. I trust Brandon to do with the series what must be done to give us the ending we've been waiting years for. I trust them because I must. I trust them because the alternative is nothing but heartache that neither serves to ease me with its logic, which it has none, nor serves to grant me some boon.

[Ludmian]

Does anybody here actually believe that "it" in the second sentence stands for anything other than "splitting the book"?

 

Obviously me.

 

I knew that already.  :) Now I'm looking forward to see if there are many other people here who think that what Brandon actually meant is "If RJ were given the chance to keep AMoL one book he wouldn't have done it".

 

 

Will you, please, explain where you got that crazy idea that the series is going to end quicker than it would if Tor insisted on publishing the end in one volume? If anything, we'll only have to wait longer, because

 

The timeframe will be about the same in my mind for a final, completed product. However, one way we receive something early. The other we must wait and have none of our ire assuaged.

 

That's not what you said in the quote I responded to. Or I have misunderstood you.

 

As for the printers, I don't get your arguement at all.

 

The idea of printing 1500 page books may not be unheard of, but it is certainly not a familiar or a likable concept.

 

Books that go far beyond 1000 pages are not only something not unheard of. Actually it's quite a usual thing with certain types of books. As for "not likable", likable by whom? By printers? Do you really think Tor is afraid of pissing off printers? Find the printer who agrees to print a 1500-page book, pay them, and they'll print it.

 

The bookshops will carry a #1 bestseller however long it will be.

 

Bookshops are companies. They run a business. No matter the #1 bestseller status (which is determined by the number of orders the bookstores send out for the book, not the number of people who buy the book) of a book, something the length required for an omnibus edition of aMoL would be a bad thing in the eyes of the bookstores. It would take up a lot of shelf space that could be used for other things. As Brandon said in his blog, bookstores already have a distaste for the fantasy lot because of the sheer amount of shelf space typically required for books, with a relatively small number of readers in proportion to the shelf space.

 

All right, let's say not a #1 bestseller, but a book by the writer who has published four #1 bestsellers. RJ does have a fairly large number of readers in proportion to the shelf space. Why should they be angry with Tor for publishing a huge book by RJ, of all writers? And do you really agree with the situation when it's the shops who dictate what consumers should buy and businesses should produce, if Tor is really sincere about that?

 

 

[CUBAREY]

Books that go far beyond 1000 pages are not only something not unheard of. Actually it's quite a usual thing with certain types of books. As for "not likable", likable by whom? By printers? Do you really think Tor is afraid of pissing off printers? Find the printer who agrees to print a 1500-page book, pay them, and they'll print it.

 

It's quite usual in textbooks and classic fiction it is not the norm in fiction today and defeinately in fantasy where the booksellers are trying to get publishers to keep word count to 200k to 250k. Second a publishers relationship with a printer is ongoing it doesn't shop the printing of every book it publishes to different printers. Second, the problem is not that printers will not do a 1500 page book but that the binding on such a book tends to fall apart easily (a situation that RJ acknowledged even when making his comments about a volume so large it would have to be carried around in a wheel barrel). Third printing such a large volume would increase the cost of printing which would mean the sales price would have to be inflated or Tor's profit margin would be cut or both.Lastly, those who really object to books that size are the bookstores not the printers.

 

All right, let's say not a #1 bestseller, but a book by the writer who has published four #1 bestsellers. RJ does have a fairly large number of readers in proportion to the shelf space. Why should they be angry with Tor for publishing a huge book by RJ, of all writers? And do you really agree with the situation when it's the shops who dictate what consumers should buy and businesses should produce, if Tor is really sincere about that?

 

Simple the bookstores earn more profit selling 4 books of 250k at $25 dollars each then one 900k to 1,000k book for $65-$75 dollars. So by displacing three other best selling novels a one Volume AMOL drasticly cuts into the profit margin of the bookstores. Since Tor is at the mercy of Bookstores to sell its books (yia the bookstores might agree to sell books by bestselling authors published by Tor but in order to stay in business over the long run Tor has to get them to sell the books of new unknown authors). Thus Tor does have to keep in mind the wishes of the bookstores, especially if it has already pissed them of by publishing other large novels.