What Have You Noticed on the Nth Read Through?

[Sylvia]

I just noticed for the first time in I don't know how many reading that in Winters Heart Verin was about to poison Cadsuane. I can't believe I never caught that.

 

I don't think she was going to poison her, just use some kind of truth serum...

[benr]

You view Verin in a much more favorable light than I do.  Pretty sure it was poison, but I'm not at my books.

[Elgee]

We saw Sorilea slip Verin a vial of something to "help her sleep" and specifically warn her not to use more than 1 drop, as 3 drops could kill. I rather doubt Verin has any problems sleeping, so why would she need a vial of something like that?

 

A while later, we see Verin slipping the vial back into her pocket (or wherever), instead of adding a few drops of it into Cadsuane's tea. Same vile, surely?

[deathgate]

On a re-read of New Spring I finally noticed what surely must be a Star Wars nod concerning Moiraine. "Once she was dressed, she began to feel every inch the Lady Moiraine Damodred. Only having her hair arranged in elaborate coils on the sides of her head could have made it more so".

[Eleint]

One thing I noticed on my latest re-read, though I don't know if it'll actually show up with Aridhol nuked from the taint: right around the Trolloc Wars, before the Ways started to go dark, a group of Aes Sedai were sucked into the ways destroying a Waygate.  Loial mentioned this while on one of his 'The Ways are dangerous' rants, I think in tSR.  It'd be interesting if they are the cause of (and in a way, are) Machin Shin -- sucked into the tainted ways, sucked 'through' tainted Saidin and rendered instantly nuts and becoming a part of the Ways themselves.

 

The timing is certainly interestingly suspicious.

[Sylvia]

We saw Sorilea slip Verin a vial of something to "help her sleep" and specifically warn her not to use more than 1 drop, as 3 drops could kill. I rather doubt Verin has any problems sleeping, so why would she need a vial of something like that?

 

A while later, we see Verin slipping the vial back into her pocket (or wherever), instead of adding a few drops of it into Cadsuane's tea. Same vile, surely?

 

But why must it be poison? I wouldn't think that Verin would use whatever was in that vile to kill Cad, with Soreila being the one to give it to her and be able to know how she died....

 

I still don't think so...

[Elgee]

Cadsuane is old - who would suspect a thing if she died in her sleep? Or if her heart just gave in, seemingly?

 

Can you think of any other reason why RJ would have written the first mentioned scene in?

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

(For the record, I'm pretty sure Elgee is right here ... )

[Elgee]

:o ... *chokes up*

[Sylvia]

Alright, I give you that one, the fact that she's older than dirt seems to keep slipping my mind.

 

And I have no idea what mentioned scene you're talking about.

[RobertAlexWillis]

:o ... *chokes up*

 

Oh, crap!  -shuts off Force powers-

[Elgee]

*Winks at RAW*

 

Sylvia, it's in Winter's Heart (Book 9):

 

Chapter 13, p 304:

 

The door to the hall opened to admit Verin and Sorilia. The leathery, white-haired Aiel woman handed something small to Verin that the Brown tucked into her belt-pouch. Verin was wearing a flowered brooch on her simple bronze-colored dress, the first jewelry Cadsuane had ever seen on her aside from her Great Serpent ring.

 

"That will help you sleep," Sorilea said, "but remember, just three drops in water or one in wine. A little more, and you might sleep a day or longer. Much more, and you will not wake. There is no taste to warn you, so you must be careful."

 

A few mistakes on my part there - no mention of a vial, just something small, and it's a few more to kill. I forgot about the "no taste to warn you" bit.

 

Next quote is when they are in Far Madding. Chapter 25, p494-495 (I'm only quoting bits from the last page):

 

"Verin, he can do whatever his heart desires, anything at all, as long as he lives to reach Tarmon Gai'don. And as long as I can be at his side long enough to make him learn how to laugh again, and cry." ... "He is turning into a stone, Verin, and if he doesn't relearn that he's human, winning the Last Battle may not be much better than losing." ....

 

Her (Cadsuane's) hands dropped onto the embroidery hoop on her lap. "I seem to be in a confiding mood tonight. Unusual for me. If you ever finish pouring that tea, I may confide some more."

 

"Oh, yes; of course." Hastily filling a second cup, Verin slipped the small vial back into her pouch unopened. It was good to be sure of Cadsuane at last. "Do you take honey?" she asked in her most muddled voice. "I never can remember."

[Sylvia]

Oh! Thank you. I guess I just didn't want to think of Verin in that way. She always reminded me of my Grandma, hah.

 

I guess she was trying to kill Cadsuane. I want to know why now.

[Vambram]

She was going to kill Cadsuane because she was not sure of Caddy's goals concerning Rand al`Thor. Once Caddy told Verin, she decided that she was not goin to kill Caddy.

[Beli Tsar]

Question: When Rand was in Rhuidean seeing through his ancestors' eyes, on the very last viewing in which he(as Charn) witnesses the drilling of the bore, Charn breaks into a run back toward the now burning Collam Daan with tears rolling down his face, and lamenting the fact that he was sworn to serve the Aes Sedai but was too late. Now I understand that he could be simply seeing this as a failure to have been on-time for such a momentous occasion, but he really takes this failure to heart, and I can't help wondering if that's because his presence might've had some effect more than just being there in-case they call upon him to do something? I might be fishing here, but alas, I had to ask.

[Mr Ares]

Oh! Thank you. I guess I just didn't want to think of Verin in that way. She always reminded me of my Grandma, hah.

Are you worried about your Grandma trying to kill you now?

[Sylvia]

Are you worried about your Grandma trying to kill you now?

 

No, as alas, poor Grandmama is not of this world anymore....I just don't like the thought of Grandma's killing people.....or Zombie Grandma coming to eat my brains....

[benr]

Are you worried about your Grandma trying to kill you now?

 

No, as alas, poor Grandmama is not of this world anymore....I just don't like the thought of Grandma's killing people.....or Zombie Grandma coming to eat my brains....

 

Now you're getting to the REAL Verin!

[Sylvia]

Now you're getting to the REAL Verin!

 

So you're implying Verin is a zombie?

[arkinia]

It had to be a truth serum, once Cadsuane said she was in a confiding mood Verin changed her mind. Why would you kill someone you wanted information from? And then if she was going to kill Cadsuane for interfering with Rand, why wouldn't a stern talking to do the trick or some other type of persuasion, why would she jump right to poison when there is really no evidence of Verin disliking the way Cadsuane treats Rand... as far as I can tell.

[Sylvia]

Thats what I was thinking. Beleive me though, people will set you straight....lol

[Mr Ares]

It had to be a truth serum

No, it didn't. It is far more reasonable to think she is planning to dispose of Cadsuane if Cadsuane tries to control Rand. After all, she consistently tries to stop people controlling Rand.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Cadsuane was pursuing Rand in Far Madding.  She was far more dangerous to him there than she was anywhere else in the world; if she was planning to take control of him, that was the place to do it, where he couldn't channel, was cut off from all his power bases, and she had a hold on the head of government.  Verin knew enough about the society of Far Madding to know that Cadsuane could definitely take advantage of it.  She was willing to kill Cadsuane to keep Rand off her leash.

 

When Cadsuane confessed that she didn't really care what Rand did, so long as he made it to Tarmon Gai'don and she could help him to become human again (laugh and cry), then Verin knew that she wasn't trying to put a metaphorical leash on him, and Verin didn't need to kill her.  She didn't need truth serum, since Cadsuane is bound by the Oaths.  And actually, having Cads around would be an advantage, because no other Aes Sedai could take charge with Cads there.  Which freed Verin to leave, as she probably knew she would later have to.

 

Its just more support for the idea that Verin is actively trying to keep Rand free from Aes Sedai control.

[Majsju]

Cadsuane was pursuing Rand in Far Madding.  She was far more dangerous to him there than she was anywhere else in the world; if she was planning to take control of him, that was the place to do it, where he couldn't channel, was cut off from all his power bases, and she had a hold on the head of government.  Verin knew enough about the society of Far Madding to know that Cadsuane could definitely take advantage of it.  She was willing to kill Cadsuane to keep Rand off her leash.

 

Add to this that Verin can not act openly herself to try to influence the government, since she is violating her exile by being in FM. If Cads had been up to something naughty, she could have had the guards haul off Verin at the first sign of protest.

[deathgate]

In EOTW just noticed Tam saying how much he paid for the heron marked sword and wonder how his story compares to Galad. Also made me wonder exactly how many blademasters are out there. It is also always interesting how my interpretation of a character changes by knowing more of them from recent books.