Whowould you bale fire if you could

[TaiShar Panthera]

If I could balefire just one person in the entire saga, it would be...oh, let's see - Faile! First, she's a complete control freak, and totally takes advantage of Perrin's love for her (basically just to boss him around). Second, those idiotic "Cha Faile" wannabes are SO frustrating to read about!

And third, Perrin, (who was one of my favorite characters until Faile came along) spent the better part of two entire books wandering around looking for Faile while he could have been helping Rand (or just lopping Trollocs' limbs off).

[Mr Ares]

Wow never knew a stick with a pointy end was defense against a fireball, what he swing it like a bat?

I'm still waiting for you to volunteer for these experiments. Do you have much experience of fireballs? Specifically, ones created with the OP? Given your obviously in depth knowledge of the subject, what would be the destructive capacity of a fireball that size? Do you have diagrams?

 

He might not of used the power to harm or even do anything to Semirhage, but he could of woven a shield or something like he did when the Asha'man tried to assassinate him.

He could, but that would potentially give the suicidal maniac in his head access to the Power. Which was what he was specifically trying to avoid. Did you not read that quote I posted? Rand tries to grab the OP, so does LTT. Would you go into a negotiation like that with a madman holding the Power?

Sorry but Rand is an idiot. Going when he won't try to hold the power, allowing Min to come.

Neither of those things makes him an idiot. Not seizing the Power is very sensible under the circumstances, and taking Min along, while not a stroke of genius by any means, was not a completely stupid move. He was perhaps too willing to indulge her desire to come along, but that falls a little short of him being an idiot.

He knew women who could channel would be there what exactly was he going to do if it was an ambush?

Let the channelers he brought with him deal with it perhaps? Those women and men able to seize the Source without getting into a squabble with the voices in their heads, voices which just happen to be able to take control of the Power and weave without the owner of the body having much say in the matter? Those men and women, some very powerful, some armed with angreal and ter'angreal? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, it might make sense to let them deal with it?

 

Wouldn't have mattered much, Semirhage is a woman. Rand would take a dagger in the face from one before he'd start channeling.

So you're saying Lanfear isn't a woman? This flies in the face of all the evidence in the series, but what the hell, that's never stopped anyone before! I agree with you, Lanfear is a man!

And Rand has tried to kill her when exactly? Really tried, not some half-assed attempt at fending her off before she'd get herself hurt.

What does killing have to do with it? You seem to be operating under the impression that either I can't read or channeling and attempted killing are one and the same. Neither of these things is true. You said Rand would rather take a dagger in the face than channel at a woman. Rand has channeled at Lanfear. Not to kill, but he has channeled at her. He can do the same to Semi (aside from his problems with grabbing the Source). He would have no problem, in theory (just the obvious practical ones), with shielding her and tying her up with flows of Air. No killing necessary. He has done this to Lanfear. Either you were wrong, or Lanfear is a man (so RJ is wrong).

 

And third, Perrin, (who was one of my favorite characters until Faile came along)...

*kneecaps TaiShar Panthera*

[Jehaine]

*sighs* Fine then.

 

When i said 'channeling' i meant using the offensive stuff like fireballs and lightning -- the stuff that can kill or (at the very least) hurt. The ones that actually count in a channeling battle, which i was referring to.

 

Next time, i shall be more specific.

[Sabio]

I'm still waiting for you to volunteer for these experiments. Do you have much experience of fireballs? Specifically, ones created with the OP? Given your obviously in depth knowledge of the subject, what would be the destructive capacity of a fireball that size? Do you have diagrams?

 

Do you??????  You seem all knowing in matters, please tell me.

 

Neither of those things makes him an idiot. Not seizing the Power is very sensible under the circumstances, and taking Min along, while not a stroke of genius by any means, was not a completely stupid move. He was perhaps too willing to indulge her desire to come along, but that falls a little short of him being an idiot.

 

So bringing a love one who can't channel into a possible ambush with alot of people who can isn't idiotic?  He knew it was dangerous, knew he wasn't going to try and reach the source.  So yes he is an idiot for bringing her.

 

He could, but that would potentially give the suicidal maniac in his head access to the Power. Which was what he was specifically trying to avoid. Did you not read that quote I posted? Rand tries to grab the OP, so does LTT. Would you go into a negotiation like that with a madman holding the Power?

 

I read it and I am well aware of his issues.  Yes he brought very capable people to help him, but you don't go into a meeting with your enemy when everyone is expecting an ambush not using all the powers you can.  Could his forces of arrived in time if 10 more channelers burst out of the house?  He won't hurt women so his sword was useless there.

 

[Mr Ares]

Do you??????  You seem all knowing in matters, please tell me.

There is the obvious point that as the fireball in question was stopped by his hand and the contents thereof, the destructive capacity of said fireball was limited to the ability to destroy said extremity and its aforementioned contents, throw Rand from his horse, and that's about it. If you feel that the story is implausible in this respect, the onus is on you to prove it.

 

Neither of those things makes him an idiot. Not seizing the Power is very sensible under the circumstances, and taking Min along, while not a stroke of genius by any means, was not a completely stupid move. He was perhaps too willing to indulge her desire to come along, but that falls a little short of him being an idiot.

So bringing a love one who can't channel into a possible ambush with alot of people who can isn't idiotic? He knew it was dangerous, knew he wasn't going to try and reach the source. So yes he is an idiot for bringing her.

Anything is a potential ambush. It was also a potential peaceful meeting. Depends on how paranoid you are. He knew it may be dangerous (may being a key word here). Min wanted to come. Not letting her come would have resulted in needless arguments. He is trying to avoid arguments with his girlfriend. Fairly smart. Also, she has abilities nobody else has - her viewings. They could provide a potential edge. Trying to gain an edge in negotiations is idiotic now?

 

He could, but that would potentially give the suicidal maniac in his head access to the Power. Which was what he was specifically trying to avoid. Did you not read that quote I posted? Rand tries to grab the OP, so does LTT. Would you go into a negotiation like that with a madman holding the Power?

I read it and I am well aware of his issues. Yes he brought very capable people to help him, but you don't go into a meeting with your enemy when everyone is expecting an ambush not using all the powers you can.

Don't I? And he was expecting a meeting with the DotNM, and knew there existed the possiblity of an ambush. Fine. There also existed the possiblity of a peaceful solution to the problem, which is what Rand needs. Going in with LTT holding the Source? Not a wise move. Going in with himself holding the OP? How does that help?

Could his forces of arrived in time if 10 more channelers burst out of the house?

The forces he had with him were capable of detecting saidar or saidin being channeled and would've been able to defend the Lord Dragon during a fighting retreat thorugh a Gateway in the event of more channelers showing up. What would be gained by Rand holding the Source? He has more important things to worry about.

[RAND AL THOR]

It was supposed to be a peaceful meeting. Holding the Power in such a case would most certainly upset the chances of a peaceful outcome.

 

What if someone with the DotNM's could detect men channeling in some way? It was bound to be considered a threat.

 

Also, even if Rand had taken hold of saidin successfully (which he may not have been able to) LTT may have tried to seize it away from him during the negotiations. I believe that this was attempted before and Rand mentally struggling with himself at the moment when he ought to be all regal dragon rebornish is quite foolish.

 

Min could have been left behind. Rand has shown that he can keep the ones he loves out of danger to some degree. Her presence was important if it really had turned out to be a negotiation attempt. Since it was an assassination attempt, her presence seems like a waste now. But consider from Rand's perspective.

 

I too get annoyed with the whole female thingy but I like that fact that Rand has a major weakness. Let's just hope the DO isn't a she.

 

The balefiring of Faile will have consequences that are unimaginably damaging to the Light. She's better off alive.

 

Truth to tell, I would say that Rand took every precaution possible when he went to meet the Seanchan at the negotiating table.

[Sabio]

Honestly if I went to a meeting full of channelers I would expect everyone to be holding the power.  As for LTT taking the power, that is why if you are going to do it, do it well before the meeting, yeah once he was there it was a bit late. 

 

Rand is going to have to keep risking it unless he is just going to stop channeling all together.  If I was Rand once I had the power I wouldn't let go of it till I went to bed.

 

[Hybrid]

Honestly if I went to a meeting full of channelers I would expect everyone to be holding the power.

 

That's like showing up to negotiations and pointing loaded M4s in everyone's faces.  Not exactly the most diplomatic approach.  It's only a matter of time before someone does like Sammael and "seizes a tactical advantage."

[RAND AL THOR]

Honestly if I went to a meeting full of channelers I would expect everyone to be holding the power.

 

That's like showing up to negotiations and pointing loaded M4s in everyone's faces.  Not exactly the most diplomatic approach.

 

Exactly.

If I was Rand once I had the power I wouldn't let go of it till I went to bed.

 

 

The numerous problems with that-the most notable of which is the sweetness of the power if held for too long.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

If I was Rand once I had the power I wouldn't let go of it till I went to bed.

The numerous problems with that-the most notable of which is the sweetness of the power if held for too long.

Channeling is also tiring. Tiredness and negotiations are not the best combination possible.

 

That's like showing up to negotiations and pointing loaded M4s in everyone's faces.

I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this. The results can be....messy.

[sillyman]

id balefire rands soul but not his body so we have constant LTT madness (probably not possible but eh)

 

"Watching. Watching. I see you. Who sees me?"

 

[Cherise]

id balefire rands soul but not his body so we have constant LTT madness (probably not possible but eh)

 

 

I really like Lews Therin, too.  I am intrigued by the idea of Lanfear taking Rand away, and Lews Therin coming back.

[sillyman]

I dont think it would actually be LTT that came back although with any luck LTT will play a part in TG

[Dakeyras]

That's like showing up to negotiations and pointing loaded M4s in everyone's faces. 

 

Invisible M4s perhaps. Nynaeve and Cadsuane were holding the power but had masked it. There's no evidence that if it was Tuon, she had the means of sensing saidin. Nor even that Semirhage had the ability. Really all of them apart from Rand were holding the power.

 

That said I do disagree with Sabio. LTT taking the power in a negotiation were you need a positive outcome is far too big a risk.

[Sabio]

Well in my defense I did say well in advance of going there.  Once there was a bit late to try.  He will have try to take hold of the power again sooner or later.

 

 

Invisible M4s perhaps. Nynaeve and Cadsuane were holding the power but had masked it. There's no evidence that if it was Tuon, she had the means of sensing saidin. Nor even that Semirhage had the ability. Really all of them apart from Rand were holding the power.

 

I think it would of been a big mistake if he had went there assuming their channelers wouldn't be holding the power.  Plan for the worse.

[Dakeyras]

It all depends on whether or not Lews Therin can take control of the power from Rand whilst Rand is the one holding it. He hasn't been able to thus far but then until KoD he hadn't been able to beat Rand in getting to it. I doubt Rand knows either.

 

I don't think he went there asumming no one was channeling. He admits to either Bashere or Logain that it's likely to be a trap(I think). You just have to understand what Rand has resting on a succesfull negotiation. He needs the Seanchan onside if he's to win Tarmon Gai'don. It wouldn't look good if that was really Tuon, LTT takes the power and he kills her would it?

[Great Lord of the Dark]

my sister

[wvlr]

Since you asked:

 

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

 

AND FAILE!!!!!!!

 

Sorry I just could not resist!      The Shame!!!!!!

 

[Hybrid]

Since you asked:

 

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Caddy

Hopefully, you would not balefire her back beyond the Cleansing, thereby dooming the world... ;) (I'm not trying to restart our argument)

[Mr Ares]

my sister

This would be the Great Lady of the Dark? What would be the consequences of this balefiring? Would we Dragonmounters be better off for her death?

[muddasssir]

ppl u r getting carried away who gives  damn about consequences of bale firing egwene gawyn or faile without these three there would have been three better characters to replace them we wouldn't really have to wade through tons of stupidity

[Mr Ares]

People, you are getting carried away. Who gives a damn about the consequences of balefiring Egwene, Gawyn or Faile? Without these three, there would have been three better characters to replace them, and we wouldn't really have to wade through tons of stupidity.

I'd say the consequences of such a hypothetical balefiring are more interesting than simply picking out the characters we don't like, most of them the same people that come up time and time again. Do we really need any more posts dedicated to people saying they don't like Faile or Elayne? We have enough of them. Change the record, or at least get the needle out of the groove it's stuck in. Get rid of those three, regardless of the fact all have their fans, and who says you would get three "better" characters? Better for who? Where do these better characters come from, who are they? And maybe you'll have to wade through tons of their "stupidity" as well. If you get rid of Egwene, who will reunite the Tower? How? What if Gawyn was never in the story? Would Min, Siuan and Leane have escaped the WT, or would they be prisoners, or dead? What about Logain? Does he escape? Commit suicide? Ever go to the rebels? Ever get Healed? Ever join the Asha'man? Your way allows all the people who don't like a specific character to say they don't like him or her. My way allows us to rewrite the series, have some fun, and not get stuck with 2,000 posters saying they don't like Faile, because we really don't need that. Anyway, Faile hate is so last season.

[Sabio]

Anyway, Faile hate is so last season

 

Crap, I am always so behind the times.  Who are we suppose to hate this year?

[Hybrid]

Anyway, Faile hate is so last season

 

Crap, I am always so behind the times.  Who are we suppose to hate this year?

 

I nominate Elayne.

[wvlr]

But I am so in harmony with my Faile Hate and Caddy Hate.    It soothes my sole to hear 2000 other postings chant to the same rhythm