Channelers at the Last Battle.

[Luckers]

Enough of this. Calm down all of you.

 

Ravik, you especially need to back off. Your actions are completely unacceptable. Don't push me on that.

 

Ares, you need to back down too.

 

Cockta... continue as you were. Perhaps try not to offer threats on our behalf. Maj and I are pretty good at that, especially against each other. Lol.

[Cockta]

Enough of this. Calm down all of you.

 

Ravik, you especially need to back off. Your actions are completely unacceptable. Don't push me on that.

 

Ares, you need to back down too.

 

Cockta... continue as you were. Perhaps try not to offer threats on our behalf. Maj and I are pretty good at that, especially against each other. Lol.

 

Hehe, can do Luckers  ;)

 

Yeah, where was I? God, I can't even remember where I was, it was so many pages ago...  :(

[Majsju]

You really never have heard that moderators tend to ban people if they get irritated by someone, and the person that is banned, often is the person that irritates, so I wouldn't poke at people like Majsju, and Luckers, because they will ban you, maybe not permanetnly, but for a period, that's for sure.

 

Aside from what Luckers said, I want to make a few things clear.

 

Moderators does not ban anyone. If we find someones actions unacceptable, we will make a report to people above us in the foodchain, and have a discussion regarding what action should be taken.

And it takes more than just irritating us for this to happen. A lot more. But I would not recommend testing the limits ;D

 

So, enough about that. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

[Cockta]

Right, but I still can't remember where I was, and waht I was talking about. This discussion has left me rather confused.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I believe we were talking about channelers at the Last Battle...

 

...and quite possibly why it would be necessary to seal the bore vs. filling it up (given the concept that it is a "hole").  It was also suggested that the "hole" is not so much a hole like "put something in it and fill it up" but simply a seperation if you will in the Pattern that would be necessary to heal and also one that allowed the Dark One to peek through and affect the world with his chaotic plans.

 

 

 

Curious...when Nynaeve Healed Logain, Siuan and Leane she spoke of a sense of something being "cut" and she directed a full flow of saidar into the cut in Logain.  When she did this she said it seemed as though the "hole" was immense and would swallow her up, but she did not refer to the thing needing to be Healed as a "hole" but rather a sense of something being "cut".  I wonder if this is a reflection of how one would seal the Bore.

[Cockta]

Maybe so, it does make sense.

[Charlz Guybon]

Shouldn't it be rather easy for the Shadow to take out a large percentage of the damane in a preemptive strike? Just have a couple of dozen myrdraal pop out of the shadows in the damane kennel in Ebu Dar and have them go to work. The damane will be helpless since they're not linked to their suldam. Any guard posted since the Mat/Sea Folk incident would likely be insufficient to stop them, especially given their lack of experience with shadow spawn.

[Luckers]

Perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on the nature of the guards posted, and that may have increased given the knowledge that Traveling has been rediscovered.

 

At the moment I'd say the shadow are more hoping for a war between Rand and the Seanchan in which case damane numbers are important. That will soon become hopeless and I guess we'll see then what's what.

[Kura]

Hehe, after reading this topic I can't help but think of what would happen if the DO won and made time chaotic. the "Scatter Plot of Time" if you will.    ;)

 

All joking aside I sincerly doubt that the OP will be overly involved in the sealing of the bore, I have more faith in either the ta'veran 'weaving' the bore shut in the pit of doom (which now that I think about it brings up an interesting point to be discussed later), or Cloglord's theory that the bore will be sung shut. If that has been disproved by any hard facts let me know; I've been gone from the forums since january.

[Cockta]

Lol, just imagine all the soldiers that are with Rand at SG, singing on the top of their lungs  ;D

[Kura]

Lol, just imagine all the soldiers that are with Rand at SG, singing on the top of their lungs  ;D

 

Hmm, that particular explanation could be it. All the soldiers singing terribly! The DO is older than time- he is an old man. He could simply close his window, the bore, in order to get away from the ruckus these youngin's are causing, and tada! The world is safe.

 

Now if only Rand had access to my powerful singing voice to aide this strategy...

[Cockta]

Yeah, but what would be the lyrics, and the melody itself?

[Charlz Guybon]

Another thing one has to take into account is that the Dark forces don't need to match the Light channeler for channeler, they just need to tie up enough of the Light in counterbattery fire for the Trolloc hordes to close with the Human armies and do their dirty work.

 

Lets say a Trolloc army comes out of the Shadow Coast and heads for Tanchico by way of Elmora. The Seanchan detect the army by raken and manage to assemble a force of 50,000 men and 50 damane outside of Elmora. If there are 150,000 Trollocs and a dozen dreadlords, I'd think the Trollocs win handedly. The dreadlords wait for the damane to open up on the Trollocs and then strike at them. The Damane will likely block the attacks made with saidar, but some of the men's attacks should get through and hit. From that point on a large percentage of the damane will be striking back at the dreadlords and not at the Trollocs. In this way a relatively small number of dreadlords can greatly lessen the advantage that the forces of light have in the number of channelers.

[Luckers]

Indeed, very true--and if you need proof of it concider Dumai's Wells. Somewhere between 200 and 400 Wise Ones assaulted 36 Aes Sedai, yet the Aes Sedai were holding until Rand broke free. Oh, they probably would have lost if he hadn't, but they had barely five hundred soldiers. In a same situation, had that had an army that dwarfed their enemies, they would have easily one--holding off the enemy channeling attacks whilst their army fought.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Again... new today to the forum, but a long time reader.  I can't dispute that there will undoubtedly be a boat load of channeling of all sources from both sides at TG.  But... I have always thought that we readers are going to be in for the biggest twist in the series.  Someone may have already mentioned singing and/or the "Song".  I truly think the "Song", the basis of the Tinker's constant search is going to come in to play folks.  Makes me think of the intro to snakes and foxes... Music / Light / Iron?  I believe this well be the basis for the final showdown and the new seal. 

[RAND AL THOR]

If at Tarmon Gaidon, Rand holds hands with Loial and sings "Baa baa black sheep" with Thom thrumming his harp in the background and if some magic sparkles from the larynx of the dragon reborn magically fix the Bore.......then I'm going to put the book down and erase the WoT from my memory.

 

Of course, knowing RJ, I'm expecting something much more dramamtic. Perhaps the Creator will take the Heavenly stage and give us a chorus of 'halleluyah?" (spe.)

[Fryn]

Well the growing song has been introduced early in the series and it does have the potential of being part of the answer. All hail the tinkers saviours of mankind?

[Luckers]

Again... new today to the forum, but a long time reader.  I can't dispute that there will undoubtedly be a boat load of channeling of all sources from both sides at TG.  But... I have always thought that we readers are going to be in for the biggest twist in the series.  Someone may have already mentioned singing and/or the "Song".  I truly think the "Song", the basis of the Tinker's constant search is going to come in to play folks.  Makes me think of the intro to snakes and foxes... Music / Light / Iron?  I believe this well be the basis for the final showdown and the new seal. 

 

Welcome to the boards mate.

 

My major problem with your idea is in effect. The Song, such as it was, helps living things grow. And its not even all that powerful. Someshta, the Green Man, had a much stronger gift in that area, and the Ogier too already have many Treesingers.

 

If the song had any form of military usage im sure it would have been discovered in the Age of Legends. And despite Tinker belief, it will not bring back the Age of Legends--Tinker belief is based on Aiel desire to regain the peace and high culture they had in the Age of Legends combined with faint memories of the seed singing--the Song as they invision it is not real. The real ability which is a Talent called the Voice may well help with the growing famine building in the Westlands due to tainted food, but yeah...

[Hybrid]

Also, the Song needs the Nym to really work well.  It worked off of the Aiel, Ogier, and Nym together, but Someshta was the last of the Nym.  In TSR's description of the song, the Nym were the ones who wove all the harmonies together, or something like that.  So I agree, the Song will likely not play a part in the sealing of the Bore.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Again... new today to the forum, but a long time reader.  I can't dispute that there will undoubtedly be a boat load of channeling of all sources from both sides at TG.  But... I have always thought that we readers are going to be in for the biggest twist in the series.  Someone may have already mentioned singing and/or the "Song".  I truly think the "Song", the basis of the Tinker's constant search is going to come in to play folks.  Makes me think of the intro to snakes and foxes... Music / Light / Iron?  I believe this well be the basis for the final showdown and the new seal. 

 

/quote]

 

Welcome to the boards mate.

 

My major problem with your idea is in effect. The Song, such as it was, helps living things grow. And its not even all that powerful. Someshta, the Green Man, had a much stronger gift in that area, and the Ogier too already have many Treesingers.

 

If the song had any form of military usage im sure it would have been discovered in the Age of Legends. And despite Tinker belief, it will not bring back the Age of Legends--Tinker belief is based on Aiel desire to regain the peace and high culture they had in the Age of Legends combined with faint memories of the seed singing--the Song as they invision it is not real. The real ability which is a Talent called the Voice may well help with the growing famine building in the Westlands due to tainted food, but yeah...

 

I guess I should have been more clear that there's be some kind of combinatin of channelling, Song/Light/Iron involved.  Again... "Music to ___, Light to Blind, Iron to Bind"?  I'm not sure that "THE SONG" needs to be the same as the seed song.  There could be a connection to growing though!!??  Couple more follow-up thoughts:

 

*  Not sure there was a need for investigating Military Uses of anything in the AOL as there were no wars & only peace right?

 

*  I'm thinking of the part during Rand's lookback in Rhuidian (sp), at the end of the AOL / Beginning of the breaking when all the AIEL joined hands and tried to face one of the crazy male Servants with a song...? 

* 

[Sabio]

I refuse to believe the tinkers aren't going to play some part, all the a@@ kickings they have taken over the ages they are due to play some part.  If nothinge else then to distract the DO at the last battle with their dance.

[Mr Ares]

Again... "Courage to Strengthen, Fire to Blind, Music to Dazzle, Iron to Bind"?

That is for dealing with the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn.

 

Not sure there was a need for investigating Military Uses of anything in the AOL as there were no wars & only peace right?

No. There was a war. Quite a big one. Right at the end. Remember? That little disagreement with the Shadow? Surely investigating military uses of anything would be of great help when you are within months of the Shadow overrunning you.

 

I'm thinking of the part during Rand's lookback in Rhuidian (sp), at the end of the AOL / Beginning of the breaking when all the AIEL joined hands and tried to face one of the crazy male Servants with a song...?

And they succeeded in distracting him for quite a while before he finished killing them all and destroyed the city. Which will be very useful if the Light plans on using the Tinkers to provide a distraction by putting on a show, and fighting back when it comes to the big, all singing, all dancing, musical finale! The only thing that could possibly go wrong is if both Light and Shadow have an equal hatred of Vaudeville and join together to wipe it from the face of the earth.

 

The only songs we know of with any power (at least, any power beyond that possible for any music to possess) are the Treesongs of the Ogier (which humans can't use) and the seed songs of the Da'shain Aiel, which are good at growing things but not much else, so far as we have seen. Then the Aiel out looking for a place of safety forget the songs, but remember that they used to sing. And remember the good times of the AoL. Then a bunch of them leave to go looking for a song which will bring back the AoL. Seed songs are almost certainly what they are looking for, not that they know it.

[Luckers]

Also, the Song needs the Nym to really work well.  It worked off of the Aiel, Ogier, and Nym together, but Someshta was the last of the Nym.  In TSR's description of the song, the Nym were the ones who wove all the harmonies together, or something like that.  So I agree, the Song will likely not play a part in the sealing of the Bore.

 

Some have suggested that the reports of giants in Shara might refer to surviving Nym. Given the reports include a description of them having faces in their stomachs i rather doubt it, but still its out there.

 

I guess I should have been more clear that there's be some kind of combinatin of channelling, Song/Light/Iron involved.  Again... "Music to ___, Light to Blind, Iron to Bind"?  I'm not sure that "THE SONG" needs to be the same as the seed song.  There could be a connection to growing though!!??  Couple more follow-up thoughts:

 

The Song is a myth. It never existed. We see its birth in the Rand's Aiel History Trip when he witnesses the Lost Ones break with the Aiel seeking after the peace and security they knew in the Age of Legends; a place where they might sing beautifully as their ancestors did.

 

That desire evolved into the modern concept of the Song... but it does not exist. The closest thing is the Aiel seed singing, and that will not bring back the Age of Legends, for all that it would prove useful in the coming famine.

 

Music to dazzle is the phrase you were looking for by the by, and that is a weakness of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn, and is hardly useful. That weakness too was known in the War of the Power--if anything could be extorted from the Finns it would have been done then.

 

*  Not sure there was a need for investigating Military Uses of anything in the AOL as there were no wars & only peace right?

 

During the War of the Shadow the Light devoted itself to weaponising its culture. Including the weaponisation of civillian fashion in the form of the Fancloth (what is now the warder cloaks), and civillian transports in the jumpers and so forth. The Ogier and the Nym were set to peace keeping, the children were taken at the age of ten to be trained as soldiers....

 

Myself, i dont see them not pausing to concider the potential use of the Voice. There was none. It grows things, nothing else.

 

*  I'm thinking of the part during Rand's lookback in Rhuidian (sp), at the end of the AOL / Beginning of the breaking when all the AIEL joined hands and tried to face one of the crazy male Servants with a song...? 

 

Ten thousand Aiel sung to Jaric Mondaren to distract him whilst the citizens of Tzora fled. He killed all of them, and then went on to Paaren Disen and presumably destroyed that city too. It was heroic and noble, but they still died.

[Hybrid]

Besides buying time for the citizens to flee, the Aiel were also trying to remind Jaric Mondoran of who he was and return him to sanity, though their effort was futile.

[Falcons Fall]

I think you are all pretty confused. The Light at the moment, and I'm assuming in AMOL as well, is pretty messed up. All over the ENTIRE world, the DO's orders have been to "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". It seems to me that they've done a good job. Moridin is going around tearing holes in the pattern to get around. Semirhage comepletely destroyed the Seanchan Imperial family and court. Graendal has broken the Sharans sacred Sh'botay and Sh'boan 7 year rule, and no one knows how much havoc that has caused in Shara. The Aes Sedai, even the non Black Ajah ones, are all at eachothers throats, aka sisters being assaulted by other sister within the White Tower, and is growing worse by the day thanks to Alviaran/Mesaana. The rebels have their fair share of dissension within as well, although Halima was uncovered later on. Randland is completely racked by war, famine, and strife, thanks to chaos and the spoiling food.

 

In KoD Rand said he hoped to break the seals himself before the pattern starts unravelling completely. You know about those ripples that happened to Faile, Mat, and Perrin? I'm pretty sure that's the pattern completely loosening. So by the time Rand has to break the Seals, everyone is probably still going to be tearing eachother apart. Likely the 12 Gholam will be running around trying to kill the most powerful Aes Sedai, aka Elaida, Egwene, Elayne, Rand, Cadsuane. And Mat.

About them needing millions of Trollocs to fullfill the Tarmon Gai'don, they sent hundreds of thousands in something of an effort to kill Rand. A single person. Not to mention someone mentioned that those hundreds of thousands of Trollocs and Myrdraal were going to be a small taste of the last battle, and that the world would forget Dumai's Wells in what was to come. The Trolloc Wars were - what? 400 years long? - and they said the land was literally flooded with trollocs. imo, the world doesn't stand a chance either way.

 

Not to mention the dark one litterally being free, or if you forgot Rands trip to Rhuidean where he saw the Bore drilled by Lanfear, a huge city of the AOL completely destroyed by the ground errupting in obsidian fire, simply because he was free. Wonder what he'll do when the pattern is already half destroyed? A bunch of fire?

 

my 2 cents :)