Channelers at the Last Battle.

[Cockta]

Haj suti vise Ravik, nisi vise interesantan.

Усташо нисам ти дао дозволу да причаш. Only when spoken to.

A(cos(bt)+i*sin(bt))?

 

Ali neznam cirilicu!

[Guest Ravik]

Ne znaš ni gramatiku. Negacija + glagol se piše odvojeno, tako da je "NE ZNAM" a ne "neznam". Ali se plašim da si ipak razumeo šta sam napaisao.

[Majsju]

Ok kids, fun is over. The language we use here is English. The occasional comment in other languages is one thing, but more than that, use PM.

[Mr Ares]

The book references show him more as a destroyer than a controler.

Week 9 Question: We've read in the Forsaken's POVs that channeling in the Pit of Doom would have some...unpleasant...effects. Is this related to the nature of the opposition of the One Power to the True Power or is it the Dark One consciously acting against the channeler? If so, why should the Dark One care?

 

Robert Jordan Answers:It is a matter of the Dark One consciously acting, though interactions between the One Power and him, the source of the True Power, can be unpredictable. The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He…dislikes…things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak. Combine these two facts, and anyone channeling in the Pit of Doom without permission can expect swift punishment on the assumption that failure to ask permission means you intend to do something he won't like. It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn. Myself, I'd sell you short in a skinny minute.

Whatever is left when He is done remaking the world, He intends to control. Unless you are suggesting that nothing, not even sub-atomic particles, will be left once He is finished? Either way, it's not good news for mere humanity. If there is anything left, He plans to control it.

 

Didn't the portal stone take Rand to a world where the DO won

No.

(well where Hawkwing lost)

Yes

and becuase he won everything was dead?

No. There were grolm there. We didn't see any humans, but that's not necessarily indicative of anything particularly sinister. Could just be a human free area.

 

But seriously' date=' I totally agree with you Fryn. The DO doesn't share power. Now he does share power, to some extent, but that is because he is not completely free, and still needs his Chosen ones to do his dirty work.[/quote']Who was claiming he wants to share power? That is certainly not in His nature.

 

that is going to take the One Power' date=' I'm quite sure it is not going to be done with glue or planks.[/quote']Not done with glue or planks is the only possible alternative to the OP? Glad we could sort that out. In other words, it will take the OP because you say so.

Are you trying to be funny or clever? Because you failed at both.

I was pointing out that you gave no reason other than your say so for your claim that only the OP could be used for sealing the Bore. Apparently it went over your head. Do you have any reason beyond because I say so? Because you certainly didn't share it in that post. That the ta'veren abilities of the three boys put together could seal the Bore is a theory I have seen, and one you don't account for. There may be others.

 

You look like a Man. Utd. fan' date=' therefore you are probably an Englishman, you should have heard for a guy called Bertrand Russel.[/quote']Is there a section of the English public less likely to have heard of Bertrand Russel than Man U fans (Maj is an exception)? Chelsea fans, I suppose, but aside from them?

 

And just who are you to question me? I most certainly am an authority in the field of philosophy' date=' that is beyond any question.[/quote']Is it? What claim do you have to being an authority? Beyond the obvious answer of "because I say so".

 

While we're at it, why don't I bring this up: "linear: Having the form of a line; straight." Straight. As in, not curved. So, linear can be used in the way RJ used it, to describe time as a straight line as opposed to a circle. Unless you wish to ignore how RJ and Maj are using the term in favour of claiming your definition is the only one. IT IS NOT. Screw the physics, the mathematics and the philosophy and just have a look at a bloody dictionary.

 

I am from Sweden' date=' and Majsju is a Swedish word. Well, perhaps rather a term than a word...[/quote']But you're not going to tell us what it means?

[Majsju]

Is there a section of the English public less likely to have heard of Bertrand Russel than Man U fans (Maj is an exception)? Chelsea fans, I suppose, but aside from them?

 

*sniff* Is that scouser I smell?

 

But you're not going to tell us what it means?

 

If you want to know, it means Major 7.

[Mr Ares]

*sniff* Is that scouser I smell?

No. They're about as likely as the Mancs to have heard of him, and Arsenal supporters are about the same level.

[Majsju]

*sniff* Is that scouser I smell?

No. They're about as likely as the Mancs to have heard of him, and Arsenal supporters are about the same level.

 

If there is any club whose supporters are likely to have heard about Russel, it is United, for the simple reason that we have the most supporters in the world:D

[Cockta]

ok, im not really into football, or soccer as the americans call it, though I have never heard that Manchester United have the most fans around the world, of all the football clubs. Again, I do not know a lot about football, and I am just asking if you could give a link to where it says that Man. Unt. have the most supporters in teh world.

[Guest Ravik]

Well, the hole was first drilled then sealed with the OP in the Age of Legends. How else can it be sealed? That hole is suppose to be a link betwen the Wheel and that beyond it, not an hole in the ground that can just be filled with earth. Are you serious?

As for the Russel thing, since you are kind of slow apparently, I'll explain. Since Majsju is displaying Man.Utd. colors I thought we was an Englishman, an average Englishman is more likely to have heard of Russel than an average (say) Mexican, since Russel was himself an Englishman. As for the "screw physics, mathematics and philosophy" part, I know you don't mean it, it is just your lack of education speaking. If you ask me politely enough, I'll explain the parts that are unclear to you.

[Majsju]

ok, im not really into football, or soccer as the americans call it, though I have never heard that Manchester United have the most fans around the world, of all the football clubs. Again, I do not know a lot about football, and I am just asking if you could give a link to where it says that Man. Unt. have the most supporters in teh world.

 

Newspaper makes lists a couple of times every year, and United has been #1 for quite a few years. And it is not only football, United has the most fans regardless what sport we are talking about. But then, since football is the biggest sport in the world, it makes sense that biggest football club also is the biggest club all categories. In second place one of the Spanish clubs comes, but I can not remember if it is Barca or RM.

 

Well, the hole was first drilled then sealed with the OP in the Age of Legends. How else can it be sealed? That hole is suppose to be a link betwen the Wheel and that beyond it, not an hole in the ground that can just be filled with earth. Are you serious?

 

And yet, the far more knowledgable LTT tried sealing the bore with Saidin, and utterly failed. Rand has nowhere near the knowledge LTT had, and he does not have 113 companions with a similar knowledge of channeling.

It is also wirth looking at the actual drilling of the bore. If the OP had been used sealing it, you would think that there would be at least a miniscule trace of it left. But there was not.

And if channeling is the key to sealing the bore, why would Mat and Perrin be crucial to the success? They are not channelers.

[Cockta]

Maybe because they are ta'veren.

[Majsju]

Maybe because they are ta'veren.

 

And having three ta'veren connected to eachother just might indicate that something out of the ordinary is about to happen...

[Guest Ravik]

Mat and Perrin are key to winning the battle not to the sealing. Rand thought of a way to clense saidin, he will figgure something out. Perhaps the reason for there not being any trace of the sealing is because the actuel prison is outside of the Wheel?

[Cockta]

Ups, my bad. They are key to winning the batle, not the sealing. BTW, have you checked your PM lately Ravik?

[Majsju]

Winning the battle = sealing the bore. That is what it is all about.

 

The shadows objective: Help the DO break free.

The Lights objective: Stop the DO from breaking free. Unless Rand plans to live forever, only way to achieve this is to seal the bore.

[Guest Ravik]

Yes, but isn't the DO free? Now he has to be traped again somehow.

[Majsju]

No, the DO is not free. During the War of Power, the bore was not big enough to allow full escape, and right now there is also the matter of the seals.

[Guest Ravik]

What about Shaidar Harran? Isn't that the DO?

[Fryn]

What about Shaidar Harran? Isn't that the DO?

 

Nope. In fact in his PoV he thinks about getting out of the grip of the DO. Mentioning his strength is tied to the bore. This is fron the encyclopaedia-wot site: He feels achy and weak, too long away from Shayol Ghul. He badly wants to find a way to sever that tie.

[Guest Ravik]

Didn't the DO say something like "when you obey SH you obey me". Could it be that the DO is partialy free? What about that thin with Alviarin? Could it be that Rand screwed something bigtime with all that balefire in the fight with Rahvin and got the DO free?

[Luckers]

What about Shaidar Harran? Isn't that the DO?

 

Nope. In fact in his PoV he thinks about getting out of the grip of the DO. Mentioning his strength is tied to the bore. This is fron the encyclopaedia-wot site: He feels achy and weak, too long away from Shayol Ghul. He badly wants to find a way to sever that tie.

 

He never states that he wishes to escape the Dark One's control, he states that when he spends too much time away from Shayol Ghoul he becomes weak, and that he wants to stop that from happening--all that serves to show is that he is connected to the bore.

 

Quite probable is the idea that Shadar Haren contains some small element of the Dark One's consciousness--far from his entire being, that is impossible, even were the seals completely gone. The Dark Ones nature is simply too large to fit through the bore--but still, an element of his mind. An avatar if you would.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

What about Shaidar Harran? Isn't that the DO?

Shaidar Haran is permanently inhabited by a shadowy version Shai'tan's conciousness.

 

If there is any club whose supporters are likely to have heard about Russel' date=' it is United, for the simple reason that we have the most supporters in the world:D[/quote']Of course! Get enough people together and the odd intelligent person is bound to slip through! Does show up how flawed Ravik's "logic" was, though.

 

Well, the hole was first drilled then sealed with the OP in the Age of Legends. How else can it be sealed? That hole is suppose to be a link betwen the Wheel and that beyond it, not an hole in the ground that can just be filled with earth. Are you serious?

Who is suggesting that it be filled in with earth? It is a hole in the Pattern, so maybe the Pattern would be capable of healing/repairing itself, if it were free of Shai'tan's malignant influence. Likewise, something that can affect the Pattern, like ta'veren, for example. Like I previously mentioned. You would know that if you actually bothered to read my post properly. Rand, Mat and Perrin will all be needed to save the world, all are ta'veren, you can see why someone might think that had something to do with the answer, especially when only Rand can channel of those three. And in a channeling fight they would be up against a god.

As for the Russel thing, since you are kind of slow apparently, I'll explain. Since Majsju is displaying Man.Utd. colors I thought we was an Englishman, an average Englishman is more likely to have heard of Russel than an average (say) Mexican, since Russel was himself an Englishman.

Perhaps. I still wouldn't put the chances of the average Englishman of having heard of him, or knowing much more about him than the name, as all that high. Not that your name dropping of said philosopher is at all relvant to anything. Even to your own post. Seems like you just dropped it in to show you had heard of a philosopher. David Hume. Friedrich Nietzsche. As someone who professes great knowledge of philosophy as if this is supposed to impress anyone, you have probably heard of them.

As for the "screw physics, mathematics and philosophy" part, I know you don't mean it, it is just your lack of education speaking. If you ask me politely enough, I'll explain the parts that are unclear to you.

And here your lack of education shines through, as you missed the point I made. Crap like this: "Nonlinear equations and functions are used to represent chaos, this is done in mathematics and physics" are not relevant to the debate, true though they may be. Because linear, in the sense that Maj and RJ and most everyone else round here was using it, was to do with straight lines. Nothing to do with mathematics or physics, everything to do with english.

 

WinespringBrother: "Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?"

 

Jordan: "I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not: Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It’s as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature…it is the Dark One in shadowy form."

 

WinespringBrother: "Is it twenty four seven, or just part time?"

 

Jordan: "Twenty four seven."

 

- Robert Jordan at Dragoncon

[Guest Ravik]

You didn't even writte Nietzsche properly  :). The reason I was pushing the linear thing so much is because you persist in using an inapropriate term. You realy aren't that bright are you? :) No mater, you amuse me to no end. :) I really don't understand what your trying to say with this sealing the Bore thing.

Please, explain at length and embarase yourself a bit more. :)

[Cockta]

You really never have heard that moderators tend to ban people if they get irritated by someone, and the person that is banned, often is the person that irritates, so I wouldn't poke at people like Majsju, and Luckers, because they will ban you, maybe not permanetnly, but for a period, that's for sure.

[Mr Ares]

You didn't even writte Nietzsche properly  :).

Yes. I can see why you might say that in the absence of an actual point. Everyone makes typing errors from time to time.

The reason I was pushing the linear thing so much is because you persist in using an inapropriate term.

Maybe you should explain why the term is inappropriate then. Given that I have explained in a way that I felt even you would have picked up on. Straight line is an acceptable and entirely correct definition of linear. It is the one everyone was using. Just because you cannot be bothered to look in an english dictionary and see that, you persist in saying that the way you use the term is the only way to use the term. It isn't. Check a dictionary. I even quoted from one. Linear has a different meaning in mathematics, but that is not the one RJ was using, nor the one Maj was using. You arrogantly state that RJ made a mistake and that only you were using the term correctly. You were wrong. There really is precious little point arguing with someone who fails to grasp that. You admit you are from Serbia, so perhaps english isn't your first language. However, you refuse to acknowledge that people who do speak it as a first language have pointed out that linear can mean straight line. Prove me wrong. To do that, you'd need to look in a dictionary. To do that, you would see that you were wrong.

You realy aren't that bright are you? :)

Text book example of the pot calling the kettle black, wouldn't you say?

No mater, you amuse me to no end. :)

Shame I can't agree. I find you quite dull. Not intelligent, not interestingly stupid, just dull.

I really don't understand what your trying to say with this sealing the Bore thing.

Please, explain at length and embarase yourself a bit more. :)

No. I shall explain quickly. There may be other ways of sealing the Bore that don't require the Power. You ignore them but provide no real reason why they should be ignored.

 

I'm not sure if I embarased myself, there, largely because I think you just made the word up. I'm not sure who you mean is lacking a mother when you say "no mater" (or do you mean "no, mater", which would indicate an odd belief on your part you were talking to your mother. Something of a non sequiter). And really has 2 Ls, not one. That is, if you really want to get into the you-misspelled-that-word game. Martin Heidegger.

 

Linear: Of, relating to, or resembling a line; straight.

In, of, describing, described by, or related to a straight line.

1 arranged in or extending along a straight line

Of or pertaining to a line; consisting of lines; in a straight direction; lineal.

Having the form of a line; straight.

Having a straight or lengthwise direction.

 

A few dictionaries, there. Including Oxford and Cambridge. All saying linear=straight line. Liner time=time as straight line. Straight line=not a circle. Do you understand?