I Hate Min...WoT about you?

[Majsju]

I wonder how many would have blamed Min for Rands hand if Rand had been a woman, and Min a male bodyguard...

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

I wonder how many would have blamed Min for Rands hand if Rand had been a woman, and Min a male bodyguard...

UNQUOTE

 

Would the female Rand have been in love with the male bodyguard? If not then the female Rand would have dodged out of the way, since male bodyguards are expendable, whereas Min isnt. She insisted on going to that meeting. I do blame her for the hand, but not in the way you think. Min made it so that Semirhage blew it off by chance, rather than skill. Same outcome, but if Min hadnt been there, and if Rand fought at his fullest and STILL had his hand blown off, Semirhage would seem much more formidable, and I would be happy.

 

I blame Min for dimming Semirhages spotlight, not Rand losing the hand. Semirhage should have done that anyway, when Rand was able to fight at his best. If she had, I think that scene would have been better, regardless of what Min was doing.

[Jehaine]

It'd certainly give a nice twist to Elayne, Aviendha and Min being in love with him. Min would be male as per your genderswap, we can blame Aviendha on silly Aiel customs, but then we get to Elayne. Pregnant Elayne, of whom Rand would be the erm... second mother? Yet claims despite common sense proving the contrary that the kids are his/hers ;D.

 

Though it'd be fun to see the Aes Sedai try to cope with him then. No more gender based prejudice, (s)he'd be one of THEM!

 

*dramatic music plays*

 

Rand - *eyes Great Serpent ring around his finger* "Cadsuane, dear? Just checking, but if i were to, say, lose this hand, would i still need to wear this?"

 

---

 

*ahem* Topic. Right.

 

I actually like Min as well. Out of all the mains, i find her the most normal. She doesn't have any delusions of grandeur, or interest in vast riches. She can't channel, nor does she know the first thing about warfare. Even with her visuions, she could pass as a normal peasant girl and no one would look twice at her. Out of all the people in the Books, she is maybe of the least use to Rand as far as TG combat is concerned.

 

And that's what i like about her. She just wants to be with Rand, and is perfectly content with that, no buts, ifs and maybes. In a way, she's Rand's anchor to a normal (post-TG) life, and she can be wrong about stuff. And if that brooding emofest loses a hand over it, i shrug and keep reading. Min's only human after all *pats* ^^

[Majsju]

 

Would the female Rand have been in love with the male bodyguard? If not then the female Rand would have dodged out of the way, since male bodyguards are expendable, whereas Min isnt. She insisted on going to that meeting. I do blame her for the hand, but not in the way you think. Min made it so that Semirhage blew it off by chance, rather than skill. Same outcome, but if Min hadnt been there, and if Rand fought at his fullest and STILL had his hand blown off, Semirhage would seem much more formidable, and I would be happy.

 

I blame Min for dimming Semirhages spotlight, not Rand losing the hand. Semirhage should have done that anyway, when Rand was able to fight at his best. If she had, I think that scene would have been better, regardless of what Min was doing.

 

If that is the blame you want to put worth, you are quite misdirecting it. Min being there had no influence on Rands ability to fight. LTT attempting to seize Saidin, resulting in both Rand and LTT failing to seize it is what gave Semirhage the time to attack a defenceless Rand. So it is LTTs fault. Or Rands, for not allowing the more skilled LTT to handle the situation, though given what happened earlier, Rand can not really be blamed for not trusting LTT holding Saidin...

[Snowy Dawn]

``Min doesn't think she is 'all and all' because she's a woman (Aes Sedai) and she read Fel's books to better herself or become more of a help to Rand after Fel's death.''

 

Min's primary reason for reading Fel's books is that she finds them fascinating. It's just plain old intellectual curiosity on her part. . I, for my part, find Min's intellectual curiosity one of her endearing features.

 

I am also a little surprised that we haven't yet anything concerning a discussion between Sarene and Min about Fel's writings. You would think that they would find a mutual interest therein. Or, if not Sarene, how about Daigian? Such discussions might help take her mind of the death of Eben Hopwil.

[Safia al-Maaz]

I don't blame Min for Rand's hand, that was definitely more LTT's fault.  But I do not think she should have gone along, she should have known Rand would protect her over himself.  But then, there was speculation over a possible viewing she had in LoC when Rand said he would cut off his own hand before he hurt her, and she got this sad expression on her face and said she knew.  So if at that point she had a viewing about Rand losing his hand, she knew it was going to happen anyway and would rather be there than not.  So I don't think I can blame her for that. 

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

Mat carries the wolfhead that no Aes Sedai has ever seen or heard of.

 

???

'Tis Perrin, my lad.

[Snowy Dawn]

``Mat carries the wolfhead that no Aes Sedai has ever seen or heard of.''

 

You mean the foxhead medallion that Mat received from the 'Finns when he went thru' the doorframe in Rhuidean. But one Aes Sedai, or rather an ex-Aes Sedai, who may yet be restored to that status, viz., Setalle Anan, has seen it. It is Setalle's reaction to being shown that medallion that leads Mat to realize that she was formerly an Aes Sedai.

[42Bonzo88]

    Thank you Snowy Dawn and RAND AL THOR, Foxhead medallion. My Bad!

 

    As bad as my memory is I'm surprised I didn't say wormhead. :D

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't blame Min for Rand's hand, that was definitely more LTT's fault.  But I do not think she should have gone along, she should have known Rand would protect her over himself.  But then, there was speculation over a possible viewing she had in LoC when Rand said he would cut off his own hand before he hurt her, and she got this sad expression on her face and said she knew.  So if at that point she had a viewing about Rand losing his hand, she knew it was going to happen anyway and would rather be there than not.  So I don't think I can blame her for that. 

 

Possible viewing or not, LTT or not, had she not been there Rand could/would have simply ducked or dodged.  Problem solved.  Hand still attached.  Vision still clear.

[Majsju]

Had Rand not insisted that Min ride behind him instead of besodes him, he could have dodged.

If he had seized Saidin before going there, so LTT would not have the incentive to desperatly jump for Saidin, he could have defended himself.

 

When a body is shared by an idiot and a madman, bad things are bound to happen.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

Why it doesn't occur to any of them to use that Technicolor Ta'veren Telepathy for something useful is the question.

 

it is MUCH harder than you think.  i've done these 'find waldo'[/a place] activities in class, and they're not pretty. even given all the geographical information we could ever need(short of 'human'-related aspects - roads, cities, etc.), the extremely vast majority of the class couldn't find their given locations.

 

you don't always get to 'pose' infront of the sydney opera house, the eiffel tower, or alcatraz...

 

 

overall, its only really good for seeing if the person is alive or not or in extremely unique locations(ala the blight).

[RAND AL THOR]

Why it doesn't occur to any of them to use that Technicolor Ta'veren Telepathy for something useful is the question.

 

Medieval video conferencing. :D

[Shard]

As the series wore on, the more tired I grew of Min.  The straw that broke the camel's back for me was her insistence of going to meet the Daughter of the Nine Moons.  Everyone was of the opinion that it was probably a trap, but she insisted on going.  There was, quite literally, no way she was indispensable to that meeting.  Her viewings would not say something to the effect of "She will betray you in five minutes" and had it been legit, then she would have had the opportunity to view her later on.  She cost Rand his hand and clouded his thinking when he needed as few distractions as possible.

 

As my brother put it: "I wanna go!  I'm useless!"

 

The point of her being there was to be his anchor to sanity as it was shortly revealed that he WAS hearing Lews Therin in his head. The only thing that kept him sane was having Min there to reassure him that she loved him even though he had Lews in his head.

 

We don't know what would have happened had she not been there. I'm not sure it would have been better.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

If that is the blame you want to put worth, you are quite misdirecting it. Min being there had no influence on Rands ability to fight. LTT attempting to seize Saidin, resulting in both Rand and LTT failing to seize it is what gave Semirhage the time to attack a defenceless Rand. So it is LTTs fault. Or Rands, for not allowing the more skilled LTT to handle the situation, though given what happened earlier, Rand can not really be blamed for not trusting LTT holding Saidin

UNQUOTE

 

If you look carefully at what I said Maj I said, I said I blame Min not for Rand not being able to fight, but the fact that she was there, stood behind Rand, meant that he couldnt move, meaning the only reason Semirhage blew off his hand was because he couldnt move out of the way without Min being hurt. In no way did I say she was the reason Rand couldnt fight; I said she was the reason he couldnt dodge.

[Majsju]

If you look carefully at what I said Maj I said, I said I blame Min not for Rand not being able to fight, but the fact that she was there, stood behind Rand, meant that he couldnt move, meaning the only reason Semirhage blew off his hand was because he couldnt move out of the way without Min being hurt. In no way did I say she was the reason Rand couldnt fight; I said she was the reason he couldnt dodge.

 

Oh really?

 

Min made it so that Semirhage blew it off by chance, rather than skill. Same outcome, but if Min hadnt been there, and if Rand fought at his fullest and STILL had his hand blown off, Semirhage would seem much more formidable, and I would be happy.

 

Min did no such thing. Had LTT not made Rand bounce away from saidin, Rand could have defended himself. Had rand not insisted that Min ride behind him instead of besides him, Rand could have jumped down to crawl around in the mud (while Semi could have flinged more fireballs at the still defenceless Rand).

 

Rands first reaction is to seize saidin and fight back, it is only when he fails that jumping becomes an issue. So Mins being there is completely irrelevant to Rands ability to fight at his fullest. Once he managed to seize saidin, the fight would have been over.

 

LTTs madness and Rands disrespect for Min cost him his hand.

[Guest Dreadlord]

My point was that Rand couldnt dodge out of the way of the fireball because Min was behind him. The fact that Lews Therin got involved is irrelevant to my post. What I meant was that Semirhage only blew Rands hand off because Rand couldnt dodge out of the way, and I was saying it means Semirhage didnt do it out of skill, but because Rand was caught flatfooted.

 

What I said about Rand fighting, I meant that Semirhage should have blown Rands hand off no matter what happened, even if Rand HAD been able to fight at his fullest. That way, Semirhage would seem more formidable even after she was captured.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

What I meant was that Semirhage only blew Rands hand off because Rand couldnt dodge out of the way

And because he couldn't fight back. Because of LTT.

[Majsju]

So why all this talk about Rand "fighting to his fullest"?

Dodging only became an issue when LTT stopped Rand from seizing saidin.

If Rand had not treated Min like property instead of a person, she would not have been behind him, so he could happily have jumped down to play around in the mud while the grownups took care of Semi.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Dodging only became an issue when LTT stopped Rand from seizing saidin.

UNQUOTE

 

THATS THE WHOLE POINT MAJ!!!! Jesus Christ is my point that hard to see? OK. After we have established that Rand couldnt fight because of Lews Therin and all that, FINE I GET THAT PART. So when Rand realises "OH SHIT I CANT CHANNEL LEWS THERIN IS BEING A PAIN IN THE ARSE" he thinks "OH SHIT I CANT MOVE OUT OF THE WAY COZ THE FIREBALL WILL GET MIN IF I DO"

 

So after Rand figures out he cant channel, he could still have moved out of the way and kept his hand, but Min was there, so he couldnt move.

 

It boiled down to Min being behind him, because even though Lews Therin was grabbing Saidin Rand could still move, yet he took the blow so Min wouldnt.

 

Get it? Probably not, Im not even guna check what the replies are

[Elgee]

I just want to say one thing:

 

Do you see the little QUOTE icon at the top right hand corner of other people's posts?

 

USE IT !!!!

[Guest Dreadlord]

No

[Majsju]

Using caps really does not make a post carry more weight, rather on the contrary.

 

I am glad you have come to realise that it was LTTs fault that Rand could not fight at his fullest.

 

After that, it is Rands fault for having so little respect for Min that he insists on her riding behind him like some kind of servant. He made an ignorant and idiotic decision, now he has to suck it up and deal with the consequences. Which he does.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Interpretations of whether chivalry is really a form of disrespect aside, Min was the one who insisted on coming.  Would it have been more respectful for him to insist on her staying behind? 

 

Exactly how is her lover supposed to behave in such a situation?  Where is the Warder supposed to place himself with respect to his Bond-holder? 

 

Rand reacted instinctively.  So did LTT.  So did Min.

 

Instinct was a poor guide for all of them.

[Shard]

I have a scenario to propose then, let's pretend Min stayed behind. Rand recognizes Semi and tries to stop her, LTT does the same preventing him from using Saidin. So he jumps, gets away and perhaps doesn't get injured like before. However Semi then goes on and reveals how Rand is hearing LTT and was unable to control the flow. Then Rand does the whole tetering on the edge of sanity bit and this time because Min isn't there he doesn't have his anchor and goes mad.