The Ways...

[ignavus1223]

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but how does everything think the Ways will be left...  Will they be cleansed or left tainted?

[Majsju]

The cleansing does not have any effect on Machin Shin, so they will stay the way they are.

[ignavus1223]

I understand that they are currently still tainted.  But do you think they'll be address in the next book?  After all, they will need to be cleansed at some point by the time the Third Age comes again, unless the Ways in the next turning of the Wheel are completely independent.

[Ahaz Flagg]

I understand that they are currently still tainted.  But do you think they'll be address in the next book?  After all, they will need to be cleansed at some point by the time the Third Age comes again, unless the Ways in the next turning of the Wheel are completely independent.

 

I guess it depends on what you think the forth age will be like.  It seems unlikley to me,  you would think that cleansing Sadian would have taken care of it. Since it did not, it proves that the Aes Sedai were finaly right on a point, that it is problay not connected to Saidan.

 

I think it is possible that the new age will find no more children able to channel, the Ogier will leave Randland, in that case, the waygates will maybe go also.

[Darth_Andrea]

I say Rand should go into the ways or at least open a gate and wait for the black wind them balefire it that will take care of it hehe.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

[dmanmiller34]

Yeah there is another thread out there with this same question on it. I know since i started it. I don't know how to link it but i ber if you go back 3 or 4 pages you'll run across it. But what it eventually came down to was a Qoute by RJ that says that the ways won't be healed anymore than a getting rid of the cause of a cancer cures the cancer.

[Majsju]

I understand that they are currently still tainted.  But do you think they'll be address in the next book?  After all, they will need to be cleansed at some point by the time the Third Age comes again, unless the Ways in the next turning of the Wheel are completely independent.

 

Next time the 3rd Age comes around, they have to not only be completely forgotten, but non-existing. The ways were grown by male Aes Sedai during the Breaking, as a thanks to the Ogier for providing them with a safe haven against the taint (the steddings).

 

The ways will become a think of the past, a myth. Until the next Breaking.

[DemandredFO]

In a way the Ways are clean now.  I don't know how they are on the inside but Machin Shin is gone or destroyed.  Moridin remarks that someone(Taim probably) posing as Sammael sent 100,000 Trollocs into the ways.  Then, the same number came out and attacked Rand at Algarin's.  Machin Shin should have feasted but apparently it didn't, so in some measure the Ways are to some extent clean.  That's my educated guess at least.

[dmanmiller34]

I don't think that the black wind was gone. Its still there. We know from expriance that it is possoble to travel the ways without meeting the balck wind. Heroes and Tollocs alike have done it a number of times. I think those 10k just got lucky.

[Angel of Death]

RJ has said that male channelers won't lost the madness, but wont get any worse either. So I imagine the same would be true of the ways. No more crumbling bridges and such. But no it won't get cleansed. And as to the trollocs. Is it possible Fain had something to do with it. After all isn't Machin Shin scared of him?

[DemandredFO]

dmanmiller34, yes trollocs and the heroes did get through the ways but much less than 100 at a time and yes, Rand's party and the others were 10 or so and they almost got caught.  This was even before Fain/Mordeth contacted Machin Shin.  It is possible that the black wind is still there but I doubt.  Fain wants Rand, Mordeth hates shadowspawn.  As I said before I believe that if the wind had been there it would have feasted.  100,000 is many, many times bigger than the safely unsafest amount of Shadowspawn to cross.  Perhaps the Black wind is still there but I think it more like gone and possibly under Fain's control or it was destroyed

[Majsju]

Would it [machin shin] be cleaned with the Cleansing of Saidin.

RJ: No. It’s like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless it’s feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it.

 

http://p079.ezboard.com/First-dragon-con-report/ftheorylandfrm30.showMessage?topicID=3.topic

[Luckers]

The cleansing does not have any effect on Machin Shin, so they will stay the way they are.

 

Well, certainly they weren't cleansed by the cleansing of saidin, but i dont know if it can be said that they will stay as they are. Ever since the encounter with Fain we have witnessed changes in the nature of Machin Shin--guarding gates, trying to escape, etc. And then in KoD a hundred thousand trollocs make it through (as has been stated before). And yes, we do know that numbers directly influence how quickly Machin Shin responds.

 

Machin Shin, being the single most obvious influence on the state of the ways is changing, and who is to say what effect that will have, or indeed has already had. We havn't seen the inside of the Ways since the fourth book.

 

Though i do agree, i dont see it becoming sunshine and lollipops anytime soon. Or ever.

[elmis]

In a way the Ways are clean now.  I don't know how they are on the inside but Machin Shin is gone or destroyed.  Moridin remarks that someone(Taim probably) posing as Sammael sent 100,000 Trollocs into the ways.  Then, the same number came out and attacked Rand at Algarin's.  Machin Shin should have feasted but apparently it didn't, so in some measure the Ways are to some extent clean.  That's my educated guess at least.

 

I've been seeing this 100 000 number several times now, both here and on the wotmania FAQ, and I don't get it. Moridin as you say, during that tea party said that someone posing as Sammael sent thousands of Trollocks and hundred Myrddraal through the ways. One Myrddraal usually bonds hundred trollocks, or what they call a Fist. 100 * 100 is 10 000. Might seem like a puny number, given all the big armies on the field now, but the were just attacking a small manor house with about 200ish people there (that's a rough guess, including any civilians there).

 

Even with Rand, the saldaeans, the Aes Sedai, the warders, the ogier, Logain and the rest of the Asha'man, 100 000 Trollocks would swarm them, regardless of whatever new weaves Lews Therin uses, if not there has to be like a billion of them during the last battle, for them to even have a chance. And a 'billion' hungry Trollocks would depopulate the borderlands, just for food, in a few weeks. ;)

[The Dragon Reborn]

I've been seeing this 100 000 number several times now, both here and on the wotmania FAQ, and I don't get it. Moridin as you say, during that tea party said that someone posing as Sammael sent thousands of Trollocks and hundred Myrddraal through the ways. One Myrddraal usually bonds hundred trollocks, or what they call a Fist. 100 * 100 is 10 000. Might seem like a puny number, given all the big armies on the field now, but the were just attacking a small manor house with about 200ish people there (that's a rough guess, including any civilians there).

 

Even with Rand, the saldaeans, the Aes Sedai, the warders, the ogier, Logain and the rest of the Asha'man, 100 000 Trollocks would swarm them, regardless of whatever new weaves Lews Therin uses, if not there has to be like a billion of them during the last battle, for them to even have a chance. And a 'billion' hungry Trollocks would depopulate the borderlands, just for food, in a few weeks. ;)

 

Remember that the new Dreadlords will even out the score significantly on that front....also who says the Trollocs will even be involved in a fight where channelers are present? They'll be fodder for Mats new weapons in my opinion. Also you're assume that The Last Battle will all be fought on the one playing field. If you ask me something along the lines of a Trolloc invasion will happen (through a now weakened Boarderlands.) While the channelers Last Battle could take place at Shayol Ghul perhaps...

 

On the food question, remember Trollocs are trust as happy to eat Trolloc too :P

[DemandredFO]

I'm pretty sure it was 100,000 but I'm not sure.  I have the audioversions and I haven't listened to it enough to supply a quote on demand.  Maybe someone with a paper copy could supply a quote.

[elmis]

Heh, no I don't expect it to be a long line of Trollocks on one side, and humans on the other. :)

 

I'm just saying it'll be a bit lopsided if 20 (30?) odd channelers (even with the big guns; Rand, Logain, Alivia, Nynaeve and Cadsuane), can blast away 100 000 Trollocks without too much trouble.

 

[The Dragon Reborn]

I don't know....those weaves were pretty hardcore!:o. Those deathgates could wipe out 100's if not 1000's of Trollocs a sec. Especially with 20-30 going at a time. Also remember the had somewhat advanced warning, the Trollocs were at a distance to begin with, giving the channelers a major advantage.

[TurboZ]

The ways became dark and tainted becaue they were grown with saidin which is what caused Machin Shin, right? Now that the male source is cleansed, could the ways be repaired with the Talisman of Growing, like saidin was cleansed.

[elmis]

Another point is that Rand has the Asha'man, and the Aes Sedai drag away bodies to be burned, Logain is upset over this, because it's wearing out his pet Aes Sedai. Lifting stuff with the power is the hardest thing to do, or one of the hardest anyway.

 

Dragging away 100 000 Trollocks, or 100 000 minus whatever the Deathgates ported away (heh, that might serve your point ;) ) would be a pretty tough job, days probably working the power from dawn to dusk.

 

To set up an example, remember Dumai Wells? There were about 40 000 dead Aiel there, and they didn't even bother to try to bury them, or even burn them, just too many. Lets say that the Deathgates took 60% (pure speculation) of the Trollocks away, that leaves about 40 000 Trollocks, and Trollocks being big, heads and shoulders larger than any man, that's the kilo equivalent of 60 000? aiel. Quite a job for a handfull of channelers. Heck, even 4 000 is would be a lot of work, but at least manageable. 

 

[TurboZ]

^^^What does that have to do with the Ways?

[elmis]

Heh, we just hijacked the thread. Sorry about that. To answer your question though, I don't think the Talisman of Growing would clean out the ways.

 

The Talisman of Growing is used to create a new Waygate, into the ways. You can read more about it here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=139 (halfway down the page)

[CrazyMike]

I do not believe there is any need for the Ways anymore...

  It is a definite fact that the Ways did not get cured or cleansed by the cleansing of Saiden, and as has been said "taking away the cause of a disease does not cure the disease" as example all of the Male channelers who were blighted by the taint on Saiden before the Cleansing are still blighted (Maddened) to the same degree they were imediately prior to the Cleansing;

  and Machin Shin is still as strong as ever, unless some other individual has gone into the Ways and killed or wounded it; unlikely;

  as to Machin Shin's absence from a feast of 100,000 trollics ??? it is possible he was feasting somewhere else on a lesser number of victims,,, if it was actively engaged in in eating something else at the time it would not have stopped in-order to chase down a bigger meal some distance away; a bird in the hand and all that?

    and as to the numbers of Trollics and Mydral being relevant; please remember Trollics do not have to be bound to a Mydral though they can be, and if they are, when the Mydral dies they die also,,, and Mydral do not have to be the master of 100 trollics , they can bind fewer, or none at all;;; they reason to have Mydral Bind Trollics is because Trollics are Basicly Cowardly animals, self serving and quarelsome, the Binding of Trollics by Mydral allows the Mydral to keep the Trolics under control and on point to complete their appointed mission even in the face of certain death, which certain death certainly existed at the Tea Party, and from which any self respecting Trollic would have quickly fled if he was able to, and as I believe some did, or maybe not, don't remember...

 

  But, back on topic, the ways can be ignored and avoided they did not exist Prior to the Tainting of the Male half of the Source and were not needed, they had traveling...

 

  I believe you are in sever error to believe the Ways were created "DURING" the Breaking,,, they Ways were created well before the Breaking but after the DO's Strike against the Source and the subsequent Tainting of Saiden; at a time when it appeared that the War against the DO had been won and peice and prosperity were soon to return, with an ongoing seek and destroy being conducted by the good guys against the DO's twisted minions,,, I believe that there was a period of about 100 years after the Taint and before the Breaking,,, it is during that time that the Ways were constructed...

[Wayhey]

If the quote actually said "thousands of Trollocs" and "hundreds of Myrdraal", then I would guess that RJ meant somewhat less than 10,000 Trollocs and somewhat less than a thousand Myrdraal--otherwise he would have used bigger figures.  There is just no way that 100,000 could attack a single manor house all at once in any case.

[CrazyMike]

Sorry WAYHEY, I disagree, tho I do not recall how many were said to have attacked, the possibility of 100,000 trollics attacking a single Farmhouse at the same time IS POSSIBLE,,, a lot of overkill calculated in to it but possible...

    It is not necessary that all 100,000 Trolics reach the target, only that enough reach the target to get the Job Done,,, and

    if I recall correctly, the trolics attacked from several different directions at once...

    I kinda look at it as if looking at a stadium for football, baseball, or soccor,,, or maybe the Olympics,,, and imagine the field is the farmhouse and the surrounding seats and the parking lot are filled with Trollics  :o yikes, oh my

  But as to what the actual numbers stated in the book were,,, I have no clue , other that to say many many  ;D