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Min's viewing in "The Great Hunt"


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I apologize if this has been answered previously, but here goes. I was just listening again to TGH and noticed something: late in the book, in Falme, Min has a viewing of Nynaeve and Elayne. Over Nynaeve's  head - a gold ring, which soon afterwards is identified as the ring Lan gave her. Over Elayne's - an axe and a hot iron. Min feels this is far in the future. Have these come up as yet in the later books? I don't recall anything like that, but maybe I have missed it.

 

Thanks.

 

LF

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The bloody hand and the white hot iron were viewings Min saw around Rand.

 

A bloody hand and a white hot iron [tEotW: Chapter 15 - Strangers and Friends]

 

Around Elayne Min sees a red hot iron and an axe, but no hand. It's possible the images are linked, but yeah... if so its fairly obscure--or else has not occured yet.

 

 

 

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they certainly could be linked, but an aspect of metalurgy would then become an issue.  It could read that the axe from one viewing would be the cause of the severed hand in the other, but the axe viewing is linked to a red hot iron, while the hand is linked to the white hot iron.  knowing something about blacksmithing from firsthand experience, white hot is as hot as metal gets before burning, red is relatively cool, so why would the iron be hotter post amputation than before?

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Well, the white hot iron - we know Elayne is having the captured BA sisters put to the question. And the axe? Perhaps she has them executed? Overstepping her authority, yes, but she already had their rings melted, shich she admits to herself is already well outside her authority, torturing them probably is too, so I don't see why she would have a problem ordering them executed once she finds out that their oaths are holding them and they can't talk about anything current no matter how pursuasive her questioner is.

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Overstepping her authority, yes

 

While I don't necessarily agree with your interpretation of the viewing, torturing and executing suspected Darkfriends does not in any way exceed Elayne's authority.  She is the ruler of an monarchy ... an absolute monarchy, as far as we know.  The Queen's edict is law, she is the final judge.  Its not like Andor is signatory to the Geneva Conventions.  She can have them tortured and executed any time she wants.

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I think that she, even as a Queen, would have to give black sisters back to the Tower for trial and stilling, as she's an Aes Sedai and that would be an Aes Sedai matter. Not too sure about it, but it seems like that is what she has planned anyway.

 

I've always thought the hot poker and bloody hand were signs of her self being put to the question, but that's purely speculation (and hope! :P) on my part.

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In a way RAW and Tyrell are both right. Elayne certainly has the right as head of a monarchy to do what she likes with prisoners in her domain but as Aes Sedai, she is surely bound by Tower Law to hand them over to Tower justice.

However, I'd say Tower Law comes 1st, especially seeing as that's surely how most Rulers would see it. The Amrylin certainly is considered by all to be above even the Rulers of Nations.

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However, I'd say Tower Law comes 1st, especially seeing as that's surely how most Rulers would see it. The Amrylin certainly is considered by all to be above even the Rulers of Nations.

 

A good equivalent might be the medieval Catholic church.  Elayne, as monarch has her laws to enforce but the laws of the Church would supercede that.  I think Egwene would be quite upset at Elayne if she does indeed torture and execute those Black Sisters...Egwene seems to be a stickler for the law. 

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Elayne might indeed get in trouble at the Tower, (as evidence, see Seonid's response to Perrin regarding Galina, KoD, ch 30 ).  But as the Queen of Andor, unless Andor has some kind of treaty with the Tower that says, "We will send all channeling Darkfriends to you for trial (which is unlikely given the fact that the Aes Sedai have repeatedly denied the existence of the Black Ajah for centuries) then she has the legal authority to do it.  As Amyrlin, Egwene can certainly give her penance or some such, in her role as Aes Sedai, and even could, I suppose, cast her out of the Tower (not that that is likely to happen).  But the authority of the Amyrlin Seat on sovereign rulers has, since Hawkwing, been one of influence, and not legal authority.

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well, the tower may claim that the BA has never existed, so in that example elayne would be torturing AS, and that would certainly cause some fits, i am sure. queen or not, you cannot torture, try or execute an AS except by way of the tower law without inflaming the wrath of the tower.

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