Elder Haman will be murdered

[Red States Rule!]

Elder Haman will be murdered and die a violent death at the hands of the Trollocs at a waygate.

 

Here's the proof:

1. Only a few waygates left, and waygates are supposedly only one of three possible ways for Trollocs to get far south without marching through the Borderlands. The others are possibly skimming, and Portal Stones.

 

2. The Ogier won't fight at Loial's word alone and will be outraged that their "leader" would be murdered in such a hasty fashion.

 

Agreed?

[Luckers]

It does seem possible, and we havn't had an ogier death yet... poor haman.

[Kaznen]

Trollocs can't skim for the same reason they can't Travel. To skim they still need to go through a gateway.

[Apoc]

And trollocs cant go thru gateways of OP.

[Smoosh]

And trollocs cant go thru gateways of OP.

 

where does it say that?

[Jellybelly]

Well, it was only the most prominent piece of information we were given during and after the attack on the mansion in Tear where Rand was hiding.

[loki redfern]

its writen somewhere or maybe an RJ quote that constructs of the power cannot travel via gateways, but maybe the could "tag along" when a mddryal was doing it shadow trveling thing

[Luckers]

Yeah, they just die.

[Red States Rule!]

What about the True Power?

[Luckers]

Thats a good question... with no known answer.

[Cam]

take that one all the way to RJ...

[Sweet 666]

It could be a possibility and i like the idea, but it might not come true. Most likely elder Haman will be traveling with one of Rands more trusted channelers prolly a dedicated. While the pair of them could travel fairly close to a waygate they would still need to be a ways out from it so Haman can find it. Since shadow spawn can be felt by channelers this would leave them ample time to feel them out. That would leave :shock: getting ambushed a fairly small possibility. It would be an exciting twist though.

[Luckers]

Indeed. Though i reckon that it'll be elder haman that takes the first word of the trolloc incursion to rand.

[Red States Rule!]

Ok so say they are up on a gate attempting to fix it and it swings open and Trollocs overwhelm the both of them.

 

One dedicated and an Ogier against 100,000 trollocs?

[Kadere]

I think Haman needs to die so that Loial can take his job. Loial's going to be the one to make them all come over, and with Haman's death, he'll have even more power to do it. I'll miss the big guy though. :cry:

[Luckers]

One dedicated would surely be able to hold the trollocs long enough to open a gateway away.

 

Though Hamans death may make the Ogier wanna fight, it may also make them decide to leave. Like... "this isn't our fight, and look how its killing our people."

 

Also, Haman's an elder. You become an elder through age. Loial couldn't take his job.

[Kadere]

Loial could totally take his job! He's awesome, he's now married, he's a friend of Rand, and let's face it: He's smarter then the other Ogier. It's going to be Loial's job to get the Ogier to join in the Last Battle, and the only why he can do that is with some authority, thus taking Haman's position after his death. Like, what if Haman dies and then, while dying, tells Loial he wants Loial to become an Elder because he's so smart. They can't refuse the dying wishes of Elder Haman, so BOOM! Loial's a top dog. If he can't be a top dog, I'm going to feel very sad for Loial.

[Luckers]

Loial's a puppy.

[RAND AL THOR]

I think Haman needs to die so that Loial can take his job. Loial's going to be the one to make them all come over, and with Haman's death, he'll have even more power to do it. I'll miss the big guy though.  :cry:

 

I hate it when the author kills wise and powerful leaders so that the younger characters with whom we are familiar can get those positions. It has happened in SO many books. I won't name them to avoid spoilers for others. ;D

[Quisalas Selene]

Without Haman speaking on Loial's behalf, he won't even be able to speak at the stump, he's too young.  He needs Haman there to say "Hey, listen to Loial."  If they killed of Haman, it would only be to the Shadow's benefit.  Without Loial to speak, the Ogier may decide to leave and not help Rand against the Shadow, and I think we'll find them to be very much needed when it comes to it.

 

I think if the author planned to kill Haman he would have done it when Trollocs attacked the estate while the Ogiers and Rand were there.  There was plenty of time for the Ogiers to meet an unfortunate end and since RJ didn't kill Haman then, I don't think he has it planned for the last book.  When the Trollocs attacked and the Ogier ran out with the axes I was very much afraid of exactly this kind of twist, and I was glad it didn't happen.

[Asmo]

To be replaced by Loial is such a very lame reason to have Haman killed. It just doesn't cut it IMO.

 

Also, it was said that Shadowspawn can't cross a gateway, not that constructs of the Power can't cross a gateway made from the One Power. Until we get more information, we have to assume that the only things that die when going through a gateway are those made by the Shadow (Trollocs, Fades, Darkhounds, Draghkar etc), and that it doesn't matter who or what made the gateway.

 

Which does raise some interesting questions about individual Shadowspawn.

 

-Darkhounds? Are they permanently killed once crossing?

 

-Grey Men? Are they considered literally Shadowspawn?

 

-Gholam? Are they affected by the limitation or are they shielded against anything to do with the One Power at all?

[Elwinn Taron]

Any married Ogier may speak at a stump.

[MatrixM]

Exactly! It would be no difference to the Ogiers if Loial becomes Elder (which he won't because he simply can't) as he is still young and new to the position. The amount of respect given to him would not increase all that much.

That doesn't mean that Haman won't die, though. He could just die for the sake of it or so Robert Jordan can leave some waygates accessible.

[bjclinton]

While I don't agree that Elder Haman is going to get killed.....just too many other things to focus on in AMOL that are much more important than spending time on an Ogier re-org,  for the sake of conversation I could definitely see the possibility of Loial becoming an Elder. Although it is very contradictory of the actual title  (heck, he's practically a teenager!), the turning of the WoT brings change. He has already single handedly proven that he isn't going to be held by the same old generally accepted bylaws of what's appropriate for an Ogier by leaving the Grove at such a young age, and as someone mentioned earlier, he has accumulated a very vast knowledge in his worldly travels in the last couple of years. While he may not know as much ancient history as the other Ogier Elders, he knows more of the current world than any other Ogier and has become personal friends with other current and future world leaders (Rand, Elayne, Some Aiel, Perrin, Matt, etc.)

 

We know from seeing /hearing about the Ogier in Seanchan that their laid back nature is not a trait of their race, rather a cultural trait. Loial has the potential to herald change for the Ogier in Randland and help matriculate them more into the World they try to ostracize themselves from.

 

[Safia al-Maaz]

wait, is that what the death gates were then?  just regular gates that they should not have passed through?