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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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Posted
  On 4/11/2025 at 12:16 PM, DreadLord31 said:

I feel like they have “too much” to do … and this finale is gonna be another disappointment. 
 

Hope I’m wrong. 
Also … this is about the only crowd who will understand how amused I was at Perkins today … 

IMG_4740.thumb.jpeg.670cd5917a243c09e14aef8eb821b20d.jpeg

 

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First, yum.  Just imagine you’re at the Winespring.

 

Second, we’ve been talking for three seasons now about pacing donor shouldn’t come as a surprise that suddenly there’s a lot to do with little time.  For a show that has a ton of book to adapt into a much condensed form, they’ve spent way, way too much time on things that don’t matter and aren’t actually part of the original story.  I’ll grant that this season has been more on point, but even then, get rid of the chaff like the Alanna/Maksim nonsense, Liandrin’s wedding massacre, etc.  one huge complaint is that this show uses a lot of forced exposition and doesn’t give the story time to breathe, but they keep putting in extraneous fluff.  If they do everything that they are expected to do, the next episode is going to feel very rushed, but that’s also par for the course.

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Posted
  On 4/9/2025 at 6:32 PM, DigificWriter said:

I was trying to do some research on licensing agreements, and based on what I could find, I'm almost 100% sure that Sony Pictures Television's licensing agreement with iWoT/Red Eagle is non-exclusive (since there have been other WoT-related projects announced as being in development that have nothing to do with the live-action show), which means that SPT cannot just bow out of producing the live-action show and let Amazon assume the licensing rights to it.

 

Thus, it would be incumbent upon Amazon to negotiate their own licensing agreement with iWoT/Red Eagle in order to unilaterally move forward with producing the live-action series on their own. They would also likely have to negotiate their own contracts with the cast and crew of the series.

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Some of REE's "projects", depending on their original contracts with the Bandersnatch group, which unfortunately aren't available publicly, may very well be overstepping the bounds of their contract and are opening themselves up for multiple lawsuits. (Re: See there AI Projects)

Posted
  On 4/11/2025 at 12:29 PM, Mirefox said:

First, yum.  Just imagine you’re at the Winespring.

 

Second, we’ve been talking for three seasons now about pacing donor shouldn’t come as a surprise that suddenly there’s a lot to do with little time.  For a show that has a ton of book to adapt into a much condensed form, they’ve spent way, way too much time on things that don’t matter and aren’t actually part of the original story.  I’ll grant that this season has been more on point, but even then, get rid of the chaff like the Alanna/Maksim nonsense, Liandrin’s wedding massacre, etc.  one huge complaint is that this show uses a lot of forced exposition and doesn’t give the story time to breathe, but they keep putting in extraneous fluff.  If they do everything that they are expected to do, the next episode is going to feel very rushed, but that’s also par for the course.

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At the end of episode 7 Rafe said Loial was cut for time, with only 8 episodes he pretty much admitted there were simply too many stories to fit in, so some had to go like Loial.  It should be interesting if there is any Perin in the last episode because he had said something that made it seem like Perin might be done for the season.  

Posted
  On 4/11/2025 at 3:09 PM, Sabio said:

At the end of episode 7 Rafe said Loial was cut for time, with only 8 episodes he pretty much admitted there were simply too many stories to fit in, so some had to go like Loial.  It should be interesting if there is any Perin in the last episode because he had said something that made it seem like Perin might be done for the season.  

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I’m fine with Perrin’s story being done for the season.  We had the climax of the arc and then an uncertain transition /cliffhanger that can be left until next season.  Structurally it makes sense.

 

 

Posted
  On 4/11/2025 at 3:28 PM, Mirefox said:

 

I’m fine with Perrin’s story being done for the season.  We had the climax of the arc and then an uncertain transition /cliffhanger that can be left until next season.  Structurally it makes sense.

 

 

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Perrin is literally not in TFoH.  So he’s due for a break.

Posted
Assuming that they are even given the opportunity to finish the TV series, the major legacy of this adaptation is going to be what might have been. When this was announced, I did an exercise where I broke down exactly what 8 seasons of 8 episodes needed to cover. Not what would be nice; what was interesting subplots of backstory, but what is the absolute mission critical beats of each of the 6 main characters of the series, and what exposition needs to happen to make those stories make sense.

And so what we're left with is the bare bones skeleton of the lengthiest single plotted fantasy ever written, held together with short vignettes of well loved moments from the series, all spackled together in slapdash fashion with not enough time, budget or art to hide holes. Add production issues that could overwhelm even a simple production (Covid, Writer's strike, Barney Leaving, Tam's absence), and creator's intent in the adaptation that is different than the creator's intent of the series, and it's surprising it's as good as it is.

and as I noted - either here or elsewhere - the issue isn't really the number of episodes, or the number of seasons; it's the missing pieces of 15-30 seconds maybe 25 times (just 10 min) that would help the scenes makes sense, add depth and nuance to plots, and let the impact of moments be felt more deeply by the characters. And without implying anything political, allow people to prune the story not with a scalpel - no time for that - but at least not with a chainsaw.

a perfect example from this episode in about 30 seconds of spectacular story telling, the scene with Thom, Elayne and Jeane Caide laid the foundation for the rest of Elayne's story, set up Thom as a bad ass, introduced a key concept for the absolute climax of the series ( the crescendo of Olver's story), and 3 major story beats for our heroes in the middle (Mat and Avi in Camelyn, Rand, the idiot and Graendal, the Tower against Shara). But how many of those 30 second moments are missing? How many of those could have saved the "why isn't this person dead" set up from happening?

I've read the series a dozen times or more - the earlier books more than that. And there is enough of my WoT in the series to keep with it. But without the attchment to the series. I'm not sure I would care what happens to these people.
Posted
  On 4/18/2025 at 2:59 AM, Jaysen Gore said:
Assuming that they are even given the opportunity to finish the TV series, the major legacy of this adaptation is going to be what might have been. When this was announced, I did an exercise where I broke down exactly what 8 seasons of 8 episodes needed to cover. Not what would be nice; what was interesting subplots of backstory, but what is the absolute mission critical beats of each of the 6 main characters of the series, and what exposition needs to happen to make those stories make sense.

And so what we're left with is the bare bones skeleton of the lengthiest single plotted fantasy ever written, held together with short vignettes of well loved moments from the series, all spackled together in slapdash fashion with not enough time, budget or art to hide holes. Add production issues that could overwhelm even a simple production (Covid, Writer's strike, Barney Leaving, Tam's absence), and creator's intent in the adaptation that is different than the creator's intent of the series, and it's surprising it's as good as it is.

and as I noted - either here or elsewhere - the issue isn't really the number of episodes, or the number of seasons; it's the missing pieces of 15-30 seconds maybe 25 times (just 10 min) that would help the scenes makes sense, add depth and nuance to plots, and let the impact of moments be felt more deeply by the characters. And without implying anything political, allow people to prune the story not with a scalpel - no time for that - but at least not with a chainsaw.

a perfect example from this episode in about 30 seconds of spectacular story telling, the scene with Thom, Elayne and Jeane Caide laid the foundation for the rest of Elayne's story, set up Thom as a bad ass, introduced a key concept for the absolute climax of the series ( the crescendo of Olver's story), and 3 major story beats for our heroes in the middle (Mat and Avi in Camelyn, Rand, the idiot and Graendal, the Tower against Shara). But how many of those 30 second moments are missing? How many of those could have saved the "why isn't this person dead" set up from happening?

I've read the series a dozen times or more - the earlier books more than that. And there is enough of my WoT in the series to keep with it. But without the attchment to the series. I'm not sure I would care what happens to these people.
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Not a bad summary although it is more generous than I give the show credit for.

Posted
  On 4/18/2025 at 3:08 AM, Mailman said:

Not a bad summary although it is more generous than I give the show credit for.

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I'm not judging it against Game of Thrones seasons 1-3, I'm judging it against Season 8 of GoT, the Shannara Chronicles, and Rings of Power.  For big budget TV adaptations, WoT is above average. Not by alot, but enough.

Posted
  On 4/18/2025 at 3:22 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

I'm not judging it against Game of Thrones seasons 1-3, I'm judging it against Season 8 of GoT, the Shannara Chronicles, and Rings of Power.  For big budget TV adaptations, WoT is above average. Not by alot, but enough.

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Judging just about anything against GoT S8 is going to give you a positive result.

I mostly judge it against the source material which leads to a very disappointing result.

Posted
  On 4/18/2025 at 4:33 AM, Mailman said:

Judging just about anything against GoT S8 is going to give you a positive result.

I mostly judge it against the source material which leads to a very disappointing result.

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I had to give that up thanks to Lord of the Rings; when even the best fantasy adaptation makes hollywood adjustments to comply with modern audience sensibilities and expectations, I would lose all ability to enjoy any adaptation because I don't agree with the modern viewing public on most of this stuff.

 

Dune is a stunning visual masterpiece, deserving of the oscar nominations it got, and a wonderfully acted and plotted story. But as good as it is, 2 small changes completely undermined, and almost inverted, the books key theme of free will versus predestination, blind obedience versus truth to power, and freedom versus commitment. Because in the book, Paul was a slave to his fate, Stilgar was the voice of peace and the old ways, and Chani stuck by her man as a concubine - all completed subverted in the movies ending.

Posted

Call this the cynic in me, but since there seems to be some uncertainty about the renewal status of this show, is it possible that certain story arcs were crafted in a way that would present to the executives in charge of these decisions that the show needs more season?  Take Moiraine/Lanfear, for example.  We all thought they should have died this season, and we were all wrong.  Could they have been kept around as a way to sell another season to the executives?

Posted

 

  On 4/18/2025 at 8:16 PM, Mirefox said:

Call this the cynic in me, but since there seems to be some uncertainty about the renewal status of this show, is it possible that certain story arcs were crafted in a way that would present to the executives in charge of these decisions that the show needs more season?  Take Moiraine/Lanfear, for example.  We all thought they should have died this season, and we were all wrong.  Could they have been kept around as a way to sell another season to the executives?

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One problem that's causing the sense the show may be canceled is that the viewing expectations and habits of at least the younger executives are no more like ours that that of a lot of the general public. They want the razzle-dazzle magic fights for instance, hence Moirane v. Lanfear, which from a story perspective at this point is completely unnecessary. Some things I liked: they included the Aelfinn and the Eelfin, whom I was sure would have been left out; most of what went down in Tanchico in this episode was on point. How Nynaeve accessed her powers was well-done even though it's in a different part of the story than in the books (probably needed to be this way). The conflict between Rand and Culadheen was well done, and the true display of Rand's powers as well. A couple of things I didn't like quite as well. Elaida's takeover happened offscreen; we were treated to none of the conflict in the Tower that followed, and Elaida having Siuan murdered in the Hall wasn't too cool either. All this said, if they keep presenting, I'll keep watching.

Posted (edited)

My estimation of the first series was that it was less interesting than it could have been.  My hope was that it would get better.

 

Regarding the second, I thought it was indeed better but not hugely well put together.  I was interested in seeing more.

 

Regarding this year's offering, I thought the average quality was much higher, even if lacking in execution.  I want to see more.

 

(It is far from being excellent in my opinion, despite the incredible IMDB scores, but far better than a certain other major Amazon fantasy series.) 

Edited by EmreY
Posted
  On 4/20/2025 at 11:39 AM, Mailman said:

I have a question considering the scenes we have seen with Mats sisters this season.

 

Why did Moiraine not get Egwene to heal her in season 1? 

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Egwene had never touched the source ( in the show) when Moiraine was injured at Winternight. The girls were clearly wilders. 

Posted
  On 4/20/2025 at 12:30 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Egwene had never touched the source ( in the show) when Moiraine was injured at Winternight. The girls were clearly wilders. 

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She touched the source with Moiraine.

Egwene looks at least 6 plus years older than the girls.

Posted

What did she do with it? Make a small spark. Egwene's age has nothing to do with it. She hadn't used the power at all. The twins had seemingly been doing things with it for some time. They would have been more familiar with doing things, had more ability to weird larger amounts and possibly greater confidence due to being imo linked together.

Posted (edited)
  On 4/20/2025 at 1:28 PM, Turin Turambar said:

What did she do with it? Make a small spark. Egwene's age has nothing to do with it. She hadn't used the power at all. The twins had seemingly been doing things with it for some time. They would have been more familiar with doing things, had more ability to weird larger amounts and possibly greater confidence due to being imo linked together.

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Come on.

 

What are you basing that on.

The twins are so young that they could not have been channeling for long I would not be surprised if the cage scene was the first touch.

Why was Alanna teaching them how to touch the source if they already had that level of control.

Egwene was able to heal Nyn about 5 weeks later from incredibly close to death to full health.

Age has impact because the touching falls in a narrow window.

 

Is it truly impossible to admit that it does not actually make any sense.

Edited by Mailman
Posted

I would say the context and Nattie's immediate reaction indicate otherwise. They didn't seem shocked something happened and Nattie didn't either. She was quick to cover for them as a mother would but there was no delay as would be expected to find out your children could do something thought anathema to most.

Allana  only knows one way to teach. And she was not imtending to teach them battle weaves. They.may have picked it up watching her anyway. 

 

I think everyone doubted the believability of that healing scene in S1E8.

 

I'm saying it isn't as unbelievable as you are making it out to be As we just don't know what the twins have been doing for the past two years. 

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Posted

I have critically important information to share. Ok, not really, but in terms of non-book reader opinions, I wanted to share this:

 

My son is 19. Never read the books. Could have absolutely cared less about the show in S1. When pressed (by me), he would say it was okay (to be nice), but even though it was our 'family show' [we watch one show together as a family] for that time, was usually on his phone. Tuned in a little more to S2, but there's no way you could call him invested. He rolled his eyes when I talked about it. But he admitted he liked it more than S1.

 

He moved out, so we didn't watch together as a family this year. But when he came to hang out one time, we watched the first two episodes of S3. Similar to S2, he was tuned in but not super invested. Next time, we watched 3 and 4. After 4, he was asking me non-stop questions about the AoL and the Aiel. Started saying things like, "I'm gonna have to go back and look at that one time..." We watched E5, which he liked.

 

Last night he was over. Now, my son and I are not night owls. We're both usually in bed by 10. We watched E6. His jaw was on the floor. He couldn't stop talking about how terrible it was that Rand killed 'that little girl' but how awesome it was that he 'no looked' Sammael. He looked at the clock, almost 9. "I can't stay up for the last one, dad. But let's watch 7."

 

As Episode 7 plays out, he's a non-stop comment machine. (He loves Faile and the contrast in height with Perrin.) Saw Loial's sacrifice coming and kept saying things like, "no, they're not going to kill him" and agonizing over Bain and Chiad. He cheered - loudly - when Valda got his. That episode wraps past 10. Immediately, he says, "I can't just not finish. We have to just watch." 

 

He loved E8 and was still talking about it on the way upstairs to bed. He can't wait for S4. When I told him they hadn't for sure said there would be one, his exact words, "that would be the dumbest thing ever. We have to find out what happens."

 

The last half of this season was absolutely dynamite. (Side note: I asked him about the 'fake out deaths'. He agreed that it was a little overdone, but had an interesting point. He grew up with Marvel and said something like, 'it's pretty typical now' that people get up after they should die.) 

Posted

They fridged Siuan and said it was to give her character something more important to do, the stupid rat bastards.

 

Scheming her way to revenge on Elaida as a power behind the throne [ahem] I mean loyal adviser to Egwene IS something important to do dammit!

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