Guessing the 8 Forsaken

[Finnssss22]

So we have 5 confirmed 

Ishamael

Lanfear

Moghedien

Sammael

Graendal

  Reveal hidden contents

6 with the casting of Lord Gaebril

???

???

 

I think we all agree the figurine with the musical instrument is Asmo leaving only one more.

I don't think we're getting Demandred, I think they're merging him with Sammy especially after the info in spoiler above.

I also don't think we're getting Semirhage as I think she has already been merged with Lanfear. Lanfear in the show is far more cruel. kills indiscriminately and even enjoys it. This is far more in line with Semirhage.

Lanfear in the books rarely killed except during fits of anger as she pretty much thought it was beneath her almost like killing someone with her own hand would acknowledge they were a threat to her or her equal and no one was her equal.

 

So who does this leave us with?

Mesaana

Aginor

Balthamel

Be'lal

 

If that one figurine is indeed a 4th female, it's obviously Mesaana or I'm wrong about the Lanfear/Semirhage merge.

Or

That figurine is actually a male in fancy clothes, is Rahvin and they aren't merging Sammael and Demandred.

 

Thoughts?

[Finnssss22]

Forgot to mention Lanfear naming Moggy and Graendal by name then referring to the rest as the boys which would lean towards the Lanfear/Semirhage merge and no merge of Demandred and Sammael leaving the last 2 as Demandred and Rahvin.

[DigificWriter]

Somebody elsewhere suggested that they're going with Aran'gar, but my thought there is that if that's the route they're going, it makes more sense in light of the Metaphysical change that they made that they give us Balthamel as a female-to-male Trans character (in spite of the problematic  nature of having the first openly Trans character on the show be evil), which would explain both the feminine appearance of that one statue and Lanfear's use of the catch-all descriptor "the boys".

[Mailman]

I feel Mesaana is almost certain as she is the direct opponent of Egwene.

 

Egwene gets her fights with the leaders of both the black male and female Towers. I don't think Rafe will want to cut this and I don't think it should be either.

[DreadLord31]

Can anybody post a pic of the 8 little figurines we see in S1 and another of the statues in S2 at the Forsaken temple? 
 

[Finnssss22]

https://preview.redd.it/n7v8asmj2j381.jpg?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5347bc2135c8e3446136c03473c85c8e4699185

[A Memory Of Why]

@DreadLord31 here's the lil ones ;)

 

 

Sooo..

 

Moggy, Semirhage?, Chewbecca (Sammael), Ishy, Lanfear, Asmo, Demondred?, Bosom (Graendel)

[Figs and Mice]

I think we need Asmodean : can't imagine any of the others acting , even under duress , as any sort of mentor to Rand. 

Sammael/Rahvin/Demandred are all pretty much interchangeable really. Need one of them to be Gaebril but don't need all three.

Be'lal Balthamel Aginor all get killed off early without doing much so unless the show wants to embrace the complicated reincarnation stuff with the latter pair (unlikely since they never appeared in the first place ) we can forget them.

Mesaana does perform eventually but only very late in the story. Not sure she is needed ? And Semirhage seems to mainly be in the story as a striking demonstration of Ultimate Nastiness rather than a big plot mover 🙂 With Graendal already on board we probably only need one of them ?

 

My guess : The five already confirmed/shown ; Asmo ; Rahvin and one of the other females , depending on what they want to do with the story down the track.

[DreadLord31]

@A Memory Of Why

Thank you. 
 

Alright so… 2 in the center are Ishy and Lanfear. Statue to right of Lanfear has a guitar pointed down (got to be Asmo!); one to the left of Ishy (Chewy) is clearly Sammael; and the one to the far right (bosom) is clearly Graendal. 
 

So the one between Asmo and Graendal is unaccounted for and the two on the far left. We know Moggy is in the show and is “the spider” and Lanfear thinks she’s crazy but Ishy released her. Honestly, I think the Egyptian-esque one  on the far left is Moggy (see how the base is kind of like an egg?) 

 

If that’s the case then of the 2 left one is clearly female and the other male. I think the one next to Sammael is Semirhage. And then the one next to Asmo will be Rahvin. 
 

Demandred makes the most sense to cut. He’s a non character and then comes out of the blue. I really wonder if Jordan had a plan for him that he never got around to writing? 
 

Rafe has made comments about combining characters (Amys and Baer, for example). So if they’re trying to combine some Forsaken - that would screw up this analysis… 
 

[DigificWriter]

There being 4 male Forsaken and 4 female Forsaken included in the show doesn't make sense given that Lanfear only name-checked two other females besides herself, which is why I'm beginning to think that the assertion that one of the unidentified statues being "clearly female" is wrong and that, in order to figure out who the last unidentified Forsaken is, we have to figure out how to square the statues with Lanfear's dialogue about the others... which nobody has really done as of yet.

[Turin Turambar]

Who's confirmed again?

Ishy

Lanfear

Moggy

Grendal

Sammael

 

Who's  left?

Aginor . Doubt it

Be'lal .doubt it

Balthamel? Doubt it.

Asmodean .possible to likely 

Rahvin. Possible to likely 

Semirhage.  Possible 

Messana.  Doubt it

Demandred.  Possible 

 

If there are only 3 to go, then I am guessing Asmodean,  Rahvin,  and Demandred. 

[Wassup]

I hope they have 4 and 4, simply because the whole thing is about balance, right?

[Samt]

One thing to consider is that Sammael may be Gaebril.  Adding scenes and a battle in Illian in order to facilitate the showdown with Sammael has not really been hinted at.  In the book, this encounter has tons of buildup and preparation that is somewhat of a dead-end, so I can see it being cut for time.  Also, if they were following the storyline of the first three books, we would have already been to Illian and Moiraine would have already already learned about Lord Brand. 

That means that Rand's encounters with Rahvin and Sammael may be merged into a single encounter that covers much of the same ground.  Possibly that will occur with Ishamael/Morridin present in order to create the link with Rand.  And Nynaeve and Moghedian should be present as well with their Tel battle.  Frankly, there are a lot of climaxes left to happen and I think we should expect that some of them will be merged.  

If that's true, I think your other 3 are Asmodean, Demandred, and either Semirhage or Mesaana.  That leaves you with a 4/4 sex balance.  I don't think any of those last 3 will be introduced soon since their parts all come a bit later in the books.  

[DigificWriter]

Again, nobody is making any attempt to explain how a 4/4 gender split makes sense given Lanfear's dialogue; they're just defaulting back to the visual appearances of the 8 statues.

 

People also keep talking about Gaebril being the alias of a Forsaken other than Rahvin, but even as a spoiled non-book reader, I just don't see the evidence to support that idea, especially when you take into consideration the reality of the show needing to be both judicious and simplistic when it comes to the condensing of 14 books.

 

IOW, if Rafe and his team didn't intend to use Rahvin, there's no need for them to have included the character of Gaebril at all.

[Samt]

  On 2/26/2025 at 7:29 PM, DigificWriter said:

Again, nobody is making any attempt to explain how a 4/4 gender split makes sense given Lanfear's dialogue; they're just defaulting back to the visual appearances of the 8 statues.

 

People also keep talking about Gaebril being the alias of a Forsaken other than Rahvin, but even as a spoiled non-book reader, I just don't see the evidence to support that idea, especially when you take into consideration the reality of the show needing to be both judicious and simplistic when it comes to the condensing of 14 books.

 

IOW, if Rafe and his team didn't intend to use Rahvin, there's no need for them to have included the character of Gaebril at all.

Expand  

For sure there’s no reason that Gaebril has to be Sammael.  My logic was just that Sammael is in, but he’s not one that has enough of a story to make the top 8 in my opinion.  Combining him with Rahvin, who has more interaction with confirmed characters, would be a reason to build his storylines.  

[Wassup]

Just question on the side about the forsaken.  Do you think they will give some type of explanation for non-book readers as to why the forsaken go their separate ways and do their own things instead of just going gang busters after Rand?

 

Trying to figure out which ones are in the show has a lot of conjecture about what they would be doing to determine who it will be.  But, will the average viewer understand the whys?

[Pandemonium]

  On 2/27/2025 at 1:27 AM, Samt said:

For sure there’s no reason that Gaebril has to be Sammael.  My logic was just that Sammael is in, but he’s not one that has enough of a story to make the top 8 in my opinion.  Combining him with Rahvin, who has more interaction with confirmed characters, would be a reason to build his storylines.  

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i agree with this.  rahvin was a pretty useless forsaken who never had any devleopment.  sammael was also not very well-developed.  fans thought there was going to be a huge showdown after the battle at cairhien and the build-up in 'a crown of swords' that led to the ilian/shadar logoth show-down.  then fans were properly pissed at how quickly rj offed sammael.  combining them does make sense.

 

not really sure who the other 2 forsaken would be.  but they pretty much have to include demandred, and it would be awesome if they combined him with taim.  semirhage would be pretty cool, but i liked what somebody said about a'rangar/halima.  plus this a very lgbtq friendly show so it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to put a trans character in the series.  

 

 

[DreadLord31]

  On 2/26/2025 at 7:29 PM, DigificWriter said:

Again, nobody is making any attempt to explain how a 4/4 gender split makes sense given Lanfear's dialogue; they're just defaulting back to the visual appearances of the 8 statues.

 

People also keep talking about Gaebril being the alias of a Forsaken other than Rahvin, but even as a spoiled non-book reader, I just don't see the evidence to support that idea, especially when you take into consideration the reality of the show needing to be both judicious and simplistic when it comes to the condensing of 14 books.

 

IOW, if Rafe and his team didn't intend to use Rahvin, there's no need for them to have included the character of Gaebril at all.

Expand  

Because the Lanfear and Ishy dialogue didn’t seem as if they were trying to be comprehensive even in scene. So, it doesn’t need to “square”. She says, “Because Moggy is crazy, Graendal is a vain idiot & the boys couldn’t accomplish a plan if…” 

 

She could have easily left out Mesanna or Semirhage because she actually respects them and doesn’t think they are totally incompetent. 
 

So a 4-4 split makes a ton of sense based on overall lore (balance & symmetry), the statues, and the writers tendency to prefer female characters that they’ve demonstrated throughout seasons 1 and 2. 
 

And going back to the statues - I think there’s only one that’s questionable - the one between Asmo and Graendal. 2 farthest to left based on descriptions has got to be Semirhage. 

Edited February 27 by DreadLord31

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 2/27/2025 at 10:17 PM, DreadLord31 said:

Because the Lanfear and Ishy dialogue didn’t seem as if they were trying to be comprehensive even in scene. So, it doesn’t need to “square”. She says, “Because Moggy is crazy, Graendal is a vain idiot & the boys couldn’t accomplish a plan if…” 

 

She could have easily left out Mesanna or Semirhage because she actually respects them and doesn’t think they are totally incompetent. 
 

So a 4-4 split makes a ton of sense based on overall lore (balance & symmetry), the statues, and the writers tendency to prefer female characters that they’ve demonstrated throughout seasons 1 and 2. 
 

And going back to the statues - I think there’s only one that’s questionable - the one between Asmo and Graendal. 2 farthest to left based on descriptions has got to be Semirhage. 

Expand  

 

I mean, I wouldn't talk smack about Semirhage either.

 

I agree she's the most likely for the last female forsaken and that statue does make me think of her, they could have a lot.of fun with thr Queen of pain.

 

Mesaana isn't really present early and barely on-screen by her end, merging her with Moggy could fit well as she isn't doing much when Mesaanas about, wouldn't need to change much.

 

My guess is Demondred is the last, keep him as a wildcats, have some fun and after the black towers formed drop a line about how pleased the great lord is with the army he's gathering so a whole new generation can jump onto that theory.. that's totally obvious to the casual obvserver.

[Mailman]

  On 2/28/2025 at 2:27 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

I mean, I wouldn't talk smack about Semirhage either.

 

I agree she's the most likely for the last female forsaken and that statue does make me think of her, they could have a lot.of fun with thr Queen of pain.

 

Mesaana isn't really present early and barely on-screen by her end, merging her with Moggy could fit well as she isn't doing much when Mesaanas about, wouldn't need to change much.

 

My guess is Demondred is the last, keep him as a wildcats, have some fun and after the black towers formed drop a line about how pleased the great lord is with the army he's gathering so a whole new generation can jump onto that theory.. that's totally obvious to the casual obvserver.

Expand  

I don't know about merging Messana and Moggy.

The spider and the black Amyrlin does not feel like a very cohesive mix.

Semirhage and Mesanna. Gifted doctor and black Amyrlin to mine feels more natural mix.

Edited February 28 by Mailman

[Finnssss22]

  On 2/26/2025 at 1:25 PM, DreadLord31 said:

Demandred makes the most sense to cut. He’s a non character and then comes out of the blue. I really wonder if Jordan had a plan for him that he never got around to writing? 

 

Expand  

 

There were hints in the notes that Jordan hadn't 100% decided where Demandred was with King Roedran still a possibility for a while before going full Red Herring with him. 

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/1/2025 at 2:54 AM, Finnssss22 said:

There were hints in the notes that Jordan hadn't 100% decided where Demandred was with King Roedran still a possibility for a while before going full Red Herring with him. 

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If the show decides that Couladin and Demandred could be combined and that Couladred isn’t just Savanna’s puppet - that could be a “a good change…a good change.” 

 

 

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 2/26/2025 at 1:25 PM, DreadLord31 said:

@A Memory Of Why

Thank you. 
 

Alright so… 2 in the center are Ishy and Lanfear. Statue to right of Lanfear has a guitar pointed down (got to be Asmo!); one to the left of Ishy (Chewy) is clearly Sammael; and the one to the far right (bosom) is clearly Graendal. 
 

So the one between Asmo and Graendal is unaccounted for and the two on the far left. We know Moggy is in the show and is “the spider” and Lanfear thinks she’s crazy but Ishy released her. Honestly, I think the Egyptian-esque one  on the far left is Moggy (see how the base is kind of like an egg?) 

 

If that’s the case then of the 2 left one is clearly female and the other male. I think the one next to Sammael is Semirhage. And then the one next to Asmo will be Rahvin. 
 

Demandred makes the most sense to cut. He’s a non character and then comes out of the blue. I really wonder if Jordan had a plan for him that he never got around to writing? 
 

Rafe has made comments about combining characters (Amys and Baer, for example). So if they’re trying to combine some Forsaken - that would screw up this analysis… 
 

Expand  

Yes, JR most definitely had a plan for Demondred that never came to fruition and it is commonly know as “Taimondred.” Unfortunately he scrapped this plan because too many people figured it out and he thought that meant it was too obvious. While Taimondred may have, in fact, been obvious that is only because it made so much sense and is the exact reason he should have kept it. I had kinda hoped the show would resurrect Taimondred but it looking like that ain’t going to happen. 

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/15/2025 at 9:02 PM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Yes, JR most definitely had a plan for Demondred that never came to fruition and it is commonly know as “Taimondred.” Unfortunately he scrapped this plan because too many people figured it out and he thought that meant it was too obvious. While Taimondred may have, in fact, been obvious that is only because it made so much sense and is the exact reason he should have kept it. I had kinda hoped the show would resurrect Taimondred but it looking like that ain’t going to happen. 

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Yeah, all of the 8 Forsaken that are in the show have been named except for 1 (presumably male Forsaken) - who I am pretty confident is going to be Asmo (maybe combined with another character - like Couladin?) 

If you have a Forsaken be over, say the Shaido, you can make that whole story-arc shorter and more compelling. 

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/15/2025 at 9:15 PM, DreadLord31 said:

Yeah, all of the 8 Forsaken that are in the show have been named except for 1 (presumably male Forsaken) - who I am pretty confident is going to be Asmo (maybe combined with another character - like Couladin?) 

If you have a Forsaken be over, say the Shaido, you can make that whole story-arc shorter and more compelling. 

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I don't much like this idea - having Forsaken behind every group of antagonists simplifies the world entirely too much. Having the Shaido, and the Whitecloaks, and Elaida and for the most part the Seanchan (I mean, really, how important was **** to them?) be different flavours of villains is important to the complexities of the world.

 

Similar to the Morgase discussion, good people can do evil, evil people can do good, and no one can walk so long in the dark that they can't come back to the light. But if it is everyone against our heroes are agents of the Shadow, then it's too clean.