Let's Talk Stories..

[Arie]

 

 

Found a site that had some relevant numbers???? We can take it at face value or not. 🙂

 

Spoiler

https://www.theoryland.com/forums/discussion/7771

 

 

Tarmon Gai'don: Analysis of The Last Battle

 

NOT DARK

-Rand & Allied

Aiel: Speculated 420,000, down from 485,000 (max number under Rand's command). The number is believed to contain several thousand channeler Wise Ones.

Andor: Maximum theoretical strength of less than 200,000. Actual figure less because of civil war, trolloc invasion, Elayne being a twat and Black Ajah spamming some balefire. 125 or so channelers available during KoD.

Tear: Speculated strength of 90,000. Forces sent to Merrilor, but with the local ruler determined to keep a good part of his forces for defense of his territory.

Cairhien: Speculated number of 30,000. Over 10,000 known to be present when Elayne claimed the throne.

Illian: Speculated strength of 80,000.

Perrin's Army: 70,000 (incredibly varied, including the Children of the Light) at the end of ToM. He was still recruiting, though. 6 Wise Ones, 3 Aes Sedai, 2 Asha'man.

Lan's Army: 12.000 (at the end of ToM).

Arad Doman: Ituralde started the Saldaea campaign with 50,000, but took massive losses during ToM. 100 Asha'man formerly assigned to his forces.

Asha'man: Speculated over 700 (but at least 100 are actually Dreadlords with Taim).

Band of the Red Hand: Over 30,000.

Borderlands: Gathered a ginormous joint army of 200,000 soldiers, leaving only token garrison forces behind. Present at least in part in Merrilor. Used to have 13 Aes Sedai.

Legion of the Dragon: Speculated over 70,000.

Bashere's Light Cavalry: 8,000. In Merrilor.

Sea Folk: Numbers unspecified. Sizable contingent of female channelers.

 

-Seanchan

100,000 in North Altara as of KoD.

Over 300,000 being gathered in Arad Doman as of TGS. 200 damane.

Speculated 100,000 in army near Illian.

Unspecified number of lesser armies of 10,000-15,000 in Shaido hunting duties.

Unspecified numbers of damane, but several fucktons of them.

 

-White Tower

50,000 soldiers from the Salidar army.

Unknown, possibly up to 50,000 from the Tar Valon army.

220 Aes Sedai, post Black Ajah purge. Unknown numbers of Accepted, over a thousand novices.

 

-Peasant Army

5,000 guys who just showed up in Merrilor.

 

-Murandy

Speculated 30,000

 

-Shaido

Have had quite enough of all this shit and are going back to the Waste, thankyouverymuch.

 

DARK

Hundreds of thousands of Shadowspawn all over the Blightborder, 150,000 in Tarwin's Gap.

Less than 150 Black Ajah, following the Purge.

100+ Asha'man with Taim.

5 Forsaken.

1 Superfade.

1 Sealed Evil In A Leaky Can

 

HECK IF WE KNOW

Padan Fain, turning trollocs into zombies somewhere in the Blight.

 

[CaddySedai]

SO in all honesty I think we are all here because we love the stories and characters and nations in the world. I think going too far in either direction - post TG - pre EOTW, whilst opening up a bunch of windows - slams shut the era that we all know and kinda centered our online identities around.

 

But also make it a PSW, during another turning. So the names of people may differ - and the outcomes of the pattern of ages not so tightly hewn to the story we know.

 

I think the ideal period would be possibly after the establishment of the current nations. But back aways - possibly just after Avendoraldera was gifted to Cairhien in 509 NE. We could explore a world where they and the Aiel were on friendly terms. maybe they DON'T cut the tree down in our world in Laman's time...how might that change how the prophesy needs to be writ since the circumstances would not have come to pass.

[Cass]

Loving all of this idea generation and seeing peek-ins from 'old' faces I miss!! (*grins [spoiler] grabs handcuffs[/spoiler]*)

For ease of 'management' and maximum freedom/enjoyment, I strongly agree with the non-canon timeline and prefer the idea of a post-books setting over 'before' or 'alternative' - like @Matalina @Taymist @Quibby @Wayfarer have highlighted, 'after' gives freedom for creativity in separation from book-bound expectations, supports a restricted/manageable geography and allows for 'old' characters we know and love. 

With respect to @Arie 's Hall visualisation, and WT/BT thoughts, I REALLY like/prefer the idea of building together - and agree with Taymist that the idea that on the whole the Towers deciding to become one unit (with inevitable dissentions) just makes sense.
 

Perhaps we could take it even further than this, and combine all the cool things into one 'unit' to provide a strong central base that caters for a wider range of usually preferred character types in the one area - Maximum fun appeal and minimum geography combined, essentially - 

A central base for ALL 'gifted' allies.
What if, following (book Age) Tarmon Gaidon, a new 'city of the Light' develops, housing a new type of 'Tower' that is a central base for ALL allies who wanted to stay/had nowhere else to go - including channelers from WT, BT AND other allied groups - Aiel, Seafolk, ex Damane and Sul'dam; Wolfkin; BotRH?

(I like the idea that this develops around the Field of Merrilor area for reference to the Last Battle, with the 'Tower' being located at Dashar Knob - for that and also the random isolation/need to Gateway to it, but *g*) ?


Other thoughts/ideas

 

The Powers 
What happened with Rand, and more specifically, the mysterious ability to light a pipe simply with thought?

 

What was the actual mechanism for the ability itself?

 

Was it actually the True Power, as we know it, linked with the Dark One? Or was it a 'new' type of ('universal'/non-gendered?) Power... And, was it limited to Rand and Rand's line... or not?

... What if it actually was the True Power
- and it turns out that the Dark One 'gifted' it randomly around the world as a last stand before being sealed away? ... What is the current fate/ability of those who 'received' it? And did the Creator counter this in any way?


Dark One/'Madness' Conflicts

The Wheel is still turning, and eventually there will be another TG, right? ... who is going to 'drill the next hole'? Create the next 'breaking'?

What if, this time around the Wheel, it is not a 'Time of Madness' from the Dark One's Taint on Saidin which develops, but something similar that comes from the True Power itself?

I read a theory, somewhere, that Egwene's Light of TV weave might have created another weak spot in the pattern. Perhaps, at the point where we pick up, the Dark One is beginning to sense/manipulate this area as he did the previous bore... Could be interesting if that's in the same general area as the 'central base'...

Other
So many options for plot points and conflicts, as others have highlighted! I'm all for nations rebuilding/conflicts and Shadowspawn still being a problem even though the Blight is gone.
 

[Cass]

 

On 1/20/2024 at 9:50 AM, Arie said:

 

As I would be hard-pressed to tell Elessar to stop writing his character, I would say the same for others. The caveat is they may have to either:

a) remove informational connections to plots that we are not keeping

b) provide some logical reason for them to be where they are

c) IF you want to have a solid impact on the timeline with the character, it should make sense and further the story in some way.

 

Honestly... I'm -extremely- flexible with bringing back former characters from the Legacy Era.

 

On 1/21/2024 at 5:09 AM, Quibby said:

"Yes, yes, Grandpa Pahl, you were there at the big battle and you personally blew everything up with magical black dirt.  Let's get you into bed now."

 

While I like the idea of a few of the old characters remembering the Legacy stuff as actual history and not being believed when they tell their stories because they're "too far-fetched", I think it would be a pain to manage without everybody agreeing on what did or didn't happen.  Maybe references to Legacy stuff should be treated like Captain America in the comics during WWII: wild stories that just happen to coincide with actual events.

 

On 1/21/2024 at 7:03 AM, Arie said:

 

Well, that's a special character. XD (it's hard to explain without referencing some weird RP's that include grass skirts, a crown made of fish bones, and a pet squirrel.......)

 

*G* I can't remember grass skirts, fish bones and pet squirrel (??) I do remember Pahl and his black powders, and 'Grandpa Pahl' is a scary thought!!

I think allowing Legacy characters can be a draw and important to old-time players, so fitting them in however we can is great. As criteria b) above is attained, then I like Quib's idea that the rest is more of an individual historical/random wild 'Cap' type story issue, rather than something that the RP as a whole needs to include/manage.

[Matalina]

I love the idea of a new organization/city/camp that is built by the allies, everyone has a central home, And 25 years is a lot of time to create a nice set up specially with the OP at work.  And even though they are allies and working together even the different factions inside the city of light are going to have descent.

 

A city governed by a council elected by the various groups could work very nicely (or even just elected by the people could have originally been one from the wt, bt, band, etc but changed in the 25 years after set up)

[Arie]

I’m inclined to toss another wrench in the Aes Sedai’s way. 

 

We know the White Tower was dusted a fair bit in the Seanchan attack. What if there is no longer an Oathrod? No more binding, but no more unbinding. 

 

I have looked up a few numbers… and I might have a few thoughts on where and how that could look. 

 

I think We have a lot to work with, and even still some of those decisions don’t need to be made up front but brought forward with specific plots and such like we did with our major and minor storylines. 😄

 

 

 

My big question now… what are we going to call this place? XD 

[Matalina]

I'd say the 4th age but that's the podcast and might get confusing.

 

At the first age, the ages are named.  They call the 4th age "The Age of  Heroes"  I kinda like it.  Focuses on us being the heroes.

 

It is also the age of which the last battle was won but it was what started it the age off with the birth of the dragon reborn.  Doesn't have to start then.  Not sure if this is WoT lore or FA determined point.  We could say when the Dragon was declared, or at the beginning of the Dragon's Peace or which ever significant point in time.

 

Edited January 24 by Matalina

[Arie]

22 hours ago, Cass said:

*G* I can't remember grass skirts, fish bones and pet squirrel (??) I do remember Pahl and his black powders, and 'Grandpa Pahl' is a scary though

That may be from another community.... <,<   *ngl*

 

8 hours ago, Matalina said:

I'd say the 4th age but that's the podcast and might get confusing.

 

At the first age, the ages are named.  They call the 4th age "The Age of  Heroes"  I kinda like it.  Focuses on us being the heroes.

 

It is also the age of which the last battle was won but it was what started it the age off with the birth of the dragon reborn.  Doesn't have to start then.  Not sure if this is WoT lore or FA determined point.  We could say when the Dragon was declared, or at the beginning of the Dragon's Peace or which ever significant point in time.

 

 

Well, I like that as an overarching name. 🙂 I'm thinking the Town/Tower/City/etc that we're making.

 

 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

My vote would be for something existing. Like the city of Merrilor, if that is where it is located.

[Matalina]

I like the idea of the city being something related to light or variations on it.  Luxington sounds a bit too modern for a WoT city.  

And AI is having difficulty providing much useful stuff.

• Luminaria
• Illumina City

 

[Arie]

If leaning on my old Red's plans with Cairhien, lighting like that seems very plausible.

[Cass]

... 

the 'Light Tower' of Merrilor...

*g*

Edited January 27 by Cass

[Arie]

True Tower. Hall of Servants, Hall of Light. (Move away from Tower for both?)

 

[Matalina]

I like just straight up Aeon.

[Arie]

Eora is always up there for me too. Aeon feels more sci-fi to me? But maybe it's vecause of Aeon Flux. XD

Edited January 27 by Arie

[Cass]

I like 'Aeon' (even though it made me think of Aeon Flux too *g*).
*ETA 'Eora' is also cool! (Did you know in one of Aus' indigenous languages it means 'Here' or 'From this place'?)

I think I still like/prefer 'City of Merrilor'/building on something existing for the main city, and perhaps something different for the allied 'base'?

Also, I had a bit of a wrestle with some ideas and Chat GPT - and with much editing, we have some more suggestions for 'other' names and details...

 

1. The Luminara / Luminara Spire / Radiant Citadel:

• Location: Dashar Knob, overlooking the Field of Merrilor.
• Notable Features: Centralized base for representatives from White Tower, Black Tower, Aiel Clans, Seafolk, Wolfkin, willing and capable Seanchan, and members of the Band of the Red Hand.

 

2. Dawn Council / Council of Dawn:

• The governing body overseeing the city.
• Composed of representatives elected by the various allied groups.
• Each faction has a representative on the council, ensuring fair representation.

 

3. The Gateways / Gateway Hub / Portal Junction / Aether Jump:

• A complex network of gateways connecting the city to various parts of the world.
• Ensures quick access for allies and provides strategic advantage.

 

4. Alliance Plaza / Gathering Grounds / Unity Square / Harmony Gardens / Serenity Park:

• A garden space in the city surrounded by symbolic monuments representing each relevant faction.

 

5. Ebon Watch / Ebon Watchers / Shadowbane Guardians:

• A vigilant group responsible for maintaining security and order in the city/?throughout the land as the story develops?
• Composed of skilled individuals from diverse backgrounds, including ?Aes Sedai, Warders, Aiel warriors, and Wolfkin, Seanchan, (?Dragon's Peace link?)

 

6. Grounds of Light / Channeler's Forum / Luminary Court:

• A space within the 'Tower area' for channelers from different backgrounds to knowledge share (practical and/or theory?)

 

7. The Quarters / Unity Districts:

• Residential areas within the city, includes people from all over.

 

8. The Crossroads / Bazaar / Trade Plaza / Market Square:

• A bustling marketplace where merchants and folk from various lands trade goods and stories.
• Exotic items from Seafolk, Aiel, and other regions are available.

 

9. Unity Arch / Unity Fountain / Fountain of Unity:

• A monumental structure at the entrance of the city, symbolizing the unity of diverse allies in the previous struggle for the Light.
• Examples of such symbols might include: representation of Egwene's 'Light of Tar Valon' sacrifice at Tarmon Gaidon/ intertwined hands representing unity/flame for the Light/intertwining symbols of saidar/saidin, etc.

Edited January 27 by Cass
*

[Arie]

I may hate AI art.... 

 

 

But AI generated randomness has potential!!

 

I find these directions fascinating... and am curious what others think. What they like and what they are less likely to lean towards...

[Arie]

I split up the topic because I love how this was going and now we can shift our focus to it's development. But in terms of the world itself there are a few events that we should knock out so more information is available when building background and overarching world lore.

 

25 years is solid, but that's a lot of potential problems to fill in. XD 

 

Things I have collected from everyone's comments that could/would happen are as follows. PLEASE correct me if I represent it wrong, or if I missed something. If you have an idea of something to add, PLEASE speak up. No idea is a bad idea... so much as whether it's useable or not. XD 

 

• WAYFARER
  • - Surviving nations and their status
  • - Seanchan remnant
  • - What is left of the surviving Shadow followers (possibly without a Shaitan)
  • - WT/BT relations
  • - Exploring a new world (new factions/nations rise)
  • - Exploring the transformed nations (finding remnants of the old nations, trying to find families, survivours, new creatures, etc)
  • - BT/WT cold war conflict could take a few forms, but being recognised as a supreme authority by the remaining nations as well as new ones could be a major factor. Gives people points to have conflict/compete on while developing different nations. They'd have their own problems post-TG.
  • - Normally nations have baby booms post-war. I mention this because there are notes that birth rates were dropping over the centuries before TG, with theories that this was due to the Dark One's influence and one of the reasons that so much land was effectively unclaimed and unsettled by the existing nations.
  • - Post-TG diaspora from people fleeing Seanchan lands, fleeing the lands devastated by the Shadow just before TG, any backlash post-TG, there are options here. New settlements/self-proclaimed leaders, they'd either have to be strong enough to be independent or rely on support of others, either nations or organisations like WT or BT, to operate safely.
  • - Separate channeler groups are a possibility. Not only do you have WT/BT, any splinter groups (like the Trad Reds mentioned), hardliner BT'ers that refuse to work with female channelers due to a history of being hunted, Sea Folk, who are reclaiming the seas, Kinswomen that refuse to affiliate with WT, any group founded by someone who deserted and found new acolytes, sul'dam/damane that escaped the main Seanchan forces (maybe set themselves up as rulers, confirming Seanchan fears of women channelers from their history but motivated by their realisation that the only difference between them is the end of the leash and united by a fear of all being leashed). A longer story arc could be looking at the idea of a unification of all channelers, if not in organisation at least in federation and binding themselves to certain rules to maintain a peace.
  • -It also may be worth thoroughly decimating the Aiel.  Not wipe out, but remove them as a major power.  It is unlikely to get many players there.  Issues surrounding them could be taking huge losses during TG and accompanying disruption in society that comes from losing generations that would normally guarantee stability and also hand down their expertise. Loss of people to the Tuatha'an with the revelation of shared origins Loss of people from their culture after extensive interactions with the Westlands after centuries of minimal contact.  Particularly the knowledge that there are green lands unoccupied to settle. War with the Sharans after TG
  • - Ogier: Post-TG, did they use the Book of Translation?  In which case, did they all leave?  Is there a way to follow them?  Was there a purpose to their departure beyond ensuring the Fourth Age could begin?
  • - Children of the Light: Would they have reclaimed a more respectable image after TG for having fought the Shadow?  What is their purpose and identity after TG?
  • - The Ways: Saidin has been cleansed, Mashadar has been obliterated, Padan Fain who carried the last vestige of Mashadar within him is gone. What are the chances that Machin Shin is also gone? In which case could the waygates be reclaimed? What other secrets could be discovered within them? Lost locations, maybe even sites within the ways themselves.
  • - The Blight: Is it healed and new turning into verdant land?  Could it have been warped again by the sheer scale of power used during TG?  Weaknesses in reality, new fauna and flora coming forth (like the Seanchan exotic creatures, etc), new challenges that come with that.  Not just for reclamation of Malkier, but also something as simple as an invasive species of plant moving south and threatening crops/livelihoods/lives.
  • - Surviving darkfriends: What are they doing?  Any attempts to reunify a remnant?  Trying to bring back the Dark One?  Ambitious and trying to grab power as they can despite the lack of Dark One?  People who may have given their oaths out of fear or otherwise compelled now trying to blend back into society?  Are all the Shadowspawn gone with the Dark One cut off?
• ARIE
  • (Multiple AI Generated Plots...)
  • Introducing Electricity via Cairhien Academy (Old Character Plotline/Story)
  • We know the White Tower was dusted a fair bit in the Seanchan attack. What if there is no longer an Oathrod? No more binding, but no more unbinding. 
  • The Two Towers: A Cold War Unveiled
    With the White Tower undergoing extensive repairs, the seat of Aes Sedai power has temporarily shifted to the Black Tower. The uneasy alliance formed during the Last Battle has devolved into a Cold War, where distrust simmers beneath the surface. The Asha'man, once united, now find themselves entangled in a web of intrigue, political maneuvering, and a struggle for supremacy.
  • Borderlands Divided: Malkier's Triumph and Kandor's Fall
    Malkier, once a symbol of resilience and defiance, has risen from the ashes. The Borderlands celebrate the reclamation of Malkier, but their joy is tempered by the Blight's encroachment into Kandor. The division of the Borderlands threatens the very essence of their united front against the Shadow.
• MATALINA
  • Set up would require setting up two 'camps/towns/cities' one in Malkier that is newly built and still under construction I'd imagine.  And one in Kandor that is threatened by the Blight and has an active military/fight against it.  Darkfriends can have an undermining presence in either causing descent with the masses or allowing Trollocs through the gate and what not.  Aes Sedai are there doing what they do best.  Black Tower too, which would pull in some of the Towers at war, so you could have that going on here.  Each tower having a faction on either side or maybe taking sides fueling the cold war between the two and dividing the borderlands further.
• CADDY
  • SO in all honesty I think we are all here because we love the stories and characters and nations in the world. I think going too far in either direction - post TG - pre EOTW, whilst opening up a bunch of windows - slams shut the era that we all know and kinda centered our online identities around.
• CASS
  • A central base for ALL 'gifted' allies.
    What if, following (book Age) Tarmon Gaidon, a new 'city of the Light' develops, housing a new type of 'Tower' that is a central base for ALL allies who wanted to stay/had nowhere else to go - including channelers from WT, BT AND other allied groups - Aiel, Seafolk, ex Damane and Sul'dam; Wolfkin; BotRH?

  • Dark One/'Madness' Conflicts

    The Wheel is still turning, and eventually there will be another TG, right? ... who is going to 'drill the next hole'? Create the next 'breaking'?
    What if, this time around the Wheel, it is not a 'Time of Madness' from the Dark One's Taint on Saidin which develops, but something similar that comes from the True Power itself?
    I read a theory, somewhere, that Egwene's Light of TV weave might have created another weak spot in the pattern. Perhaps, at the point where we pick up, the Dark One is beginning to sense/manipulate this area as he did the previous bore... Could be interesting if that's in the same general area as the 'central base'...

  • Other
    So many options for plot points and conflicts, as others have highlighted! I'm all for nations rebuilding/conflicts and Shadowspawn still being a problem even though the Blight is gone.

  • I think allowing Legacy characters can be a draw and important to old-time players, so fitting them in however we can is great. As criteria b) above is attained, then I like Quib's idea that the rest is more of an individual historical/random wild 'Cap' type story issue, rather than something that the RP as a whole needs to include/manage.

Edited January 28 by Arie

[Arie]

Okay..... summaries out of the way... 

 

LINK TO A VISUAL

 

AFTERMATH (After Dragon Peace (ADR))

• Borderlands Divided: Malkier's Triumph and Kandor's Fall
• Borders around Seanchan-Controlled nations are locked down.
  •  Post-TG diaspora from people fleeing Seanchan lands, fleeing the lands devastated by the Shadow just before TG, any backlash post-TG, there are options here. New settlements/self-proclaimed leaders, they'd either have to be strong enough to be independent or rely on support of others, either nations or organizations like WT or BT, to operate safely. (?)
• The Ways are cleansed and Ogier begins reconstructing the network. They are still very unsafe as many Shadowspawns still use them for travel. Many displaced fighters from the war assist in this effort.
• Remnants of Age's Past are uncovered, along with Aridol, as the Dark One's guise is no longer hiding them from the world. 
• The threat of the Blight has deeply retreated, allowing for the regrowth of numerous flora and fauna that were once myth or completely unknown to the world return. 

~ADR 1

• Founding of Merrilor
• Baby Boom in most nations 

~ADR 4

• Fall of the White Tower (Only Tar Valon remains)

~ADR #

• Sighting of the first Nym seen along the Blight's borderlands.

~ADR 10

• Renewal of The Aiel Waste - Aiel Leave the Westlands
• Children/Seanchan Civil War

~ADR 12+

• LARGE spike in channelers in all nations from the Baby Boom. Merrilor, having prepared some of this, open's the Unity Arches for learning.

 

 

 

 

etc....

Edited January 28 by Arie

[Arie]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-7ANk7wdr2x-G2U1pz4UPlRF0wTwEpyKNfeDw2G-JI/edit#gid=0

 

Also found this in the archives of all the things. XD So not working with an entirely blank slate if we want to.. 😛

 

I think I need help with timeline stuff. I'm putting on a good face, but it's not exactly my best forte...

Edited February 4 by Arie

[Cass]

I'll have a look and think over the next few days - catching up after being away camping all weekend!

[Wayfarer]

In theory, the Ogier should have opened the book and left.  You may need a reason, not necessarily one immediately apparent, for why some may have stayed behind.

[Arie]

Maybe it's me, but I dunno if the book was found in the books? Or is that just the story we are going with?

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Yes, they were going to leave before Tar'mon Gaidon, but Loial's eloquence before the Great Stump won the day for staying and fighting and dying so Rand could live and have a harem. Though the Seanchan Ogier appear to be not part of that, though that is all a bit confused in the lore due to lack of information.

 

*has fingers crossed he has not made this bit up*

[Wayfarer]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:23 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Yes, they were going to leave before Tar'mon Gaidon, but Loial's eloquence before the Great Stump won the day for staying and fighting and dying so Rand could live and have a harem.

 

Never heard it put that way before, but spot on. 🙂