The people want food!

[king of nowhere]

I understand that fantasy cities in movies are meant to look good, to provide striking visuals, not to be particularly realistic.

still, would it really kill the production to show some farmland around? so far we had 3 cities shown: tar valon was placed in the middle of mountains, with no single sign of human presence outside of it. fal dara instead was in the desert. and now falme, also desert.

what is it about a nice green grassland that makes it so unsuitable to settling a major city? are fields of wheat or corn so ugly that the production must eschew them at all cost?

my poor suspension of disbelied is suffering.

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I understand that fantasy cities in movies are meant to look good, to provide striking visuals, not to be particularly realistic.

still, would it really kill the production to show some farmland around? so far we had 3 cities shown: tar valon was placed in the middle of mountains, with no single sign of human presence outside of it. fal dara instead was in the desert. and now falme, also desert.

what is it about a nice green grassland that makes it so unsuitable to settling a major city? are fields of wheat or corn so ugly that the production must eschew them at all cost?

my poor suspension of disbelied is suffering.

Alas it is an issue with many fantasy depictions, go to the return of the king and try to find the farmland around the city. 

It is actually something i have to keep reminding myself everytime I create a habitation in my DnD campaigns, manly because I have players who think like you and who ask, the first time they reach a settlement where is the food and water coming from 🙂 

[Mirefox]

At least in Rings of Power they had a tiny little farming terrace inside Moria to feed the entire dwarf civilization…….

[Guire]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:40 AM, Mirefox said:

At least in Rings of Power they had a tiny little farming terrace inside Moria to feed the entire dwarf civilization…….

RoP really upended the trope though.  They gave us a farming village with grain, livestock, orchards then had the farmers run off to barren fortress leaving all the food and livestock behind.  Because hand to mouth sustenance farmers wouldnt think to pack up supplies.  Guess they werent expecting Southlands Walmart to be closed for orc invasion. 

[Gypsum]

It's just like horses in every movie, TV show, and book (including WOT) who act like furry cars that neigh a lot but don't act like, well, horses.

 

I had this thought the other day when my young mare got concerned by some guys on a 12ft high ladder painting a fence on the side of the road. Horse crossed the road, then stopped and stared at the fence. The 'freeze' is pretty SOP when a horse is worried by something. Oncoming traffic appeared while she was thinking about life choices, stopped for a second, then the first car in the line started rolling towards us, as if she could nudge us off the road. Horse started to jog forwards but would not cross the road, back towards the scary thing. Obviously! Idiot driver continued trying to push me out of their way, and I somehow wrestled the horse to the side, but it was a closer call than I would have liked. I was raging.

 

The point of this anecdote? I thought about it as I was reading A Crown of Swords and later watching something on tele. If the driver's only exposure to horses are books and film, it probably did not occur to them that they are spooky flight animals who get scared by dumb stuff, like a guy on a giant ladder. They are not like cars or bikes that go where you tell them. The person probably didn't have a clue why I was in the middle of the road.

 

In 14 books, do Robert Jordan's horses ever freeze, then spin and tank off in the opposite direction when their riders really want to get them through a Gateway? No, no they do not.  Would horses actually walk through a slash of silver light that opened a portal to another place in a relatively undramatic, straightforward manner. LOL.

 

Do better, writers and film directors.

 

/soapbox

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, Gypsum said:

 

In 14 books, do Robert Jordan's horses ever freeze, then spin and tank off in the opposite direction

There is one scene where seanchan are attacked by trollocs and the horses go wild. Not much, at least a nod.

Meanwhile, in the tv show, mashadar turns a horse to dust while the other horse nearby apparently doesn't give a f***

[Gypsum]

Most horses in the books and show seemed surprisingly tolerant of Trollocs.

 

In the books, they all went into the Ways without asking too many questions. I reread Eye of the World not that long ago, and thought, nope.

 

My point is that Wheel of Time is one of hundreds of shows/books which uses them like fuzzy cars.

 

There's a blog where a guy who's a warfare historian goes into depth on the accuracy (or mainly lack thereof) of the seige-style warfare depicted on various shows like LOTR, Game of Thrones, etc. It's very good. He has a couple entries on the use of elephants in war. Hannibal and a few other generals tried it. The primary battlefield advantage of elephants isn't that they run over everyone and send people flying, and people shoot arrows off their backs, like you see in Return of the King. It's that they cause complete chaos amongst your opponent's cavalry. Unless all those horses have been desensitized to elephants (unlikely, depending on who you're fighting), they will freak out when they see them and become pretty uncontrollable.

 

By that logic, the Seanchan should have been an even more formidable force because they could fly their Drakhar over Randland cavalries, and carnage would have ensued with horses bolting everywhere.

[Scarloc99]

13 hours ago, Gypsum said:

It's just like horses in every movie, TV show, and book (including WOT) who act like furry cars that neigh a lot but don't act like, well, horses.

 

I had this thought the other day when my young mare got concerned by some guys on a 12ft high ladder painting a fence on the side of the road. Horse crossed the road, then stopped and stared at the fence. The 'freeze' is pretty SOP when a horse is worried by something. Oncoming traffic appeared while she was thinking about life choices, stopped for a second, then the first car in the line started rolling towards us, as if she could nudge us off the road. Horse started to jog forwards but would not cross the road, back towards the scary thing. Obviously! Idiot driver continued trying to push me out of their way, and I somehow wrestled the horse to the side, but it was a closer call than I would have liked. I was raging.

 

The point of this anecdote? I thought about it as I was reading A Crown of Swords and later watching something on tele. If the driver's only exposure to horses are books and film, it probably did not occur to them that they are spooky flight animals who get scared by dumb stuff, like a guy on a giant ladder. They are not like cars or bikes that go where you tell them. The person probably didn't have a clue why I was in the middle of the road.

 

In 14 books, do Robert Jordan's horses ever freeze, then spin and tank off in the opposite direction when their riders really want to get them through a Gateway? No, no they do not.  Would horses actually walk through a slash of silver light that opened a portal to another place in a relatively undramatic, straightforward manner. LOL.

 

Do better, writers and film directors.

 

/soapbox

I made the point in another thread, but I think if the humans of WOT had left it just up to the horses then the battle would have gone so much better, Dreadlords throw down fireballs, and create earthqaukes, Mydryall and Trollocs fight with soldiers on horseback, and the horses remain unhurt, able to be ridden into charge after charge after charge over and over again, or escaping to appear and save some fallen soldier at the last moment. if anything the pesky humans on there backs stop them by making them run away, or dying on top of them. 

[Gypsum]

7 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I made the point in another thread, but I think if the humans of WOT had left it just up to the horses then the battle would have gone so much better, Dreadlords throw down fireballs, and create earthqaukes, Mydryall and Trollocs fight with soldiers on horseback, and the horses remain unhurt, able to be ridden into charge after charge after charge over and over again, or escaping to appear and save some fallen soldier at the last moment. if anything the pesky humans on there backs stop them by making them run away, or dying on top of them. 

 

You've definitely met some different horses. 🙂 My gelding had a serious meltdown today at someone wrapping up a tree in a plastic tarp in their front yard. You'd think he'd seen a Myddraal. Oy.

[Ralph]

2 minutes ago, Gypsum said:

 

You've definitely met some different horses. 🙂 My gelding had a serious meltdown today at someone wrapping up a tree in a plastic tarp in their front yard. You'd think he'd seen a Myddraal. Oy.

 

maybe horses can see things we can't. there are Fades in every shadow

[Gypsum]

1 minute ago, Ralph said:

 

maybe horses can see things we can't. there are Fades in every shadow

Finn definitely can.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Gypsum said:

 

You've definitely met some different horses. 🙂 My gelding had a serious meltdown today at someone wrapping up a tree in a plastic tarp in their front yard. You'd think he'd seen a Myddraal. Oy.

I specifically meant WOT horses 🙂 Obviously in what 6000 years or so they evolve to no longer be scared of a piece of plastic 🙂 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Gypsum]

50 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I specifically meant WOT horses 🙂 Obviously in what 6000 years or so they evolve to no longer be scared of a piece of plastic 🙂 

 One can live in hope. They haven't achieved that in the last 5000 years of domestication.

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, Gypsum said:

 One can live in hope. They haven't achieved that in the last 5000 years of domestication.

Maybe it takes a breaking and living with magic users lol, maybe a horse stumbled through the Finn doorway and managed to wish that there kind never be scared again lol. 
 

Maybe Aginor, his first experiments carried out to try and solve that age old problem, he himself the architect of the shadows final defeat :). 
 

As for Seanchan horses, I find that more amusing somehow. If any horses are used to existing around monsters it should be them lol. 
 

 

[herovtrets]

Filmmakers intentionally create visual contrast to make their cities stand out. A lush green landscape might distract from the city’s unique architecture or other fantastical elements. By placing cities in deserts or mountains, they emphasize the city’s distinctiveness. Deserts and mountains often carry symbolic weight. Deserts can represent isolation, mystery, or harsh conditions. Mountains can symbolize strength, inaccessibility, or spiritual significance. Filmmakers use these symbols to enhance the storytelling. Purchase Autodesk AEC Collection 2023 at a reduced price for your next project. Filmmakers may choose desert or mountain settings because they simplify the plot. A city surrounded by vast, uninhabited land is easier to defend (or isolate) in the story. It also avoids complex interactions with neighboring villages or farmland. Creating realistic green grasslands on a film set can be expensive and time-consuming. Desert or rocky terrain requires less effort and resources. Additionally, maintaining a consistent look throughout filming is crucial, so filmmakers stick to their chosen landscape. Certain genres (like post-apocalyptic or dystopian) lean toward barren landscapes. Audiences have come to expect these settings, and filmmakers cater to those expectations.

Edited April 4 by herovtrets

[Kaleb]

18 hours ago, herovtrets said:

Filmmakers intentionally create visual contrast to make their cities stand out. A lush green landscape might distract from the city’s unique architecture or other fantastical elements. By placing cities in deserts or mountains, they emphasize the city’s distinctiveness. Deserts and mountains often carry symbolic weight. Deserts can represent isolation, mystery, or harsh conditions. Mountains can symbolize strength, inaccessibility, or spiritual significance. Filmmakers use these symbols to enhance the storytelling. Filmmakers may choose desert or mountain settings because they simplify the plot. A city surrounded by vast, uninhabited land is easier to defend (or isolate) in the story. It also avoids complex interactions with neighboring villages or farmland. Creating realistic green grasslands on a film set can be expensive and time-consuming. Desert or rocky terrain requires less effort and resources. Additionally, maintaining a consistent look throughout filming is crucial, so filmmakers stick to their chosen landscape. Certain genres (like post-apocalyptic or dystopian) lean toward barren landscapes. Audiences have come to expect these settings, and filmmakers cater to those expectations.

This is all true. It's a different type of fantasy from a different era, but this comment made me think of The Emerald City in The Wizard Of Oz, which was depicted as surrounded by farmland.