WoT Season 2 Episode 8: What Was Meant to Be

[Godoggo]

18 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I also dont see anywhere a "fear" of gendered chanelling, it has been really clear to my non book reading friends so far that there are 2 halfs to the power, 

You have preceptive friends.  None of the non-book readers that I know knew that there were two halves of the power.  They saw the weaves and there are suggestions in the show that women can see men weave.  

[Shawlee]

It's not very clear, i have to agree with @Godoggo. As much as I would like to support the show this is not made very clear. Also the fact that the sexes can not see each other's weaves. Though i think the show did a good job at showing the different elements (season 2) with colors which i think is very clever. And the fact that to the audience's eyes we will see both weaves and we can make the connection that they are infact channeling and drawing powers from the same elememts (earth, fire, air, water, and spirit). I think Jordan made it clear about the fact that the channelers can see and distinguish between the elements being used. So to translate it to visual media their use of color for each elements would work very well. But they need to make it clear to the audience that saidin and saidar even though the same but they are also different just because of your gender. Just like human beings, male or female we are still homo sapiens. It's funny in the age of gender politics Jordan's idea may sound very gender specific but that the story He was telling. If you don't like it then don't make it or better write your own story. Just don't eleminate a crucial idea of the story. Sorry for the rant. But thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

[Samt]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:09 AM, Scarloc99 said:

An aes sedai would not know specifically has this person personally sworn to the dark lord, or, is this person doing something for the Darklord thinking they are doing something evil for someone else, or because they are being paid to do it. 

But an Aes Sedai would know that all of those things are a possibility (and even that none of those things are entirely unlikely).  Thus, if Moraine able to attack with the one power, it is not her knowledge, but rather her uncertainty that allows her to do this.  
 

Which is my point.  This sets the precedent that the one power can be used as a weapon so long as the Aes Sedai isn’t sure that the target isn’t a darkfriend.  Which makes the oath very weak and encourages willful ignorance.  
 

Both the Moiraine ship attack and the Egwene A’dam usage seem to imply that not knowing is a good way to get around oaths and prohibitions. That sets a very odd precedent and seems contrary to the knowledge based values system that is embraced in the books.  It also seems to imply that the heroes are more powerful than those who came before simply because they are less interested in knowing or planning, which is a weird heroic quality.

[Scarloc99]

21 hours ago, Godoggo said:

You have preceptive friends.  None of the non-book readers that I know knew that there were two halves of the power.  They saw the weaves and there are suggestions in the show that women can see men weave.  

The biggest thing that showed them that was how Rand could see the shield when none of the aes sedai around Moraine could, maybe it could be highlighted a bit more clearly a scene showing a female channeller reacting to another women's weave, and then later on a similar weave from a man not getting any reaction even as it is directly in front of her. Or they could have shown it with Lanfer not knowing when Rand was channelling.

[notpropaganda73]

2 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

The biggest thing that showed them that was how Rand could see the shield when none of the aes sedai around Moraine could, maybe it could be highlighted a bit more clearly a scene showing a female channeller reacting to another women's weave, and then later on a similar weave from a man not getting any reaction even as it is directly in front of her. Or they could have shown it with Lanfer not knowing when Rand was channelling.

 

Yes, and Logain knew she was shielded as well didn't he? Although my partner thought Rand could see the shield because he was the Dragon, not because he was a male channeler. She didn't register Logain could see the shield at all, but I think that was because she wasn't really interested in Lan/Moiraine in S2 so sort of switched off a lot when their storylines were on screen.

 

I think as book lovers what has grated with us is the obfuscation about saidin/saidar, where naturally an Aes Sedai would likely comment about it or Moiraine saying she couldn't teach Rand in S1 for example. This method the show is taking would work if nobody knew anything about channeling or the One Power, or we were solely focussed on the EF5 as they are learning. But we are around experienced channelers and the Forsaken and I think there has been one mention of saidin in the show so far? In the S1 finale cold open I believe? I may be wrong there. 

 

They have a lot of world building to do and I think to be honest they feel they can get away without establishing the saidin/saidar binary until later in the seasons. Or they just didn't think it was an important element of the lore until later on. We'll see if it works from S3 where as we expect Rand to get more training, and the Supergirls to grow in their power, the differences will naturally have to happen on screen

[Max Delpo]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:01 PM, BookMattBetterThanShow said:

Watching the show I have felt like they really want Egwene to be the Dragon Reborn, guessing Harriet would not allow it. So instead they are giving Egwene an arch that makes her look like the Dragon Reborn version 1a.

 

Instead an alternative DR, I do think more like this :

 

On 10/24/2023 at 4:39 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

I legitimately don't think they're looking to treat Egwene as the Dragon Reborn. I think what they are doing is setting up Egwene as the main protagonist who watches as her best friend and former lover becomes a 3,000 year old legend who is going to to break the world to save it, then watch him struggle as he becomes a ruthless dictator and potentially insane.  As she learns to trust this violent monster to do the honourable thing.

 

We are getting very little of what's happening in Rand's head (only what he's impacting in the world, and how others  treat him),  and so for most of the second half, I think they're going to play Rand as a villain (think Dumai's Wells from the Aes Sedai perspective, or the Nobility of Cairhien, or any other decision as he becomes "emperor"). Elayne had a speech about him becoming a king and that he needs to- she will see it, Egwene won't, and that will be the character conflict. 

 

Then they will have him interact with Tam for Veins of Gold, and show that there is a very big difference between a man being hard (pardon the pun), and a man being strong. 

 

That has been my expectation since about 1/2 way through S1, and nothing I've seen to date makes me want to change my mind.

 

So Rand=Anakin Skywalker. Rafe is confirmed Red Ajah at this point:

 

* Making Liandrin one of the favorite villain character among the watchers

* Casting Shohreh Aghdashloo as Elaida

* Shielding the DR as much as you can

 

:-))

[wonderfulbathroom]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:38 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I actually loved how Rand just ganked Turak. 

Aw, it was pretty cool but I kinda miss the actual sword fight from the books. It was pretty epic

[wonderfulbathroom]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:14 PM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

To be fair the only reason book Rand did not crush Turak with the power is that he was (wrongly) worried that the Damane would sense it if he did.

 

I think he was going for deliberately (and visibly) slowly wearing Egwene down so that Rand would have time to despair and turn to save her.

Yeah, you're right. But the fight was just cooler in the book. The blademaster motif was just kinda satisfying but not a deal-breaker the way the episode played out 

[wotfan4472]

17 hours ago, wonderfulbathroom said:

Yeah, you're right. But the fight was just cooler in the book. The blademaster motif was just kinda satisfying but not a deal-breaker the way the episode played out 

The thing is, in a world with Vader throwing down, Rand doing a fight with Turak would be not well recieved. I personally think Rand's first full on sword fight and One Power mixed should be against Sammael. Whom should be in Tear and Illian. It would so be him to pit two rival nations he ruled against each other to prove which soldiers would be better.

[nsmallw]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:12 AM, SinisterDeath said:

TV Show Oath doesn't have a clause for dark friends.

This has always seemed odd to me. I wish someone in the production would speak to why this is the case. 

[Samt]

9 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

This has always seemed odd to me. I wish someone in the production would speak to why this is the case. 

I think book oaths don’t either. It got added in in some wiki and now gets brought up but it’s apocryphal.  

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

It is not mentioned in the actual oaths iirc in NS, but is mentioned as early as tGH by Sheriam to Nynaeve but only talking about the oaths, not quoting them directly. 

 

So I guess it means Shadowspawn covers Darkfriends? Obviously in story, the Aes Sedai have no problems using the Power against Taim or the Sharans. But it is weird why it remained such badly worded oath... RJ was not against changing canon.