Characters in the books that you wish had scenes together but didn't

[nsmallw]

I don't know if this question has been asked before so if it has, please give me a link to the discussion. 

 

But if not. what are some character meetings you wish had been able to occur?

[WheelofJuke]

Thom and Asmodean.

 

Pretty sure Thom would question some of Asmodean's musical knowledge...

 

Lots of possibilities for some interesting interactions, if say, Thom went with Rand to the waste.

 

Mat vs. Taim, cagestyle, could've been fun.....

 

Cadsuane, Lini, Nynaeve, and Sorilea playing a Contract Bridge grudge match.

[DojoToad]

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

Thom and Asmodean.

 

Pretty sure Thom would question some of Asmodean's musical knowledge...

 

Lots of possibilities for some interesting interactions, if say, Thom went with Rand to the waste.

Love this one.

 

 

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

 

Mat vs. Taim, cagestyle, could've been fun.....

Is Taim gentled?

 

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

 

Cadsuane, Lini, Nynaeve, and Sorilea playing a Contract Bridge grudge match.

That might have been enough attitude to destroy Shadar Logoth without Rand doing his thing...

[WheelofJuke]

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

 

Is Taim gentled?

 

No, but Mat's got his medallion. I could see them fighting to a stalemate, then grabbing some beers afterwards...

[Scarloc99]

20 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

No, but Mat's got his medallion. I could see them fighting to a stalemate, then grabbing some beers afterwards...

Trying to remember but does Mats Medallion protect him from Saidin? I thought it was only Saidar 

[WheelofJuke]

2 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Trying to remember but does Mats Medallion protect him from Saidin? I thought it was only Saidar 

My recollection is that it protects from both, hence the ancient Aes Sedai symbol with both female and male halves represented.

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

My recollection is that it protects from both, hence the ancient Aes Sedai symbol with both female and male halves represented.

Then I'd say Taim doesn't have a chance.  He doesn't care about using weapons, only using the power - he fights against Rand's edict to train with mundane weapons.  Mat would carve him up quick.

[SinisterDeath]

5 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Trying to remember but does Mats Medallion protect him from Saidin? I thought it was only Saidar 

During Last battle,

 

Spoiler

I believe Lan gets from Galad, so he can fight against Demandred. 

 

[DojoToad]

5 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

During Last battle,

 

  Hide contents

I believe Lan gets from Galad, so he can fight against Demandred. 

 

No, believe that was the Seanchan assassin rings - not Mat's medallion.

 

But I may be forgetting something very important here.

Edited December 4, 2022 by DojoToad

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

To give pedantic responses

- during the battle of Caemlyn Mat dies due to Rhavin's lightning and Rand thinks that the medallion failed against a male weave - but is in error.  In fact it only protects where the weave touches the wearer, the lightning blast area is a real effect once the woven lightning touches down and he could be effected by it just as he could be affected by thrown objects and could still pass a gateway.

 

- during the last battle only Gawyn uses the assassin rings, Galad and Lan each use a lesser copy of the medallion made by Elaine (my theory - both the lesser copy and the inability to match the non-channeling dream ring are due to these needing male and female co-operation).

[DojoToad]

8 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

To give pedantic responses

- during the battle of Caemlyn Mat dies due to Rhavin's lightning and Rand thinks that the medallion failed against a male weave - but is in error.  In fact it only protects where the weave touches the wearer, the lightning blast area is a real effect once the woven lightning touches down and he could be effected by it just as he could be affected by thrown objects and could still pass a gateway.

 

- during the last battle only Gawyn uses the assassin rings, Galad and Lan each use a lesser copy of the medallion made by Elaine (my theory - both the lesser copy and the inability to match the non-channeling dream ring are due to these needing male and female co-operation).

Ah yes, thanks for the clarification. Definitely time to read the books again. 

[Scarloc99]

Just been re reading online and apparently there is a moment where Halima Channels at Mat and it fails. That is where we know the fox head protects against both. But seems that is the only time we see it. And yes it protects against the weave not against the effects of the weave so you could still channel a massive boulder to drop on his head and kill him :). 

[Aan-Alone]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:03 PM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Galad and Lan each use a lesser copy of the medallion made by Elaine

Pretty sure they use Matrim's medallion. But I could be mixing that up with the time Mat gives it to Elayne to study.

[dwn]

Lan and Moiraine post ToG--it happened, but offscreen.

 

Rand and Galad--again it happened, but we don't see it from either POV.

 

Cadsuane and Egwene.

 

Morgase and Thom. Throw in Elayne, Mat and Basil Gill for a real party.

[Gary Again]

I was really hoping Setalle Anan would have met up with Nynaeve to see if she could be healed. I think she would have been the perfect Amerlyn Seat at the end of the book because she had a good relationship with Tuon and may actually create a positive outcome with her and it would have been a cool story for her to have a reverse Siuan arc. She also seemed like she learned a lot of the things the Aes Sedai forgot by cutting themselves off from the world I think she would have helped them reconnect.

 

Would have been cool to see Mat and Couladin lol

 

I wish Egwene would have been able to see her parents again it was kind of sad how much they wanted news of her during Nynaeve's testing and they were never able to really see her again.

 

I also agree about Thom Asmodean, it would have been great if Thom left him in the dust as a musician. Guy sells his soul to the dark one to have eternity to improve as a musician, murders everyone that was better than him, comes to a time where he considers everyone savages, gets schooled by a gleeman.

 

Tuon and Hawking would have been good to see.

 

Rand and Tam at the end, it never really sat well with me that they left his father in the dark.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31 by Gary Again

[dwn]

I definitely agree regarding Nynaeve and Setalle Anan. That felt like a plotline (among several) that just fizzled out.

[Gary Again]

Yeah I feel like Setalle got lost between writers I feel like RJ was building to something with her but Sanderson had so many things she got lost in the shuffle. It's a shame because the more I reread the series the more I really like Setalle as a character and I really enjoy that whole arc with Tuon and how much Tuon respected her. She really seemed to be the closest to changing Tuon's mind on things and I think Tuon even mentions how they changed each other's views and it was mainly through just treating people with respect which is something the Aes Sedai could really learn.

 

 

[Samt]

Wouldn't it be better for Setalle to meet Damer Flinn so she can be restored to full power?

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Mat and Cadsuane…did they ever interact?

[Aan-Alone]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:36 PM, Gary Again said:

Would have been cool to see Mat and Couladin

They did 'interact', but it was off-screen.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

I always thought it would be interesting to see Morgase (or maybe Elayne, but her mother would have been better, imho) coming to the Two Rivers. Not sure when in the story would have been best, and the whole Lord of the Two Rivers would have confused things. But it would have been fun I think to see the village council and the women's circle offer hospitality to the Queen while explaining actually they were not part of her Kingdom.

[Aan-Alone]

10 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I always thought it would be interesting to see Morgase (or maybe Elayne, but her mother would have been better, imho) coming to the Two Rivers. Not sure when in the story would have been best, and the whole Lord of the Two Rivers would have confused things. But it would have been fun I think to see the village council and the women's circle offer hospitality to the Queen while explaining actually they were not part of her Kingdom.

I whole-heartedly agree that this would have been hilarious.

[Vartija]

I really wanted to see Rand with Galad so that they could go through some of their shared family history. Likewise I would have wanted to see a proper showdown between Gawyn and Rand.

[Bugglesley]

  

On 2/5/2024 at 5:00 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I always thought it would be interesting to see Morgase (or maybe Elayne, but her mother would have been better, imho) coming to the Two Rivers. Not sure when in the story would have been best, and the whole Lord of the Two Rivers would have confused things. But it would have been fun I think to see the village council and the women's circle offer hospitality to the Queen while explaining actually they were not part of her Kingdom.

Gonna be honest I didn't really read this as unique to the Two Rivers. I always felt this was one of RJ's better history reads; in most places for most of history, the vast majority of people ostensibly within the boundaries of a particular "Kingdom" wouldn't have been able to name their kind, much less recognize them on sight. They'd know the local authorities, whether it's a Big Man or a Lord or a Village Council or what have you, but anything beyond that was both meaningless and unimportant.

 

Randland seems kind of poised in a late-middle-ages-with-magic vibe, these are definitely not nation-states, speaking generally. They have relatively undeveloped state capacity and militaries still reliant on small numbers of men-at-arms supported by vast peasant levies. They do not have accurate maps of their own territory, efficient modern taxation systems (a royal collector comes around once in a while), censuses, systems to create a draft, etc etc. In that kind of situation, nationalism cannot really function.

 

If anything the weirdos are guys like Ituralde who are expressing a kind of direct early-modern national fervor, where he's not just loyal to the King (and by extension seeking to protect his own material interests delivered by him) as a Middle Ages noble would absolutely be--he makes more intuitive sense to us as moderns because he wants the Seanchan out of His Land, but he is the exception in the WoT. The Two Rivers approach of "oh, that's the blob we're in on the map? OK if you say so" is almost certainly the default. It's just that the Two Rivers is the only time we see the PoV of any characters who aren't noble or from an urban center.

 

Our only counterindication is when Elayne is all "you are my subjects" to Our Good Boys, and they are kind of baffled by it and she is baffled they are baffled. However, Elayne is still young, naive, and supremely sheltered; her shock that Rand doesn't recognize her on sight should not, imo, be taken as a sign that the Two Rivers is uniquely staunchly independent but that this is just how peasants are and this is the first time Elayne has talked to one of the creatures.

 

Tldr I don't think Morgase would be surprised. It wouldn't be that fun.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

3 minutes ago, Bugglesley said:

  

Gonna be honest I didn't really read this as unique to the Two Rivers. I always felt this was one of RJ's better history reads; in most places for most of history, the vast majority of people ostensibly within the boundaries of a particular "Kingdom" wouldn't have been able to name their kind, much less recognize them on sight. They'd know the local authorities, whether it's a Big Man or a Lord or a Village Council or what have you, but anything beyond that was both meaningless and unimportant.

 

Randland seems kind of poised in a late-middle-ages-with-magic vibe, these are definitely not nation-states, speaking generally. They have relatively undeveloped state capacity and militaries still reliant on small numbers of men-at-arms supported by vast peasant levies. They do not have accurate maps of their own territory, efficient modern taxation systems (a royal collector comes around once in a while), censuses, systems to create a draft, etc etc. In that kind of situation, nationalism cannot really function.

 

If anything the weirdos are guys like Ituralde who are expressing a kind of direct early-modern national fervor, where he's not just loyal to the King (and by extension seeking to protect his own material interests delivered by him) as a Middle Ages noble would absolutely be--he makes more intuitive sense to us as moderns because he wants the Seanchan out of His Land, but he is the exception in the WoT. The Two Rivers approach of "oh, that's the blob we're in on the map? OK if you say so" is almost certainly the default. It's just that the Two Rivers is the only time we see the PoV of any characters who aren't noble or from an urban center.

 

Our only counterindication is when Elayne is all "you are my subjects" to Our Good Boys, and they are kind of baffled by it and she is baffled they are baffled. However, Elayne is still young, naive, and supremely sheltered; her shock that Rand doesn't recognize her on sight should not, imo, be taken as a sign that the Two Rivers is uniquely staunchly independent but that this is just how peasants are and this is the first time Elayne has talked to one of the creatures.

 

Tldr I don't think Morgase would be surprised. It wouldn't be that fun.

No, I don't think that Morgase would have been shocked or surprised, but I also think she would have still considered the Two Rivers part of her Kingdom. And while it is true we don't see much of the rural populace, we don't see anything that shows they are not aware of which nation they are in. We do see unclaimed lands, and the peasants are very much aware that no crown claims them or protects them. We see Bayle Domon and Julian Sandar that have their nationalistic prejudices, without having any direct interest in the conflict.

 

I disagree that Iterulda is the exception. We see fierce nationalism in Mayene and Ghealdan, for example, and Murandy and Altara are specifically noted for their lack national spirit; which can only mean it is the norm everywhere else.

 

I would actually say the peasantry is one the worst things in Jordan's world building. For one they are all ultra-traditional as far as I can remember. Working men, women in aprons covered in flour herding children about the place. Serving maids being sexually assaulted as part of their job, and maids and stable men being presented nearly uniformly as almost a sub-species of human in terms of their intellect, ambition and world views. We don't see a lot of the Seanchan settlers, but there is nothing that we do see that is not exactly the same as everywhere else.

 

But anyway that is all as may be, for me I would have liked as I cannot imagine that Morgase would give up her claim to the area, while I'm sure she would not wholly be interested in sending in the Queen's Guard to enforce her claims. Whereas I'm sure the people from the Two Rivers would be suitably impressed by a Queen, and would be very hospitable, but would also still intend to be independent. As it is, that independence gets all a bit confused as Jordan has them falling over themselves to install a Lord as soon as the idea is even slightly mentioned. It is definitely a weak point in the story - or a claim that people, deep down in their bones, all want an unelected person to grow rich off their labour, and be unable to organise their own society without one.