Is it bad for WOT if LOTR is a huge success?

[Dagon Thyne]

If LOTR is a major success, it could mean that Amazon would be willing to be less restrictive in future seasons of the WOT.  Give them more episodes, more money, etc.  One of the reasons why they had to cut so much and rewrite the story so much is because they had limited time especially with numerous Covid-ralted rewrites.  

[DojoToad]

8 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

If LOTR is a major success, it could mean that Amazon would be willing to be less restrictive in future seasons of the WOT.  Give them more episodes, more money, etc.  One of the reasons why they had to cut so much and rewrite the story so much is because they had limited time especially with numerous Covid-ralted rewrites.  

I would think they were limited by both number of episodes and money before COVID was a factor.  Barney leaving and COVID required unexpected re-writes, but would bet that Rafe and company knew they only had 8 hours and 10 million per episode way before they shot the first episode.  Didn't like it, but they knew.

Edited September 9, 2022 by DojoToad

[notpropaganda73]

I quite enjoyed Episode 3, still very uneven and I was bored at times but it was a big improvement from the previous two episodes. Pretty cool to see Numenor realised on screen. Episode 3 has me more interested to watch episode 4, whereas the opening 2 episodes were very "meh" and I only really tuned in because I love Tolkien. 

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I quite enjoyed Episode 3, still very uneven and I was bored at times but it was a big improvement from the previous two episodes. Pretty cool to see Numenor realised on screen. Episode 3 has me more interested to watch episode 4, 

Agreed. Arondir's plotline is the most interesting so far.

 

Funny to see so many actors from the Spartacus-series in this episode. I saw Naevia (The Queen of Numenor), Marcus Crassus(elf slave) and Barca("drill sergeant" of the Numenor soldiers/sailors). I'm pretty sure it was him.

[notpropaganda73]

7 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Agreed. Arondir's plotline is the most interesting so far.

 

Yes I think so too. I find myself wishing they had eliminated at least one of the plot threads they started in the first two episodes in order to give more focus to Arondir and Galadriel (who I think needs fleshed out even though I still find how they have written the character irritating). 

[Therese Sedai]

Like many others I’ve also found Galadriel to be difficult to like but in this last episode it occurred to me that the point that was made in episode 2 about Elrond disappearing on Durin for 20 years is likely meant to draw our attention not only to how Elves experience time but also how they learn, grow, and age as a result of that experience. 
 

Galadriel is still barely a young adult by elven standards and like any young adult she struggles to navigate the world with the same wisdom, patience, and tact that comes with age. I’m feeling quite confident that the writing will be solid enough to impart that sense of growth as the show matures so that we’ll begin to see glimpses of the Galadriel we’ve already met in the third age. 

[Chivalry]

12 hours ago, Therese Sedai said:

Like many others I’ve also found Galadriel to be difficult to like but in this last episode it occurred to me that the point that was made in episode 2 about Elrond disappearing on Durin for 20 years is likely meant to draw our attention not only to how Elves experience time but also how they learn, grow, and age as a result of that experience. 
 

Galadriel is still barely a young adult by elven standards and like any young adult she struggles to navigate the world with the same wisdom, patience, and tact that comes with age. I’m feeling quite confident that the writing will be solid enough to impart that sense of growth as the show matures so that we’ll begin to see glimpses of the Galadriel we’ve already met in the third age. 

 

I agree, her character is very difficult to like at this point, but I see what they're doing. 

 

I've actually found it much easier to enjoy this series as I have no preconceptions and recognize that these are different/younger iterations of the characters we know from the LOTR books and films.

[DojoToad]

Like the nod to capoeira in episode 3.  Not liking the Ewok vibe from the hobbits.

 

So much easier to like RoP as I know little of the background.

[mogi68]

I'm having a hard time overlooking all the issues with the timeline in this show. Isildur is alive and the rings haven't even been forged yet? What? In the text he's born like 1600 years after the One Ring is made.

 

It's as much of a mess lore-wise as WOT season 1 was. Probably worse

Edited September 12, 2022 by mogi68

[SinisterDeath]

43 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

I'm having a hard time overlooking all the issues with the timeline in this show. Isildur is alive and the rings haven't even been forged yet? What? In the text he's born like 1600 years after the One Ring is made.
It's as much of a mess lore-wise as WOT season 1 was. Probably worse

How important to the lore is it, that they were crafted 1600 years before the person that ultimately cuts off Sauron's finger was born?

They could do the time-skip thing with Elves in the past, and men/hobbits in the present and work their way forward, but audiences hate confusing timelines. *cough* Season 1 of the Witcher *cough*

Ultimately, they're dealing with 6000+ years of history, and they have to condense that into 8 episodes, in a way that is enjoyable and not a snooze fest like "The Silmarillion".

Dunno about you, but I'd hate to watch the "Rings of Power" WW2 History Channel style.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, mogi68 said:

I'm having a hard time overlooking all the issues with the timeline in this show. Isildur is alive and the rings haven't even been forged yet? What? In the text he's born like 1600 years after the One Ring is made.

 

It's as much of a mess lore-wise as WOT season 1 was. Probably worse

It has many of the same issues as WoT - but somehow it doesn't hurt as much.  I find myself overlooking  stuff that drove me crazy in WoT.  Don't think it is because RoP is doing anything better but distance from the source material and maybe having gone through all the frustration and breast-beating so recently, I just don't have the energy to fight another battle.  Or maybe I just learned a little something...

[expat]

Quote

How important to the lore is it, that they were crafted 1600 years before the person that ultimately cuts off Sauron's finger was born?

I've only watched the first episode and felt it slow and more filler than plot, but things like Isildur being born 1600+ years early is pretty important lore wise.  The major source of friction between the elves and humans (as well as their respective treatment by the Valar) was the fact that elves were immortal and human were somehow "gifted" when they died.  If (the elite) humans were living for such extreme lifespans, the whole interspecies dynamics would be vastly different. I understand that the source material said that humans lived longer in the beginning and their life span decreased over the years, but not anywhere near this degree.

 

I'm not sure what WOT lore was this far out of kilter.  The Dragon ended up being a male (even with the false narrative feints about possible women Dragons).  Other changes were on the individual level and didn't have the vast scope of humans living for thousands of years in Middle Earth.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, expat said:

If (the elite) humans were living for such extreme lifespans, the whole interspecies dynamics would be vastly different. I understand that the source material said that humans lived longer in the beginning and their life span decreased over the years, but not anywhere near this degree.

They aren't changing it so the Humans live 1600+ years, or only 90.

What they're doing is condensing events that unfolded over ~3000 years, into 8 episodes, and who knows how many seasons. The bulk of this season is meant to fit within a single human life span.

We'll probably get the rings of power being created, Galadriel being led on a wild goose chase, the destruction of Numenor, leading to the drums of war as the season finale.

 

 

2 hours ago, expat said:

The major source of friction between the elves and humans (as well as their respective treatment by the Valar) was the fact that elves were immortal and human were somehow "gifted" when they died.

We have a seen with Elrond talking with Durin, literally chastising him for being a horrible friend because he blinked 20 years of his "friends" life away.

Humans are at Elves throats all through-out Episode 2 & 3 for a variety of reasons...

[CaddySedai]

@SinisterDeath

 

Id watch the history channel version

[SinisterDeath]

55 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

@SinisterDeath

 

Id watch the history channel version

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Says an administrator of a book series fan site *wink*

[DojoToad]

7 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

@SinisterDeath

 

Id watch the history channel version

Until I found out they messed it up...

 

😉

[Dagon Thyne]

On 9/9/2022 at 7:48 AM, DojoToad said:

I would think they were limited by both number of episodes and money before COVID was a factor.  Barney leaving and COVID required unexpected re-writes, but would bet that Rafe and company knew they only had 8 hours and 10 million per episode way before they shot the first episode.  Didn't like it, but they knew.

 To be fair Barney leaving was related to covid he left because he did not want to get a vaccine which was mandatory for all cast and crew.   That's why they simply let him out of his contract it is contract they couldn't force him to take the vaccine against his will though they just said take it or go home.

[DojoToad]

16 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 To be fair Barney leaving was related to covid he left because he did not want to get a vaccine which was mandatory for all cast and crew.   That's why they simply let him out of his contract it is contract they couldn't force him to take the vaccine against his will though they just said take it or go home.

I understand that Barney leaving put them in a tough spot.

 

My main point is that Rafe and company knew their budget and running time before they started shooting.

 

COVID complicated life for everyone.

[Skipp]

25 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 To be fair Barney leaving was related to covid he left because he did not want to get a vaccine which was mandatory for all cast and crew.   That's why they simply let him out of his contract it is contract they couldn't force him to take the vaccine against his will though they just said take it or go home.

Is this actually confirmed because I don't believe there has been any official word on why he left.  This reasoning seems probable but I don't think we know and we probably shouldn't speculate too much.

 

 

[DojoToad]

22 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Is this actually confirmed because I don't believe there has been any official word on why he left.  This reasoning seems probable but I don't think we know and we probably shouldn't speculate too much.

 

 

That's the most popular theory - and does make sense given the times, but I have not seen anything definitive as to why Barney left or was booted.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

That's the most popular theory - and does make sense given the times, but I have not seen anything definitive as to why Barney left or was booted.

Yeah, it's an unsubstantiated rumor. 

One that was oft circulated by right-wing media outlets & groups attempting to push the narrative that the WoT Production was overly Woke, and forced out a brilliant actor over refusal to get vaccinated against Covid. You know, the vaccine a lot of those groups think is a hoax. 😉 

Light I hate the stupid politics people make up.
Back in my day, if we disliked a show, we changed the channel. 😄

[DojoToad]

15 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Yeah, it's an unsubstantiated rumor. 

One that was oft circulated by right-wing media outlets & groups attempting to push the narrative that the WoT Production was overly Woke, and forced out a brilliant actor over refusal to get vaccinated against Covid. You know, the vaccine a lot of those groups think is a hoax. 😉 

Light I hate the stupid politics people make up.
Back in my day, if we disliked a show, we changed the channel. 😄

What right-wing media was defending Barney from our woke Overlords?

[SinisterDeath]

17 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

What right-wing media was defending Barney from our woke Overlords?

Plethora of right-wing YouTubers (media) were blasting Amazon and WoTV show fans over the article smallscreen pushed out.

It was probably mentioned on Fox News or OAN (or their respective Twitters) 9 months ago, but I don't have the time or energy to go hunting for that crud.

I simply remember when that crap was blasted across social media, and it was used as an example of the "woke liberal elite being fascist", and I just don't care enough to entertain or argue against those with that mindset.

[CaddySedai]

Which is weird because the show is being criticized for being run by the woke...

 

So would one not revel in that which you oppose eating itself?

 

But I digress, if our boi Barney wants to keep it mum, then it is mum.