General Season 2 Leaks thread

[Skipp]

I didn't want to keep adding this articles to the articles thread for people who don't want spoilers so here is a General S2 leak thread!.

 

Wotseries has transcribed another leaked audition tape.  This one for Gawyn or possibly Galad.

 

https://www.wotseries.com/2022/06/22/scoop-gawyn-audition-tape-uncovered/

 

Quote

"I know what people see when they look at me: rich, beautiful, useless idiot."

They have really nailed Gawyn's arc here.

 

He does specifically mention his brother so that should confirm we are getting both of the boys.  I am kinda excited to see what they do with Gawyn.

[Nik]

I'm intrigued by the connection they're making with Moiraine and the Damodred family. We know season 2 will dig deeper into Moiraine's backstory so it'll be interesting to see how they tie that into the other characters' arcs.

[Skipp]

Someone mentioned that the 2nd reading almost fits Mat to a tee.  Change brother to friend and it really works.  Maybe this actor auditioned or the recasting of Mat as well.

[Mailman]

Not overly thrilled by those 2 snippets i know they are small but again it looks like we are departing from the books again.

 

but my mum, she said it wasn’t that. She said it was because [Ishamael] was one of these men who needed others to be weak to make himself strong. And I was, too.

 

So Morgase is now telling her son that he is weak and worse that he need others to be brought down to make himself strong. This feels so wrong for these characters.

 

???: [Damodred]. As in [Moiraine Damodred]?
Gawyn: The aunt who ruined my life.

 

And now Moiraine has somehow ruined the crown prince of Andors life.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Mailman

[Nik]

I think it's safe to assume season 2 will continue to have major changes from the books. Otherwise you're setting yourself up to be disappointed every time something's revealed.

[Mailman]

6 minutes ago, Nik said:

I think it's safe to assume season 2 will continue to have major changes from the books. Otherwise you're setting yourself up to be disappointed every time something's revealed.

There a difference from following the framework and making small changes to what they have done.

 

Changing Morgase to the point that she tells her son that he suffers from the same sin that one of the forsaken does is a complete obliteration of the character from the book.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, Nik said:

I think it's safe to assume season 2 will continue to have major changes from the books. Otherwise you're setting yourself up to be disappointed every time something's revealed.

Changes big and small don’t bother me. For example:

• Logain getting more time up front helps show the problem with male channelers 
• Egwene and Rand having a sexual relationship raises the stakes for when they figure out that the relationship won’t work
• Mat and his family not being upstanding citizens takes the Pollyanna feel off the Two Rivers

All good things in my opinion. Not expected but worked well for me.

 

It is the bad or unnecessary changes (big and small) that make the show hard to watch.  Different for everyone…

[Nik]

10 hours ago, Mailman said:

There a difference from following the framework and making small changes to what they have done.

 

Changing Morgase to the point that she tells her son that he suffers from the same sin that one of the forsaken does is a complete obliteration of the character from the book.

 

Well that's my point, I think we can expect changes to characterization to continue to happen for secondary characters especially. They're going to keep doing it in order to help them tell the story they're trying to tell in the manner they're trying to tell it. Secondary characters are especially likely to be altered in order to streamline and accelerate the arcs of more central characters.

 

Like how they made major changes to Abell and Natti Cauthon's characters in order to further Mat's arc. I wouldn't be surprised if they make equally major changes to Morgase's character in order to further Gawyn's arc. I'm not saying you have to like it (and I can obviously see why you wouldn't). I'm saying it should be expected, and that there will be more like this going forward.

 

[Nik]

9 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Changes big and small don’t bother me. For example:

• Logain getting more time up front helps show the problem with male channelers 
• Egwene and Rand having a sexual relationship raises the stakes for when they figure out that the relationship won’t work
• Mat and his family not being upstanding citizens takes the Pollyanna feel off the Two Rivers

All good things in my opinion. Not expected but worked well for me.

 

It is the bad or unnecessary changes (big and small) that make the show hard to watch.  Different for everyone…

 

Agreed it's different for everyone and it's totally understandable if it doesn't end up working for you. Some things in the show didn't work for me either.

[Mailman]

On 6/25/2022 at 11:09 PM, Nik said:

 

Well that's my point, I think we can expect changes to characterization to continue to happen for secondary characters especially. They're going to keep doing it in order to help them tell the story they're trying to tell in the manner they're trying to tell it. Secondary characters are especially likely to be altered in order to streamline and accelerate the arcs of more central characters.

 

Like how they made major changes to Abell and Natti Cauthon's characters in order to further Mat's arc. I wouldn't be surprised if they make equally major changes to Morgase's character in order to further Gawyn's arc. I'm not saying you have to like it (and I can obviously see why you wouldn't). I'm saying it should be expected, and that there will be more like this going forward.

 

But what does that say about the arc they are planning for Gawyn and by default Elayne and Galad. 

 

In the books Morgase is wise, loving and just until she is under compulsion. And once free she reverts back to this.

 

The leak script paints her as basically abusive. Its the same as if your mother constantly talked about Hitler and then said that he just like you suffered from this character flaw. Remember the forsaken are used to scare children like bogeymen. Is Morgase going to be a terrible leader of Andor now. Would Gawyn really be almost broken by her loss. Would Elayne really become the same character with this as her role model.

 

 

[king of nowhere]

well, they made mat's parents to be bad, maybe they'll do the same for morgase. they'll probably have some justification in terms of character arcs. and no, maybe gawin won't be as broken by her loss, and he won't have his whiny phase where he decided he had to kill rand and just be a pointless character. Maybe gawyn can be useful for a change.

and frankly, with all the great women spending so much time being great and overshadowing anyone else, a bad role model would be refreshing 😂

 

on a more general level, they already made so many changes in S1 that, even if they committed to changing nothing else, they'd still have to change a lot because parts of the book plot would not make sense anymore. and they have to invent some role for moiraine, if they injected her story into the royal house of andor - to which she is actually related, moiraine is elayne's aunt - they may have created some plot there.

Edited June 27, 2022 by king of nowhere

[Nik]

12 hours ago, Mailman said:

But what does that say about the arc they are planning for Gawyn and by default Elayne and Galad. 

 

In the books Morgase is wise, loving and just until she is under compulsion. And once free she reverts back to this.

 

The leak script paints her as basically abusive. Its the same as if your mother constantly talked about Hitler and then said that he just like you suffered from this character flaw. Remember the forsaken are used to scare children like bogeymen. Is Morgase going to be a terrible leader of Andor now. Would Gawyn really be almost broken by her loss. Would Elayne really become the same character with this as her role model.

 

 

 

Yes, it definitely looks like they're making Morgase a less than stellar mom and giving Gawyn more childhood trauma to navigate. I can't speak to the ripple effects because it's still unclear to me what they intend, just that they're not doing this haphazardly. They have a goal, we just don't know what yet.

 

Like I said, you don't have to like it. I'm not trying to justify it, just saying they're doing it deliberately and will keep doing it with more characters in the future. So whether you like or hate it, be prepared for more, because it WILL come.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Nik

[DojoToad]

I for one am glad they chose to make several characters less than upstanding citizens - more realistic.  In Morgase's case - I never really bought how much people turned against her (and Elayne) when she was under compulsion.  I understand some of it, but if she had been such a great queen before Rahvin showed up, then why wouldn't they place the blame on him rather than her.  Years of great rule followed by a few months of bad and everyone is on the anti-Morgase train.  Now if she had made some bad decisions and was just overall not a great queen before Rahvin - then I could see the sentiment going strongly against her once the compulsion kicked in.

[SinisterDeath]

5 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I for one am glad they chose to make several characters less than upstanding citizens - more realistic.  In Morgase's case - I never really bought how much people turned against her (and Elayne) when she was under compulsion.  I understand some of it, but if she had been such a great queen before Rahvin showed up, then why wouldn't they place the blame on him rather than her.  Years of great rule followed by a few months of bad and everyone is on the anti-Morgase train.  Now if she had made some bad decisions and was just overall not a great queen before Rahvin - then I could see the sentiment going strongly against her once the compulsion kicked in.

In book 1, when Rand & Mat are at the Queen's Blessing, there's a whole thing about which color armband you wear. One meant you were pro queen, and another meant... pro white cloak? (I think)

Point being, there was definitely some discontent in Andor even before Rahvin.
Once Rahvin got into it, it wouldn't be hard to put every bad thing on the queen. Every order came from the queen not Rahvin. After all, he could spin the narrative that he was trying his best to stop her bad decisions...

[SilentRoamer]

44 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

In book 1, when Rand & Mat are at the Queen's Blessing, there's a whole thing about which color armband you wear. One meant you were pro queen, and another meant... pro white cloak? (I think)
 

 

Yeah this is about right. Those with Red sashes/armbands are those who support the Queen but also they support Tar Valon (at this point Morgase is one of the few rulers that openly has Aes Sedai Advisors). Those with White are those who do not support the Queen and do not support Tar Valon (although it doesnt mean they follow the Children of the Light). There does happen to be an overlap between those who wear White and those who support the Children but the wearing of White isn't described as being support for the Children - just a rejection of Morgase and Aes Sedai. 

Rand (due to being Ta'veren) picks the Red sash - that small act of a 50/50 chance has a huge impact on how things play out for Rand in both the Palace Garden and also with his meeting with Morgase. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by SilentRoamer

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

In book 1, when Rand & Mat are at the Queen's Blessing, there's a whole thing about which color armband you wear. One meant you were pro queen, and another meant... pro white cloak? (I think)

Point being, there was definitely some discontent in Andor even before Rahvin.
Once Rahvin got into it, it wouldn't be hard to put every bad thing on the queen. Every order came from the queen not Rahvin. After all, he could spin the narrative that he was trying his best to stop her bad decisions...

Yes, I remember that.  But I always thought of that as Morgase and Andor versus Andor over Tar Valon.

 

That aside, I was thinking more of the Great Families than the 'commoners' running through the streets shouting 'red or white'.  Then again the Great Families probably saw an opportunity when Morgase continued to fumble.  Grab the power for themselves.

[DaddyFinn]

25 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Then again the Great Families probably saw an opportunity when Morgase continued to fumble.  Grab the power for themselves.

This and the fact that Morgase publicly shamed some of them and even had at least one of her closest friends flocked(?). 

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, SilentRoamer said:

Those with White are those who do not support the Queen and do not support Tar Valon (although it doesnt mean they follow the Children of the Light). There does happen to be an overlap between those who wear White and those who support the Children but the wearing of White isn't described as being support for the Children - just a rejection of Morgase and Aes Sedai. 

Thanks for the clarification. My memory was fuzzy on the sashes, as the last time it came up was due to it's lack in Season 1. 😉 

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

This and the fact that Morgase publicly shamed some of them and even had at least one of her closest friends flocked(?). 

Flogged

[Andra]

6 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I for one am glad they chose to make several characters less than upstanding citizens - more realistic.  In Morgase's case - I never really bought how much people turned against her (and Elayne) when she was under compulsion.  I understand some of it, but if she had been such a great queen before Rahvin showed up, then why wouldn't they place the blame on him rather than her.  Years of great rule followed by a few months of bad and everyone is on the anti-Morgase train.  Now if she had made some bad decisions and was just overall not a great queen before Rahvin - then I could see the sentiment going strongly against her once the compulsion kicked in.

Aside from the questions of her support of Tar Valon, she also had a history of taking very public, very foolish actions involving romantic relationships.

As no one would have had any idea that Compulsion was even a possibility - much less that her newest lover was actually one of the Forsaken - it would have been seen at first as simply being more of her letting her emotions make her crazy.

[Mailman]

 

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

In book 1, when Rand & Mat are at the Queen's Blessing, there's a whole thing about which color armband you wear. One meant you were pro queen, and another meant... pro white cloak? (I think)

Point being, there was definitely some discontent in Andor even before Rahvin.
Once Rahvin got into it, it wouldn't be hard to put every bad thing on the queen. Every order came from the queen not Rahvin. After all, he could spin the narrative that he was trying his best to stop her bad decisions...

There was also the massive issue of the lingering winter which was causing people to go hungry and causing massive price rises.

[DojoToad]

8 hours ago, Mailman said:

 

There was also the massive issue of the lingering winter which was causing people to go hungry and causing massive price rises.

It's the Dragon's fault.  Inflation is the Queen's top priority.  Nothing to see here...

[deathgate]

On 6/27/2022 at 4:01 PM, Andra said:

Aside from the questions of her support of Tar Valon, she also had a history of taking very public, very foolish actions involving romantic relationships.

As no one would have had any idea that Compulsion was even a possibility - much less that her newest lover was actually one of the Forsaken - it would have been seen at first as simply being more of her letting her emotions make her crazy.

 

Well of course the commoners were all distraught when she dumped Thom 😁

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, deathgate said:

 

Well of course the commoners were all distraught when she dumped Thom 😁

He was a man of the people.

[Andra]

5 hours ago, deathgate said:

 

Well of course the commoners were all distraught when she dumped Thom 😁

It's not so much that they weree distraught (though clearly they were 😉) it's that she let her emotions get out of control when she did.  In ways that reminded everyone how young she was, and how foolish she could let herself be.

With that kind of history, her behavior with "Lord Gaebril" didn't make anyone immediately think something was wrong.  It was just her losing her head again.